Suppose so David

If you want someone to call you a traitor or accuse you of hating Britain, try suggesting that Britain is a normal nation or that our history is remarkable but not exceptional. If you’re feeling really thick-skinned, you could also mention slavery or the violence of empire.

Everyone else had slavery too…..

36 thoughts on “Suppose so David”

  1. Britain does not want to be “re-born” as a multi-culti shithole.

    Another dark continental offers his unwanted bullshit opinions.

    Slavery is esp piss boiling since Africa was a slavers paradise from time immemorial. From the Egyptian/Nubian capers with the “miserable (black) people of Cush” to the Romans to the RoP which has been at the slavery game for 1400 years and has done 10 times the damage of the Atlantic trade at a minimum. Most slaves for that trade were enslaved by black leaders and tribal foes and sold to the white men who stayed in coastal forts as the diseases of the interior killed them. Only in agit-prop like the old ROOTS series ( mild compared to today’s openly Marxist lies) do we see a bunch of tri-corn hatted whites –assisted by blacks–actually throwing nets over blacks to be captured for slaves.

    Carl Benjamin has a You Tube about some Somali twat elected as MEP who is full of insolent advice as to how we should alter our ways.

    They can both fuck off. Along with any Gladrag reading trash who swallow their shite.

  2. Ted S, Catskill Mtns, NY, USA

    I presume one of the fantasies of the past being that the NHS is the wonder of the world?

  3. The phrase is “envy of the world” Ted.

    The NHS IS truly a “wonder of the world”. The world does wonder how and indeed why we put up with a worthless piece of socialistic crap that kills–each and every year–tens of thousands who might have lived if they had got decent care.

  4. Did you ever know someone mired in the negative? It is a poisonous trait.

    The attempt is to poison the West by concentrating on the negative, to generate public neurosis. Tell Olusoga to eat shit and die.

    On a technical note, he is engaging in presentism, judging the past by present mores. An effective tactic against today’s poorly educated public.

    Olusoga and his publisher the Guardian are overtly attempting to destroy Britain. Traitors. Ecks, prepare the gallows.

  5. “….. the Dutch for example, have managed to come to terms with the fact that their golden age kind of petered out.”

    We’re still waiting for that Sub-Saharan African ‘Golden Age’ David…..

  6. This week’s D-day commemorations will, I fear, help reinforce the idea that it was we “wot won it”, further marginalising the history of the Russians on the Eastern Front

    I suppose that if the Soviets had taken over all of Europe the that would have been A Good Thing.

  7. Britain can’t be reborn while we’re still lost in fantasies about the past
    by David Olusoga

    ‘We’, eh?

    Reminds me of the old joke about The Lone Ranger and Tonto meeting a tribe of bloodthirsty Apache.

    “Jiminy cricket! We’re in trouble, Tonto!”

    “Who’s ‘we’, paleface?”

    Why is it cultural appropriation and therefore raciss when Gordon Ramsay makes Warren Zevon a big dish of beef chow mein, but OK for Godfrey Elwick’s Nigerian cousin to lecture people whose ancestors have been here since midgets were dancing around comically undersized henges about who “we” are and what “we” should believe?

  8. Guessing from the name the gentleman is from west Africa. I would ask when the west Africans are going to compensate the descendants of those they enslaved and sold?

  9. DJ, the transmutation of the Soviets to the ‘Russians’ is in itself evil. He condemns Britain for its past, but is okay with Soviet mass murder.

  10. Tim’s failure to use a vocative comma in the title is a clear indication that we are descending into barbarism.

  11. Yes, we could mention slavery.

    We could cast our minds back to the efforts of the Royal Navy in the 19th Century, chasing down slave ships and freeing their cargoes, when Britain not merely abolished slavery but made determined efforts to stamp down hard on the trade. Thousands of sailors died, some in action, more of disease, in the effort, but 1,600 slave ships were intercepted and a quarter-million slaves liberated.

    Aren’t we British people just horrible folk for interfering with commerce like that?

    But I gather that historical facts like that are unfashionable…

  12. Empire and slavery are not the same thing ( In Africa). Until steam boats machine guns and quinine Africa was outside Western control .The European rush to carve up the interior was not until the end of the 19th century ,long after the abolition of slavery
    The slave trade was created not just by Europeans , who created a market,but also by the Africans who were the enslavers and transporters in the first leg of a brutal journey.
    In other words it was something strong did to the weak not something the white did to the black.

