Polly is actually proposing A Civil Service coup here – Oh Where Art Thous Treason Act?

The sense of violation of democracy reverberates everywhere. But what should civil servants do when power is seized in front of their eyes? Do they carry on obeying orders to drive the country into a no-deal Brexit disaster when they see parliament barred from that nation-changing decision? I asked Bob Kerslake, former head of the civil service, where their duty lies in this unprecedented situation.

“We are reaching the point where the civil service must consider putting its stewardship of the country ahead of service to the government of the day,” he said. That is a devastating verdict.

Mark Sedwill, the current head, should, along with all other senior civil servants indeed consider the democratic validity of any instruction to facilitate a no-deal Brexit without parliamentary assent. A no-deal Brexit was never proposed in the referendum, three-quarters of the public are against it, along with the overwhelming majority of MPs. Johnson has not been elected, commands no majority, avoids interviews and now sends parliament away. Consider, in her favour, how many times Theresa May was willing to stand in parliament taking the pain on Brexit statements for hour after hour, out of respect for parliament.

Damn that Tony Blair, eh?

96 thoughts on “Polly is actually proposing A Civil Service coup here – Oh Where Art Thous Treason Act?”

  1. “I asked Bob Kerslake, former head of the civil service…”

    Why? You should have asked the current head.

    But perhaps, you knew what answer you’d get.

  2. A no-deal Brexit was never proposed in the referendum

    Stupid bitch. What if the EU didn’t offer us a good deal and just told us they wanted half our taxes to have a deal?

    three-quarters of the public are against it

    Wrong. 45% would stay in the EU.

    along with the overwhelming majority of MPs

    Not enough to win a vote of no confidence, though.

    Johnson has not been elected, commands no majority

    Grow up

    avoids interviews

    Aw, are your friends at Channel 4 News losing money?

    and now sends parliament away.

    Often done.

  3. Bloke in North Dorset

    Johnson has not been elected, commands no majority

    This sort of thing really pisses me off. It shows ignorance of our own constitution in that we don’t elect PMs and if he didn’t have a majority they would NC him, yet she refers to Leaver’s as ignorant.

    Yet the likes of the BBC never call them out.

    As for the claim’s of a coup, if there really had been one the like of Paul Mason and Polly would have been rounded up and shot and the BBC would have been taken over rather than continuing to act as their mouthpiece.

  4. BiND –

    Bloody Hell:

    @paulmasonnews
    In major cities there have been immediate protests against Boris Johnson’s coup. But that’s just the start. He – and his elite backers and the dark money from far right America – just don’t understand the British working class. He’s started something he will not like the end of.

    How would you even satirise this stuff?

    2019 is more ridiculous than anything Sasha Baron Cohen could’ve dreamed up.

  5. Parliament, in voting to instruct the Government to notify the EU of the UK’s intent to leave the EU in accordance with Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, has assented to a no deal exit because that’s what Article 50 says. It’s EU law…

  6. @BiND

    “if he didn’t have a majority they would NC him”

    This isn’t quite true, even May didn’t have a majority so she got by with confidence and supply from the DUP. The numbers have got worse for Boris as several ex-ministers from the May years are no longer on the government payroll and are clearly unreliable from his perspective.

    Boris is in a limbo area whereby he knows his more controversial legislation would at the least struggle to pass, but also that a No Confidence vote in him would struggle too – he almost certainly wouldn’t get the majority of MPs to vote in his favour, but he could squeeze by if, as expected, some abstain, particularly among the independents.

    Doesn’t make him illegitimate but his government probably ought to be tested. A Queen’s Speech effectively produces a vote of confidence in his new legislative programme – in the circumstances and given the complaints, isn’t this a good thing? I wasn’t a fan of the way May avoided such scrutiny of her precarious parliamentary position by running a seemingly endless parliament.

  7. It won’t be no-deal anyway. Many micro and mini-deals are already in place between us and the EU.

    And, A bro in FCO has a deal with a South American country ready to go. Many more lining up.

    I’m with Dellers & Murray on this. It ain’t gonna be a disaster and the tears of the traitors will be a joy to behold.

    And as Pat Condell so rightly says, this was never about trade anyway.

    And I don’t like BMWs, so there, yar boo sucks!

  8. What a taradiddle over a routine matter – there’s a prorogation virtually every year, usually in the Spring. This session has trundled on and on – it has to be ended some time.

    So the charge comes down to “Boris has chosen the timing in hopes of political advantage!” Tough titty.

