Johnson’s team accused of skullduggery after Michael Gove knocked out by narrow margin

Tactical voting is skullduggery now? You know, like the admonitions to vote Green, or Lib Dem, or anyone but Tory, in a seat Labor can’t win?

29 thoughts on “Whut?”

  1. The Left always assumes the new rules it demands should never apply to them. It’s how you realise they merely want power and no higher purpose

  2. Beats me how you could call this Johnson team skullduggery. The implication is that 4 votes shifted from Javid to Johnson but one previous Johnson voter shifted to Hunt to keep out Gove. But how could they be certain the Hunt lead was in the range 0>1? Skullduggery would be to use several votes out of Johnson’s considerable lead & make certain.

  3. What utter nonsense. MPs can change their minds quite freely, and at any point. They are not “owned” by any team, and particularly if they haven’t even declared for a candidate.

  4. Skullduggery, eh?

    At least it wasn’t humbuggery, shenanigans, or – perish the thought – hanky panky.

  5. @ PF
    And I can well imagine the confidence one politician might have in another politician’s declared voting intentions.
    1/∞ would seem a high estimate

  6. Consider also that there will be MPs whose primary objectives are negative more than positive (Boris attracts his fair share).

    It was only at the “final three” that Gove first edged ahead of Hunt, ie Gove was more seriously in contention. That’s enough to focus any ABGs at that point (whether for Sajid or Boris prior to that).

    Even it was Boris himself what done it….

  7. Non issue really; you could only knock out your least preferred final oppo if you were winning by miles anyway Nope we are stuck with albino Bunter I fear and i am already enjoying it –

    No umm.,.. ok with GATT 24 or something – he said – quite crucial this actually and he is wrong.
    Both the UK and the EU would have to reach an agreement about going into a GATT ( or whatever it might be) 24 interim period.
    In fact they’d also need to agree on what the “plan and schedule” for the final deal would look like.
    Otherwise some absurd rogue state could leave a trade block, ignore its rules, and force it to deal with them on the old basis by inventing some absurd Fairy Tale in the garden shed.

    I feel the phrase ” Blond moment” needs to be rehabilitated in time for the election ( which is coming v soon)

  8. The press is a fucking joke now. At one time, they were grown ups who knew this shit went on. Part of the game. Now, they feign horror. Everything the tories do is evil. And it’s obvious to everyone. And nearly all of them: BBC, ITV, C4, Guardian.

    Let’s bring on an Imam to ask Boris a question. Because sure, that’s super representative of the British public. Couldn’t bring on a car mechanic, or a woman working on a call centre to ask a question about tax, or foreign aid. Had to be an Imam asking about Islamophobia, just to highlight that Boris is a wascist. Is there anyone who can’t see through this stuff?

  9. Now, they feign horror. Everything the tories do is evil.

    Apart from Fantasy World Rory, who sadly died on the way back to his home planet.

  10. @BIS
    I think the argument is that they know that at least 4 people declared they were shifting to Johnson yet there was only a net change of 3, then something odd has happened.

    It’s unlikely that all the people who shifted to Johnson were public about it, there probably were other people we don’t know about who also shifted to Johnson. Therefore multiple Johnson supporters ‘lied’ on the ballot when they voted for who their preferred leader is. (Alternative explanation one of the people who declared moving to Johnson lied/changed their mind and no other people did switch to Johnson)

  11. @Newmania
    All your arguments are predicated on the EU having the negotiating advantage. It doesn’t. It runs a sizeable trade surplus with the UK. Any interference with trade is going to hurt EU nations a lot harder than the UK. The EU countries aren’t even the UK’s largest trading partner.
    Yesterday’s Project Fear topic. EU has put a block on Swiss stockmarkets. Ergo it’ll do the same to London. Who cares? London’s the world’s premier financial centre. So a few City jobs are lost. So what? The EU countries lose the value of London’s financial services. Access to investment capital. That’s the big number of which the charge London makes for the services is the trivial one. It’s not even a given. World finance is all interconnected. It’s just as likely that wherever the EU’s alternative source of capital comes from, it originated on London’s markets. & the EU’s just paying an extra cut to an intermediary.
    The EU Commission starts fucking over the EU nations on trade, how long do you think they’re going to sit still for it? With their exporting companies screaming blue murder. The EU’s already heading into a recession. Do you know what unemployment where I am is now? French? Italian? That’s the sort of thing puts skids under governments.
    The incentive for the UK to get a deal is that sitting offshore of an EU in economic & political meltdown ain’t going to be pretty. All the reason to hold the EU’s negotiators’ feet to the fire. What should have been happening all along….