    I wonder sometimes if some idea of the good primitive lurks in this self loathing . Africa was not peaceful before it was conquered , it was tormented wars of unbelievable cruelty , the creation of the Zulu Empire is a story is stupendous bloodiness and genocide .

    So that’s the problem with asking one country to accept some sort of inherited guilt , absolutely no-one is innocent in this sense and certainly not the people who enjoy that sort of thing

  13. The full phrase is, I think, “the admiration of the world and the envy of surrounding nations” (Adam Smith).

  14. ‘…a normal nation or that our history is remarkable but not exceptional.’

    Britain created the largest trading empire the World has seen to date. It did so without any planned territorial aims, or by sending out vast armies of conquest like, for example, the Persians, Greeks, Romans, Spanish, Muslims.

    And withdrew from empire, without scorched earth, without violent conflict, leaving behind functioning, independent Nation States.

    It’s language is universal and around 50 nations have their constitutions and government systems based on the English/British constitution and system of Parliamentary democracy, concept of rule of law and legal and judicial system, 16 have the British Queen as Head of State.

    Right there, that is exceptional and certainly not ‘normal’.

  15. “. . . try suggesting that Britain[‘s] history is remarkable but not exceptional.”

    I suppose you could do that if you knew nothing about history.

  16. We all know that David Bongo Bongo does not think the UK is unremarkable, but rather evil and the worst place ever which is why we should give him lots of money.

    Fuck off you cunt.

  17. Hey guys, let’s try and stay smart.

    Olusoga seems to be copy-pasting a soft-left Remainer claim, that the UK is a statistically median country suffering from delusional self-importance. The argument boils down to, “look, you’re not significantly different from Germany, so if Germany’s cool with the next stage of European integration, you ought to be too. But you believe all this romantic Battle Of Britain stuff, and it’s that which stops you getting with the program we’ve prepared for you”.

    I think the argument is ridiculous.

    First, the concept of an average, “normal” country is meaningless. There are countries with less than 12,000 people, countries with over a billion people; landlocked countries, island countries, continent-spanning countries; countries brimming with natural resources, countries with barely any; you name it. Europe alone includes everything from San Marino to Russia. Would Olusoga consider Russia to be a “normal” or an “exceptional” country, for instance, and what would be the criteria he’d use to determine that?

    Second, every country is in a different physical location from every other country. This matters. The UK had a very different World War Two from Poland, for instance, largely because of its more fortunate physical location.

    The point is, different locations give different possibilities. Tiny Iceland has not joined the EU, not because they think they’re as important a country as the USA or China, but because they regard the cod around their island as theirs alone, and they don’t want to share fishing access to it with 27 other countries. If they were a landlocked country like Hungary, this wouldn’t be an issue. Similarly, Norway has not joined the EU, largely because they are Europe’s only major energy exporter (apart from Russia). If they joined, they might be subject to an EU energy policy which prioritised the interests of energy importers.

    Germany is situated in the middle of the North European Plain (NEP). Around half the population of the EU live on the NEP. In general, the more NEP-like your location, the more easily your country tends to adapt to EU-integrationist policies like the Single Currency. Mediterranean countries have generally adapted badly to it.

    The UK is the EU’s only large state with a primarily oceanic orientation. EEC/EU membership has required us to deny this, and pretend we live on the NEP. That’s why leaving the EU will enable us to see again what is particular about our island location, and what possibilities it offers us.

  18. The Pedant-General

    “The UK is the EU’s only large state with a primarily oceanic orientation. EEC/EU membership has required us to deny this, and pretend we live on the NEP. That’s why leaving the EU will enable us to see again what is particular about our island location, and what possibilities it offers us.”

    This. Just this.

  19. @Newmania June 2, 2019 at 2:26 pm

    Agree.

    That’s your second sensible post; iirc other one was a Sunday too. Is Sunday your day off from being a paid EU/Soros troll?