    As for yer Brexit: Parliament voted for it. Both major parties stood in the last election in favour of it. It’s entirely legit.

    Come on: if this were a coup the Quislings would be being rounded up as we speak.

    Personally I shouldn’t object if they arrested, charged, tried, convicted, sentenced, and hanged Toni Blair, pour encourager.

  9. I think it’s Mason who doesn’t understand the British working class, probably because he’s never met any of them. Who are all those people that have been protesting outside the H of P? Not many working class I suspect because they’re all too busy earning a living.

  10. Well, I’m perfectly ready to participate in some shit-kicking.

    Barry Gardiner this morning on LBC, to paraphrase, said that when the democratic way to participate was taken away from the people then civil obedience was OK.

    Barry, would that apply in your socialist state too?

  11. Why has she not proposed the Army takes over, perhaps with AC Grayling, with patriotic lion’s mane slipstreaming in the wind, sitting on the front of the first tank to crash through Brenda’s front door.

  12. Bloke in North Dorset

    MBE,

    Fair point reference the NC vote and his lack of working majority.

    Doesn’t make him illegitimate but his government probably ought to be tested. A Queen’s Speech effectively produces a vote of confidence in his new legislative programme – in the circumstances and given the complaints, isn’t this a good thing?

    Indeed it is and I made that point yesterday. Boris has effectively brought the whole thing to a head and whatever happens the uncertainty has to end, its doing more damage than no deal Brexit ever could.

  13. What we have is a bunch of rogue MPs trying to bypass the will of parliament.
    They claim to act for democracy yet ignore that parliament voted to leave the EU. And parliament voted against the deal on offer. Both issues had a majority so both were the will of parliament.

    The rogue MPs would prefer parliament didn’t decide such matters as they themselves know better than parliament.
    Shoot the lot of them for conspiring against the democracy of this country.

  14. @BiND

    In terms of uncertainty – if May’s deal had passed, wouldn’t we be about 25% of the way through the transition period by now, and we have spent it as full members? (To the surprise of those who thought invoking Article 50 guaranteed our exit on time.)

    For about the last year, we haven’t known what status the UK will have vis-a-vis the EU in even six months’ time. For big chunks we haven’t known what it’ll be within three months. At points even what it will be within one month. That surely has to have been harmful and I’m not sure how a National Government of All The Can-kicking is supposed to help, when there’s no immediate prospect of a substantially different deal on offer to the one parliament rejected three times.

  15. What’s fucking up lots of my clients at the moment is simply the uncertainty.

    We leave, no deal – they know where they are and will get on with it.

    Because it isn’t whiny hand-wringers like Polly who run businesses.

    It’s people who can cope with most anything thrown at them and work round it.

  16. As mentioned by many, what happens on the 31st Oct IS the will of parliament, and that is how the civil service should see it.

    If any civil servant feels he cannot in conscience act as directed by the government his honourable duty can only be to resign. I haven’t noticed any resignations so far.

  17. Johnson should arrest Bercow /Hammond/Grieve and the rest for treason—which they have committed and are still committing daily. Their constituency votes to be used as their constituents voted on 23/6/16.

    Anyway time for drastic action –not more votes in the Shitehouse of Traitors.

  18. I feel oddly chipper today. If we are going to have Brexit, and I have, for a long time thought it inevitable, then this is the best kind. It is of a kind for which there is no shred of a mandate, by a PM with no personal mandate, against the wishes of Parliament and by a misuse of a Constitutional procedure every bit as ennobling as laughing at cripples in the street.( I know you lot admire laughing at cripples but still … )
    Better still, just when you had lost all faith in politicians, Ruth Davidson summons the residual self-respect to decline to parrot Boris Johnson’s, Bunter the cunter lies in Scotland another day.
    Myself I see little to choose any available Brexit, they are all bad economically cultural, in terms of security and for any sense of hope in the future.

    The dull misery is replaced by bright fury , the forces that hate Brexit gather, the future is to be fought for. The great die off begins in about ten years – by then we should be back in in all but name

  19. BoM4 – Street Countdown, innit?

    The conundrum is WANREKS

    Newmania – That’s the spirit! Next comes depression, then acceptance. x

  20. We have a self described elite totally unused to bring challenged, who are in the habit of sneering and applying hyperbole to head off potential challenges. Hence when finally opposed they ramp up the smears and hyperbole, but never think to supply evidence – they simply make stuff up to suit their desires. On finally facing a serious challenge and probable defeat all they can do is keep ramping up their normal tactics. They may have started this merely in favour of EU membership, but now they see their status challenged.
    I’m looking forward to November- it should be epic! Especially if we are in a General election campaign by then. I suspect that Boris will use the Queen’s speech to frame the debate on his terms and effectively set out the Tory election manifesto.