  12. Ok Bloke in Spain – the average amount of trade an EU country does with the UK is 8% of its trade in 2018 54.2% of UK exports by value were delivered to other European trade partners (46.6% going to European Union members) but the 54% is almost entirely EEA members
    Yes the City better equipped than most industries given its sheer scale (amazing then that it has been under direct attack form the numpties since 2016) Nonetheless its position as the centre of European Banking and Insurance is being lost as we speak.
    No there is no loss of EU access you idiot, Banks are re locating functions on shore-
    Finally, your blood curdling threat to start a trade war and the likely result , which was the theory in 2016 has been proven to be a big fat lie already, watch the news. The EU is much more important than a minor export market and in any case Europe believes in EU , perhaps its 50 years of peace growth and what not . .who can say.
    I appreciate there are people who think your tract of ill digested ignorance is a “point of view” or an “opinion”
    It is in fact just tiresome crap

  13. I think, BIS, that the root problem is that it is difficult to negotiate with someone who has no skin in the game. Short of bankrupting an entire continent, an EU Commissioner has no concern of the economic effects of their stance on negotiations.

  14. @Bom4

    My thought about these TV ‘debates’ being put forward by the MSM broadcasters was (is) that they are *only* being produced in order to provide a bank of fodder for future use against anyone in ’em. Not to enlighten the public.

    The BBC is now so blatant about it: it didn’t really try to hide the thinking and fixing behind those oh-so-normal people they piped into the ‘debate’.

    I still can’t *quite* bring myself to stop paying the TV tax though. Antiques Roadshow, Only Connect, Uni Challenge I still wanna watch – although I know they’re not really worth £140 or whatever it is. Bah – the bastards have me, dammit.

  15. @Newmania
    Why do you accuse the UK of starting a trade war when it’s the EU negotiators threatening a trade war? Or is it that in the Remainer handbook the EU must automatically be in the right?

    It depends on whether you think the EU people, who do have skin in the game, will quietly take the hit. There’s not much evidence of that. The French government’s running scared of it’s own people over its own policies intended benefit France. You think it’ll sacrifice its electoral chances (with Marine sniffing at its heels) to back some negotiators in Brussels? That’s all she needs, isn’t it? Macron demonstrably favouring the EU over French interests. She’s skin them alive.

  16. @Newmania

    What’s the source of your numbers? The “European trade partners” seems very high at 7.8% of UK exports. The rest of the EEA + Switzerland is about 4.2% according to the ONS, which isn’t surprising given the size of their economies. Even adding in Turkey (part of the Customs Union) only adds about 1%. The ONS numbers also show slightly lower numbers for the EU.

  17. Marine has dropped leaving the EU as an objective , it has gained about 20% in popularity as a consequence of having a ringside seat whilst dumbo in the corner make themselves poor.

    The EU did not start anything ,it is a club, we left bit , we do not get to use the gym- simple

    Give me strength !!!!

  18. Marine isn’t interested in the EU one way or the other. She’s interested in being President of France. If she can get that by screwing the EU, she will. Trust me. I have friends in NR.Lille’s big NR territory..

    It’s not a club. It’s a business arrangement.. And the UK is withdrawing under the terms of the agreement. The EU is trying to insist on penalty clauses in an agreement didn’t have them.

  19. Lockers,

    “My thought about these TV ‘debates’ being put forward by the MSM broadcasters was (is) that they are *only* being produced in order to provide a bank of fodder for future use against anyone in ’em. Not to enlighten the public.”

    Absolutely. Boris was wise to avoid the C4 one. Total waste of time anyway as most right-wing Conservatives wouldn’t watch that drivel anyway.

    “I still can’t *quite* bring myself to stop paying the TV tax though. Antiques Roadshow, Only Connect, Uni Challenge I still wanna watch – although I know they’re not really worth £140 or whatever it is. Bah – the bastards have me, dammit.”

    I only pay because my wife watches a few shows. I’d cancel it tomorrow, otherwise.

    I’ve really stopped watching any TV” because once I started watching Amazon, Netflix and YouTube, I just got out of the habit of looking at Freeview listings. So, maybe there’s something I’d like, but I’m not checking.

    But the odd time I dip in, it takes me a very short time to realise I’m wasting my time. It’s not even that it’s proggy that I hate. It’s how lazy it all is.

  20. The Mole – some people declared for a candidate. Some other people who had voted for him last time decided to vote for someone else.

    Candidates do not own votes. Could well be multiple MPs who switch votes around as they wish, the whole point is its up to them. Not the candidates as to how people vote.

  21. @Newmania June 21, 2019 at 11:30 am

    For GATT 24 not to apply EU would have to state “EU will not commence negotiating a trade deal with UK”

    @Grist June 21, 2019 at 1:10 pm


    EU apparatchiks don’t give a damn about the people; all that matters is “The EU Project”

  22. “I still can’t *quite* bring myself to stop paying the TV tax though. Antiques Roadshow, Only Connect, Uni Challenge I still wanna watch – although I know they’re not really worth £140 or whatever it is. Bah – the bastards have me, dammit.”