  20. Yes, we could mention slavery and the Barbary pirates who raided the southern coast of England to enslave Britons. We could also mention the piece of judicial activism that declared that any slave brought into England from another country (such as the self-styled ‘land of the free’) was automatically entitled to his freedom.
    I do not know when slavery was abolished in England but is centuries back from definition of “time immemorial”.
    Let’s talk about slavery and slavery-free England from Saxon times onwards and blacks enslaving blacks and Arabs enslaving blacks well into the twentieth century and TE Lawrence writing about Arabs and their slaves in “Seven Pillars of Wisdom” (in many cases the slaves seem to have had higher status than their masters’ servants) and Americans buying slaves in the nineteenth century and Thomas Jefferson.

  21. “It wasn’t the bloody QE2!”

    My ancestors came over in the cargo hold of a sailing ship. As did most European settlers.

  22. If you’re feeling really thick-skinned, you could also mention slavery or the violence of empire.

    I don’t mind them mentioning that – it’s that they deliberately suppress slavery and violence from nearly everyone else in the world at the same time. Their opinions and criticisms are dishonest, political and, yes, treasonous.

  23. erm.. David makes the assumption that it is the continental multi national land empires of the past that represent the model to aspire to. Is he going to say why pointing out a maritime empire made up of many nations that ‘happily kicked us out’ was flawed but the Prussian, French, Russian, Austrian, Ottoman examples are the way to go? Or is it that history doesn’t apply to the modern eurostate enthusiast but is reserved for criticising (more like pooh pooh ing) the modern independent state enthusiast?

    One thing David is right about, opposing independence can be patriotic if its in the nation’s interest. But,… but you have to make that case. Just scoffing at the word buccaneering and then countering with ‘slavery’ is a bizarre non argument. .
    Don’t get me wrong the nation’s interest its not fixed, certainly up for debate, and subject to all sorts of misconceptions and contradictions, but still. It certainly is unpatriotic if you don’t count ‘nation’ as a unit to which to which the word ‘interest’ can be applied.

  24. georgesdelatour,

    “The point is, different locations give different possibilities.”

    This is something most people don’t grasp. One effect of being in Great Britain as an island is that in terms of physical trade, there’s considerable friction to do physical trade outside and some of that is flat. There’s costs to getting a shipping container on and off a boat that are rather flat, whether you’re going 20 miles across the channel or thousands of miles to Shanghai. Same with meeting clients. If you fly to Amsterdam, you’re only in the air for about 45 minutes, but there’s hours of ballache getting to and from the airport. And you’re going to pay for that flight. You pretty much lose a day, at which point, how much more is it in total costs to see clients in New York?

    I think it’s why we’ve become so good at selling things that have less emphasis on shipping: virtual goods, IP, high value physical goods. It allows you to compete better. But once you’ve done that, shipping to the rest of the world is just as easy as the EU.

  25. Everybody esle has slaves as well.

    But we were the only ones that spent blood and treasure to end it across half the world.

  26. @BoM4
    +1

    And sea borders are fixed (-ish, on human timescales) and readily defensible, while land borders are fluid (Alsace ‘moved’ countries 4 times in 75 years) and inevitably porous. Most continentals don’t think of this (why should they?) until you point it out to them.

  27. Chris Miller,

    Yes. If you go to the Alsace, it’s a mix of French and German. Waitresses in restaurants flip between the two languages, the architecture is very much German.

  28. Try the Sud Tyrol as well. In Italy. Common language is German. Geography matters

    The slave trade was a global thing but the Marxists hate Britain even if they are British for being a trading nation and free market based. The US is too hard to kill so they are going for the weaker member of the Anglo-Saxon group. That said they are trying hard to kill Australia as well.

  29. ‘Alsace’ has been populated by Germanic people for millennia. It has more claim to be German than French.

  30. This is just part of the ‘cultural humility’ stuff that seems to be growing
    Basically I should be ashamed of my white patriarchal empire background and celebrate the local peaceful earth loving hamronistic culture.
    Seems to be shades of the ‘noble savage’ stuff repeated in a more PC leftie woke manner

  31. @BoM4
    They’re speaking Alsatian (no, really). You don’t have to travel far before you come upon “Elsass Frei” graffiti.

    The war memorials in Alsace are interesting (I was there for Remembrance Day, once). Typical French ones read “Morts pour la Patrie”, but of course most Alsatians were fighting for the Kaiser.

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