  21. Facepainter–any pretence that you are other than a vile self-serving shite is now long gone. Brexit will be a triumph you grade z scummer. In 10 years no one will give a shite about the EU if it lasts that long once its ranks are broken. And best of all the existence of treasonous shite like you in our midst is exposed to daylight.

    Brexit is just round one. The war against middle class filth like you and your globo elite masters is only just beginning you otiose turd.

  22. Remainiacs really got upset at any suggestion of civil disobedience or violence in response to Brexit being stolen, but now they threaten civil disobedience, violence and treason to prevent Brexit. Remainiac violence good, Brexiteer violence bad, just as lefty violence is good and right wing violence is bad.

  23. “A no-deal Brexit was never proposed in the referendum”

    It was pretty clear in the government’s Brexit leaflet – sent to all households – that there would be no deal:

    “Some argue that we could strike a good deal quickly with
    the EU because they want to keep access to our market.
    But the Government’s judgement is that it would be
    much harder than that”

    “The Government judges it could result in 10 years or more of uncertainty as the UK … renegotiates new arrangements with the EU ”

    So a no-deal Brexit, and ten years out to get a new deal. That’s what the government officially told us that a Leave vote would mean. Yes, we might have hoped our government would do better, but Polly can’t say that we weren’t warned that no-deal would be the result.

  24. @Newmania

    “It is of a kind for which there is no shred of a mandate”

    It’s exactly the Brexit I and 17 million people other voted for.

    I had lots of reasons for voting Brexit and have an added one should the need to vote on it again arise.

    “it’s funny watching whiny remoaners throwing their toys out the pram”

  25. There are definitely some people who ought to face justice for serious activity against the will of the people, and Parliament as indicated by several votes with large majorities. My solution would be Nissen huts on Gruinard Island for a long time rather than the rope or the bullet. That would piss of the Nats too. A better solution from a security perspective would be St Kilda, but that’s a nice place, if you like that sort of thing, and I wouldn’t want to despoil it with a prison. If that’s not acceptable, how about Dartmoor? It’s probably big enough to hold all the worst offenders. Sadly it’s never going to happen.

    As an aside, I shall be amused when Newmania finally sees the utter vacuity of his point of view in 2 or 3 years when our economy is booming, the EU is riven by internecine war on several levels and the Euro is down the toilet. Hopefully I won’t yet be incontinent by then…

  26. Oh indeed there were lots of reasons

    : “There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market” – Boris Johnson, the Telegraph, 26 June 2016

    Is that the same thing as No Deal …I don`t think it is is it ?

  27. It is of a kind for which there is no shred of a mandate”

    It’s exactly the Brexit I and 17 million people other voted for.

    Presumably the argument here seems to be that its no good quoting recalling or evidencing anything the Leave side said because everyone knows they are liars anyway

  28. laughing at cripples in the street

    I prefer laughing at intellectual and moral cripples. Such as you.

    no shred of a mandate

    Apart from when Parliament voted for it. Parliament voted for the process that would end up with Brexit, deal or no deal. Parliament rejected a deal. Therefore no deal, as per Parliament’s decision.

    I will admit that a number of MPs think they can vote down a deal but not accept the consequences of what they have done. But then they’re Remainers, so behaving like an irrational child comes naturally.

  29. But then they’re Remainers, so behaving like an irrational child comes naturally.

    Gee thanks; advice from the kind of deep thinker that wants us to be poor isolated and irrelevant because he doesn’t like the smell of Polish food is always much appreciated.

  30. I want to be as poor and isolated as Switzerland………or Norway………..or Australia……………..or Canada………….or Singapore…………..or Japan……………

  31. Presumably the argument here seems to be that its no good quoting recalling or evidencing anything the Leave side said because everyone knows they are liars anyway

    I’m loving the Menendez Brothers defence* from Continuity Remain.

    “Guys, the fact that we deliberately blocked any meaningful Brexit preparations for the past 3 years is proof Brexit can’t work!”

    More chutzpah than a cloning facility dedicated to Tom Watsons.

