When did this happen?

The Indian Rebellion of 1857

The change from the Indian Mutiny?

Presumably it’s about the implications of each word. Rebellion could be just and righteous. A mutiny is against the righteous order. But when did the woke change the phrase?

16 thoughts on “When did this happen?”

  1. Um yes political choice of words. Certainly was a mutiny because it started when sepoys decided to kill their officers but I accept it turned into a more general rebellion against the company. But if we want myth you just have to speak to an indian about it.

  2. Bloke in Germany in Lugano

    Well It was presumably initially called a mutiny by people who wanted to call it a mutiny, not a rebellion.

    Also a political choice of words.

    These things always remind me of Thatcher’s road investment and rail subsidy.

  3. BIG in Lugano. Yup…political both ways and correct both ways. I think some indians are taught it as the first war of independence or some such. So i’m not going to get worked up about it. I might even risk reading the article.

  4. Brexiter ideology is contradictory. It simultaneously insists on pride in the British empire (accompanied by the delusion that former colonies are eager for a close bond with their erstwhile masters)

    This would appear to be one of them fake news thingies. I’ve never heard Nigel Farage or John Redwood talking about Empire except maybe in passing, but I have heard them spend a lot of time talking about the Maastricht Treaty, the ERM, the Lisbon Treaty, the ECB, etc. etc.

    The Brexit Bus that outraged Remainers so much didn’t say anything about Empire, did it? Obviously EUphiles would prefer that Brexiters be a mix of Sir Bufton Tufton and Alf Garnett, makes it easier to demonise them.

    The alleged delusion about fuzzy wuzzies falls into the same category. Most of the trade talk is about the US, Canada and the Antipodes, and those countries are indeed positively disposed towards dealing with us.

    Contra what Indians believe, the rest of the world isn’t actually eager for Hepatitis A and bitch lasagna.

    The Runnymede Trust’s report, however, points to the simple fact that the history of migration cannot be separated from that of empire. The presence of African, Caribbean and Asian communities in this country is tied to the great and lasting upheavals of British colonialism

    I dunno how true this is, given even Norway is swarming with diversity. Migration is driven by perverse incentives, weakness and effeminacy on the part of the targeted country, not what Flashman did.

    But let’s assume she’s correct. Let us set right the wrongs of the past, starting with free plane tickets for our no-longer-colonial-subjects.

  5. Funny how Irish/Indian/you name it independence is a good thing.

    English independence, not so much.

    It’s like how the Palestinians are supposed properly to want a racially and religiously homogeneous nation state but an English man expressing the same wish would lose his job and might find himself with a criminal conviction.

  6. @BiG

    Yep. Funny how Maggie had less balls about high speed toll roads than Froggie socialists but I guess Britain has a history of antipathy to the toll that she didn’t want to risk reawakening.

    Re “rebellion” – is that really a woke thing, is it an Indian thing, or an academic trying to find a more neutral position between “mutiny” and “struggle for independence”?

  7. Quite a while back, at least in academia. Studying history at uni in the mid 80s, it had become a rebellion by then

  8. Ted S, Catskill Mtns, NY, USA

    Here in the States, thanks to the Hollywood movies, the mutiny on the HMS Bounty is more likely to be seen as an understandable reaction to a brutal Capt. Bligh and not in a negative light.

  9. Why are you there, Priyamvada Gopal? Not from Surrey, are you?

    She raises ingrateful to a capital crime.

    And quit speaking English, bitch.

  10. @steve
    They may have had a point about migration and empire looking back, but it certainly doesn’t reflect the current reality or the last few decades

  11. “an understandable reaction to a brutal Capt. Bligh and not in a negative light”: but that’s quite wrong. He wasn’t brutal but he was foul-mouthed. Fletcher Christian, being a Gentleman, hated being sworn at by his social inferior Bligh.

  12. Ted S, Catskill Mtns, NY, USA


    To be fair, I did say “Thanks to the movies”, which may have been slightly less than 100% accurate.

  13. The Indian viewpoint du jour is that it was the “first war of independence”.

    Granted, there were many different motivations behind the rebellion, perhaps one of which *might* have been an “India for the Indians” theme, but it’s to ignore several large elephants in the room to believe 1857 was primarily that or even close to it.

    India and anything remotely similar to it as a concept was a British invention. The residents of the place would have described themselves by their ethnic/religious/caste/region rather than “Indian” or a synonym of it.

    Imagine asking a resident of Lyons during Charlemagne’s reign whether they were French or not, for example.

    Most of the leaders of the rebellion were seeking regional power, not “freedom” for the inhabitants. It was also quite geographically contained with little to no assistance arriving from most areas of the region.

    Rebellion is probably a fair description though.

  14. I understand that at least the rebellion part of the mess was triggered off by the SJW’s of the day pointing out that India must be developed, and those awful heathen customs got rid of.

    This morphed into the idea that the states of vassals of the Company should come under direct British rule. Hence the doctrine of ‘lapse’, which meant that Rajahs with no heir could not adopt one.

    Needless to say, after the mutiny/revolt/whatever, this notion was dropped. The princely states were also made vassals of the King/Emperor, a much more prestigious status than vassal to a pack of merchants.

    This worked. At least I don’t remember another rebellion.

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