    All BBC programs are available to stream online if you know where to look, you don’t have to use iPlayer, so no licence required for non-live viewing. I haven’t paid a licence fee in ten years. I throw the threatening letters in the bin. I once had a salesman (cos thats what they are, they’re on commission to sell TV licences) turn up, I told him I didn’t need a licence because I watched on demand services only and he said OK and left. That was over 5 years ago, there’s not been another one back since.

  23. Poor Newmania – he’s just provided data that shows that in round numbers the EU is our smallest trading partner
    75% UK
    13% not EU
    12% EU ( excluding UK )
    Makes you wonder what his central point in on EU membership being a good idea – may be it’s the centralisation of subsidies to owners of large amounts of agricultural land – or may be he can name a non-EU country that avoided Communism that is worse off than its nearest EU neighbour.
    It just isn’t clear.
    May be it’s his rejection of the Norway option ( which I rather like ) because he thinks we must have a seat at the table – despite 60% absenteeism in the Euro elections indicating the UK public don’t care to have a seat at the gravy soaked table. Poor lad, awfully confused.

  24. I stopped watching TV, back in the early 90s. Originally, because it just wasn’t possible to do so. The set we did have died & we never got around to getting another. Thing was, after a couple years’ break, I’d sort of lost the habit. I’d start watching something & quickly lose interest. I was too aware that this was just entertainment. That drama was only actors saying their lines in front of a camera.That the smiles on the faces of entertainers were just part of the act. When you start thinking like that, even serious programs like documentaries & current affairs start looking like what they are. Just more entertainment. It’s like looking at a puppet show & constantly being aware of the strings.
    I think that to enjoy TV there’s a necessity to consent to the illusion. To regard what your watching as in some ways real & be involved with it. To be passive, Which I’m not. I just can’t be bothered. These days, we seem to have at least five TVs. The other people here like it. Don’t supposed I’ve watched more than an hour of broadcast in the last year. I’ve got both Netflix & Amazon Prime. But I don’t seem to do much better with them. I tend to watch films in 15 minute segments over a period. That’s about the limit before I lose interest or something else needs attention. The vast majority I don’t even complete. I’ve absolutely no interest how the plot develops or ends. It’s just a film.
    Maybe it’s also a lifestyle thing. I just don’t live the sort of life where there aren’t always far more interesting things going on than watching TV. To be honest, most anything is.

  25. We in the Brexit Party enjoyed another complicit interview yesterday on the BBC Radio Four Today programme. This time it was Bank of England governor Mark Carney full of obfuscation and busily dissembling with the aid of the presenter.

    On this occasion of Bank of England governor Mark Carney’s latest interview he had decided to intervene in the question of a clean break Brexit by obfuscating about the question of an Article 24 GATT agreement in which he neatly confused ‘most favoured nation’, which would require the parties to apply the same tariffs to all and a standstill in anticipation of a Free Trade Arrangement, thus allowing him and the BBC to paint the usual Armageddon picture.

    Let us be clear. It is perfectly possible, if both the EU and UK agree, for us to leave the EU on the 31st of October and continue with our current trading arrangements until an FTA is signed, with no restrictions on the UK and with a very simple exit agreement. It just requires a will to do it. I personally went to see the World Trade Organisation in Geneva in January this year, in my capacity as chairman of Leave Means Leave, and got it from the horse’s mouth. If the UK government did not propose this it is because they didn’t want it, because they wanted to keep us close and to keep us in. If the EU refuse it, it is because they do not want to facilitate a smooth exit, because they want to punish us and to keep us in. Both these scenarios describe precisely why we must leave, deal or no deal. But a deal is possible, a managed clean-break deal…

    Pretty much what I told Newmainia yesterday

    …But what if we do ‘leave’ on the 31st, given the utter disregard for the electorate and for Brexit so far? How will we know it is actually Brexit and not just another stitched up ‘BRINO’, like Theresa May’s pathetic colony status treaty, otherwise known as the withdrawal agreement? Who will be the independent arbitrator?

    There are many good and true people who understand the issues and who have consistently put country before party, before personal ambition. In politics MPs across parties such as Owen Paterson, David Jones, Kate Hoey, Graham Stringer, Sammy Wilson, all members of the Leave means Leave Advisory Board.

    Also, observers and commentators such as Edgar Millar and Roger Bootle of Economists for a Free Trade, John Mills of Labour Leave, Mark Littlewood of the IEA, to name just a few…

    Beware Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, beware Parliament and beware the media. No longer can the establishment create their own version of the truth.

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