    *Murdering your parents, then demanding sympathy for being an orphan

  32. Jim
    August 29, 2019 at 1:35 pm
    I want to be as poor and isolated as Switzerland………or Norway………..or Australia……………..or Canada………….or Singapore…………..or Japan……………

    The two European countries you mention are both actually part of the Schengen Area and the UK will indeed by much much more isolated than either. The Norway option was endlessly quoted as Brexit in name only!
    Oh look here comes bus promising money ….run along run along …or all the lollies will be gone.. you child …

  33. Jeebus, if Newmania were any more stupid he/ she/it would need watering twice a week. The unintelligible drivel posted here suggests that he/she/it wears shoes with Velcro fasteners.

  34. “Oh look here comes bus promising money ….run along run along …or all the lollies will be gone.. you child …”

    I voted for Brexit, in the certain knowledge it would undoubtedly cost me personally a large amount of money per year, being a farmer in receipt of CAP farm subsidies, which I was sure would never continue long after we left the EU (and I was right – plans to abolish them are already well advanced, and no one is suggesting the UK will be in the CAP in the future, regardless of what relationship we have with the EU). I did so because I considered leaving the EU best for the country as a whole, not my personal pocket. If I’d wanted to be utterly selfish I’d have voted to Remain.

    So how much cash would you be forgoing by voting for Remain? I’ve put my mouth where my money was – how about you?

  35. Henry – he posts TL;DR walls of text over at John Redwood’s place too

    Guy’s a loon. He’ll probably be on the news on November 1st with the sombre statement “and then he turned the motorised dildo on himself…”

  36. The only real Leave against EU opposition is the WTO Deal, which is certainly not No Deal as it is so often called. It is hypothetically possible that there could be a deal beneficial to the UK, but even at the 2016 Referendum it was obvious that there wouldn’t be any such a thing. In fact, the brochure sent to every house was absolutely clear on the facts.

    A May Deal is not Leaving.

    And as for the majority, Leavers knew what they were voting for, Remainers couldn’t possibly know, unless they had a crystal ball, because the EU is evolving.

    And then there’s the matter of the citizens of the Irish Republic allowed to vote in Parliamentary Elections and Referenda – betcha very few voted Leave, which probably means that the majority for Leave was a million or two more than was recorded.

  37. Newmy

    “There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market” – Boris Johnson, the Telegraph, 26 June 2016

    I think you’ll find people may have voted in response to what was said “before” the vote took place…

  38. Would you take any advice from someone who likes golabki, Newmania? You ever been to Poland, Newmania? Speak any Polish? Actually know anything about forrin’ apart from your package deal holidays? Lived anywhere else apart from your little island with people like yourself?
    You and your ilk typify the Little Englanders we’re supposed to sneer at. You don’t like the wider world because it frightens you. You want your Mummy! Consider this a well deserved sneer.

  39. Dennis, He Who Calls Out Bullshit

    Gee thanks; advice from the kind of deep thinker that wants us to be poor isolated and irrelevant because he doesn’t like the smell of Polish food is always much appreciated.

    Hey Newmania, Donald Fucking Trump will make the Brits rich with the trade deal he’ll put together Boris. You really think the British are going to get rich trading with Italy, Greece, Bulgaria and Ireland while a massive EU bureaucracy writes 200 page regulations requiring all British men to have their penises point to the left when dressed in trousers?

  40. Dennis, He Who Is Unpublished

    The dull misery is replaced by bright fury , the forces that hate Brexit gather, the future is to be fought for. The great die off begins in about ten years – by then we should be back in in all but name

    Hey, Newania. You’ve been re-reading Irene Iddesleigh, haven’t you?

  41. It’s amusing to behold Remainiacs losing all sense of perspective over prorogation while also hypocritically ignoring the progressive dictum that words have consequences.

    Paul Mason told a crowd of Remain protesters in Westminster that “if Boris Johnson seizes power from Parliament, I promise you we will never have another free election in this country”, and got them to swear a bizarre oath that “at 12 o’clock on Saturday, we are coming for you, Boris Johnson”.

    If that’s not incitement to violence, what is?

    Owen Jones, himself (apparently) a recent victim of political violence, summoned up the imagery of the spilt ‘blood of our ancestors’ and branded the Prime Minister a ‘tinpot would-be dictator’. He tweeted that the issue was now a ‘war’ which ‘we are going to fight with everything we’ve got’.

    The Best For Britain campaign even suggested that the monarch ought to remember the fate of Charles I.

    Elsewhere in Remainiac circles, you can find every OTT analogy you might imagine…Peterloo…Kim Jong Un…Hitler’s Enabling Act…fascism…The Handmaid’s Tale…totalitarianism.

    To progressives and remainiacs, the dictum ‘words have consequences’ applies only to words they disagree with!

  42. The comments of the New Remainiac are, if needed, the ultimate proof that ‘Leave’ is the right side to be on. And when others follow us out the door when the budget is recalculated – what will the likes of him do? – manually remove the stars from their flags as 28 becomes 25 and perhaps fewer still….

  43. With luck the “great die off” will be all the demented Remainers succumbing to the embolisms their rage is stoking up.

  44. Theo–the ONLY way BoJo can lose now is trying to bring back ANY part of Treason’s WA. That is my only fear. If he goes No Deal TBP will make no trouble at a GE as they have what they want. For the future–another story but now–yes. No Deal gives Johnson the GE on a plate. If you have any influence with your rabble and any path to any Brexit Tory Grandee –do what you can to get that message across.

  45. Brexit derangement syndrome seems to be even more powerful than Trump derangement syndrome. Hugh Grant is playing the Robert de Niro role but is not really up to the mark given the ease with which Piers Morgan (sic!) managed to swat him

  46. BiND – Remember when it was only swivel-eyed, tinfoil-hatted loonies “banging on” about Europe? 😀

  47. Bloke in North Dorset

    Here’s a thought: if Boris is illegitimate as PM because he wasn’t elected, Brown wasn’t elected and he signed the Lisbon Treaty that took us in to the EU. Can we therefore claim we aren’t even in the EU?

  48. [1] A no-deal Brexit was never proposed in the referendum, [2] three-quarters of the public are against it…[3] Johnson has not been elected

    1. Nor was “Must have a deal”*

    2. ComRes poll of >2,000 last week showed 54% support No Deal – higher than the 52% who voted Leave

    3. Johnson was elected by his constituents in 2017; he was elected leader of Tory party by Tory party. Prime Ministers are not elected, Presidents are.

    The Guardian – always wrong

    * See RichardT August 29, 2019 at 12:39 pm

    .
    @Tractor Gent August 29, 2019 at 1:00 pm

    “St Kilda too nice” – South Georgia penguins wave “Welcome” signs whilst thinking “free food for us”

  49. Good article in DM

    The real scandal, John Bercow? How you ripped up the rules by siding with the government’s opponents to defeat Mrs May only to slam successor Boris Johnson for ‘constitutional outrage’

    …According to Parliament’s website: ‘The Speaker is the chief officer and highest authority of the House of Commons and must remain politically impartial at all times.’

    Tory MP Andrew Bridgen said: ‘He’s a Speaker who has ripped every page about impartiality out of the Speaker’s rule book.

    ‘It is hypocritical. He’s showing what an arch-Remainer he is. No doubt his impotence to stop prorogation will undoubtedly be making him go apoplectic.’

    Bercow’s critics say he’s on a one-man mission to destroy Brexit – he was spotted driving a car with a sticker saying ‘Bollocks to Brexit’. (Bercow told MPs the car belonged to his wife.) He used constitutional theorist Erskine May (who died in 1886) to bolster his opportunistic case to sabotage the EU referendum result.

    As a proud expert on parliamentary history, surely Bercow knows that proroguing Parliament is a normal part of the process of government. It happens almost every year as one parliamentary term ends and another begins.

    The difference this time is that the prorogation will last longer than normal and will happen at a tortuous time politically.

    Bercow’s ‘outrage’ might have been more convincing were it not for his long record of interpreting parliamentary rules and conventions in ways that favour the Remain side. In January, he defied convention and overruled his officials by allowing a vote on an amendment which forced Prime Minister Theresa May to present an EU Withdrawal Bill ‘Plan B’ to MPs after they rejected her deal.

    Bercow admitted he had flouted precedent, adding: ‘If we were guided only by precedent, manifestly nothing in our procedures would ever change… I have made an honest judgment.’

    He later prevented MPs from voting on a Brexiteer amendment which specifically ruled out a second referendum – even though it had been signed by 127 MPs.

    In March, when Mrs May was desperately trying to get her Bill through the Commons at the third attempt, Bercow, seeking to block the vote, was a stickler for precedent. He ruled that MPs could not vote because the motion was substantially unchanged.

    His justification was a convention dating to 1604, which, he said, had been used a dozen times – though not since 1920. Clearly, Bercow’s contradictory view of historical precedence is based on what he feels can be employed most handily to thwart Brexit. His bias has shown up several times, too, in the Speaker’s choice of amendments to select for debate.

    In March he chose two motions that, if passed, would have allowed MPs to seize control of the business of the Commons (in the event, both were rejected). He blocked another motion that would have allowed MPs to rule out a second referendum on Brexit.

    The fact is that a debate with a partisan moderator is not a true debate.

    As for his claim about prorogation being an outrage, Tory MP Philip Hollobone pointed out that as PM, Tony Blair regularly prorogued Parliament for 12 weeks.

    His former colleague Stewart Jackson observed with irony that it seemed fine for ‘Remain backbenchers with no mandate take control of legislation to work with Bercow to block voters’ decision’ on Brexit but that it was an ‘outrage’ to follow precedent and rules to prorogue Parliament ahead of a new government’s legislative programme. ‘Hypocrites!’ he added.

    Sir Christopher Meyer, our former ambassador to the US, tartly commented that it was ‘time for Bercow to keep quiet and keep out.’

    The Speaker says he has always sought to ‘champion the rights of members wishing to put their particular opinion – once a Right-wing Conservative but now a liberal – has repeatedly shown no qualms in advertising his Remainer views, reportedly telling students at Reading in 2017: ‘I voted to Remain.’ This summer, The Speaker travelled to the Edinburgh Festival Fringe to tell an audience that he would ‘fight with every breath in my body’ to stop the Prime Minister proroguing Parliament.

    Surely the correct place for such a remark, if at all, would have been the Speaker’s chair. It should not have been delivered to an ardently Remain-leaning audience at an arts festival in a country where the majority voted Remain in 2016.

    At the same event, Bercow was asked if MPs would be able to stop a No Deal Brexit. Rather than properly declining to answer, he replied with an enthusiastic: ‘Yes!’

    Already, MPs have condemned the Speaker for staying in his job more than a year beyond his self-declared retirement date. So is it any surprise when he so brazenly makes clear his views on the issue in Britain’s recent political history?

    Tory MP Peter Bone said on Wednesday: ‘Bercow no longer sounds like a referee – he sounds like he is playing for one of the teams.’

    The truth is that John Bercow’s behaviour shows that he is not an independent defender of the British constitution. He is a partisan figure who has exploited his office to arrogantly wield the political power that eluded him during the years he spent as a backbencher.

  50. Dear Mr Worstall

    “What is SEDITION?

    An insurrectionary movement tending towards treason, but wanting an overt act; attempts made by meetings or speeches, or by publications, to disturb the tranquillity of the state. The distinction between “sedition” and “treason” consists in this: that though the ultimate object of sedition is a violation of the public peace, or at least such a course of measures as evidently engenders it. yet it does not aim at direct and open violence against the laws or the subversion of the constitution. Alis. Crim. Law, 5S0. In Scotch law. The raising commotions or disturbances in the state. It Is a revolt against legitimate authority. Ersk. Inst 4, 4, 14. In English law. Sedition is the offense of publishing, verbally or otherwise, any words or document with the intention of exciting disaffection, hatred, or contempt against the sovereign, or the government and constitution of the kingdom, or either house of parliament, or the administration of justice. or of exciting his majesty’s subjects to attempt, otherwise than by lawful means, the alteration of any matter in church or state, or of exciting feelings of ill will and hostility between different classes of his majesty’s subjects. Sweet.
    And see State v. Shepherd, 177 Mo. 205. 76 S. W. 79, 99 Am. St. Rep. 624.”

    https://thelawdictionary.org/sedition/

    Cue song: Sedition! (to the tune of Tradition! from Fiddler on the Roof). Make up your own words.

    So, two charges of sedition:

    One: Ms Polly Toynbee, journalist (so called).

    Two: The Right Honourable* The Lord ‘Bobb’** Kerslake, former head of the civil service.

    Hmm, banged to rights, methinks. Next!

    Does anyone know how to lay charges of sedition, treason or anything important against a person? I suspect the police would probably be as uninterested as by complaints of rape against white children by persons of a certain religion, as apposed to, say, complaints of hurt feelings by horrid words by peoples of certain protected species.

    Just askin’.

    For a friend.

    DP

    * Does The Right Honourable make him a Privy Councillor?
    ** As in Blackadder Goes Forth

  51. Dear Mr Worstall

    In the referendum on 23 June 2016 on my ballot paper it asked me:

    Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    Remain a member of the European Union

    Leave the European Union

    With a little box against the two options. That was for my democratic ‘X’.

    Nowhere was “With a deal” or “Without a deal” mentioned.

    I should like to say to any remaindeers reading this: fuck off.

    Sorry for the forthright language, but it is sadly necesary in this case.

    The alternative would involve bloodshed.

    DP

  52. I could be mistaken.. But all political posing and shenanigans from both sides of the argument aside, isnt it a fact that by invoking Article 50 way back when Parliament already invoked Brexit, quite irrevokeably?

    As far as I know, you *can’t* uninvoke it, going “oh wait, we’ve changed our minds about that one, sorry guv’… ” like a lot of the Remain camp seems to believe.
    Best you can do after invoking it is try and get the best deal out of it, like any divorce. If you fail to… well.. tough luck..

    And Failing is what the entire UK government ( it’s not just Parliament…) has done up until now. The ungodly mess the incessant infighting has made of things is far worse than any clean No-Deal Brexit would have caused.
    As more commenters here have pointed out: actual entrepeneurs and businessmen would have adjusted and coped, as long as the Rules are clear.

    I’m quite surprised peeps in the UK haven’t yet called for an Ecksian solution to the people causing this mess, and hung, drawn, and quartered the entire lot in a display of Displeasure.
    As, y’know, a fair warning to any future politicians that it might be a good idea that when it comes to decisions deeply affecting the entire nation it *might* be a Good Idea to forget about partisan pet peeves and actually do what you’re elected for.

    The biggest worry is not Brexit. It’s what this bunch of incompetents think they can accomplish *after* , given their obvious incapacity to govern in the past years.

  53. I’m quite surprised peeps in the UK haven’t yet called for an Ecksian solution to the people causing this mess, and hung, drawn, and quartered the entire lot in a display of Displeasure.

    We have been calling for it, but are frustrated by the current law, the EU (members can’t be hanging folks, since it might extend to Tusk, Drunker, Barnier et al) and the police who seem to be evolving into the UK Censorship Bureau.

    So, I will say it quite clearly. BRExit must be delivered.

    Treason cannot be tolerated (especially elected members of Parliament conspiring with foreign state actors). The traditional punishment was to be tried and (if found guilty), submitted for hanging, drawing and quartering. This tradition needs to be restored and those criminals in government (elected and officials) who have conspired with foreign state actors must be tried for treason.

    If found not guilty, fair enough. If found guilty, then they must be subject to the traditional punishment of hanging, drawing and quartering.

    The list of traitors is pretty obvious to anyone that has followed BRExit with any reasonable measure of awareness.

  54. I am reminded again this evening what a deeply unpleasant person Corbyn is. His attitude to a channel 4 sycophant /so called journalist was patronising , sneering and dismissive.
    If he and his evil marxist cohorts Milne / McDonnell ever came close to wielding reins of power, there will be civil war

  55. @BiND
    “Here’s a thought: if Boris is illegitimate as PM because he wasn’t elected, Brown wasn’t elected and he signed the Lisbon Treaty that took us in to the EU. Can we therefore claim we aren’t even in the EU?”

    Nice try but that’s Maastricht and Major not Lisbon and Brown!

  56. Doc – see, this is what I mean when I say we’ve passed the satirical event horizon. It’s no longer possible to make fun of stuff, because we’re inside an inescapable vortex of ludicrousness crushed together by the sheer weight of its own silliness.

    I would lie In bed, looking up at the yellow stars I had meticulously stuck to my blue bedroom ceiling and dream of broadening my horizons.

    Narrator: He did not.

    With police forces reporting a significant rise in hate crimes against members of minority communities since June 2016, why on earth would I want to stay?

    I’m bored of pointing out that lefties have been screaming about “hate crimes” exponentially rising every year for decades now, yet we somehow never arrive at the terrifying fascist Judge Dredd dystopia they keep promising.

    My shit is gripped to the point of squidgenessence over noting that the definition of “hate incidents” includes absolutely trivial shit like people misgendering trannies on t’internet anyway.

    So forget that, and bask in the wondrousness of this gay English fella thinking that he’ll be safer in France. France, mind you, with its rampant Islamomurder problem, seething social unrest and thuggish gendarmes who maim protesters for fun.

    Bon courage!

  57. ‘The sense of violation of democracy reverberates everywhere.’

    Yes. The people voted out over 3 years ago, yet you remain.

    The Left/Polly don’t give a shist about democracy. Polly invokes it because the people do, and she is trying to trick them into thinking that the government not doing what the people voted for is democracy. It is quite Orwellian.

  58. @Grikath
    I could be mistaken.. But all political posing and shenanigans from both sides of the argument aside, isnt it a fact that by invoking Article 50 way back when Parliament already invoked Brexit, quite irrevokeably?

    As far as I know, you *can’t* uninvoke it, going “oh wait, we’ve changed our minds about that one, sorry guv’… ” like a lot of the Remain camp seems to believe.

    You can and it’s called revocation.

    The ECJ has given some legal guidance on how this would work: https://ukandeu.ac.uk/revoking-article-50-after-the-ecjs-ruling/

    The big issue in europhile circles is whether to aim for People’s Vote (Again Until You Vote Like We Want You To), revocation without referendum, or to settle for a super-soft BRINO. It’s this division over a strategy that gives Boris a chance despite not commanding a majority in parliament.

  59. @BiND
    “Here’s a thought: if Boris is illegitimate as PM because he wasn’t elected, Brown wasn’t elected and he signed the Lisbon Treaty that took us in to the EU. Can we therefore claim we aren’t even in the EU?”

    MyBurningEars said:
    “Nice try but that’s Maastricht and Major not Lisbon and Brown!”

    Excellent, that still works; the Maastricht Treaty was signed February 1992, at which point Major was still “unelected” PM after Thatcher’s resignation. He didn’t fight the general election until April.

    So that’s Maastricht and Lisbon both signed by PMs with no more electoral mandate than Boris.

  60. @myburningears

    Thanks. Useful article, that one.

    Still can’t see the current bunch of critters do anything about Brexit itself though, even with *another* extension.
    A peoples’ vote… Unless it’s a forced GE with a landslide either way. Not enough time.
    BRINO.. That one’s already been swept off the table ( and rightly so) by the EU side. You’re either In or Out. No special treatment ( even though most UK politico’s are seen as …Special… here on the continent. )

    Revocation without referendum… This is the one that probably made Boris pull this stunt, and Parliament *might* try to pull a fast one on him in that respect.
    But going by the current “performance” the Remainers will never be able to bury their hatchets long enough to get the *clear* majority the article indicates revocation seems to require
    ( Here in the Netherlands such far-reaching decisions would most likely require the dreaded 2/3rd majority to go through either way, since it would be considered constitutional level.. Dunno if the UK needs only half+1, or more on things on this order of magnitude.)

    Revocation in and of itself would leave UK politicians with so much egg on their faces after all these years that they would be taken even less seriously as they are now.
    So it’s really a non-option that may backfire even harder than any form of Brexit combined.

    But it’s certainly Interesting Times….

  61. Oh, I do find that Independent tosser amusing. I suspect, if he’s experience of the French is their intellectual classes, he’s in for a considerable surprise in a small village in Limousin. If he thinks Brexiteers are xenophobic & right wing just wait till he meets the rural French. It’s no illusion Marine’s got a fair shot at the next presidency.

  62. Revocation in and of itself would leave UK politicians with so much egg on their faces after all these years that they would be taken even less seriously as they are now.

    I suspect an Article 50 Revocation would lead to one of those “chilling silences” across much of the UK. If that happened, I wouldn’t want to be an prospective MP’s insurer.

    It would be a turning point in UK parliamentary democracy (for what it’s worth), to essentially take a plebiscite, ratify it multiple times and then repudiate it.

    Not saying “There will be blood on the streets”, but for any PM, Government or Parliament to do that in a recorded vote would take an almost “courageous” (Yes Minister style) level of recklessness.

    The consequences would haunt the survivors for generations. The fact that Phillip Hammond is trying to arrange his reselection by a private committee of his local constituency party suggests that some MP’s understand this.

    My money is on MP’s as a whole being gutless windbags who will sound off about repudiation, but baulk at actually voting to revoke Article 50, especially in a publicly recorded vote available to all-and-sundry in Hansard.

  63. So that’s Maastricht and Lisbon both signed by PMs with no more electoral mandate than Boris.

    “unelected” Gordon Brown didn’t even have the balls to sign Lisbon; he sent that worm David Milliband in his place.

  64. @Dongguan John – Not quite true. While David Millipede was the one at the ceremony he didn’t sign it on Gordon Brown’s behalf.

    What happened was that Gordon Brown missed the actually signing ceremony (accidentally on purpose as it were) and signed the document when nobody was looking the next day.

    For all his bluff and bluster Gordon the one-eyed Viking was afraid of the subsequent press reaction, so tried to minimise his role as far as possible.

    So both a coward AND a traitor.

  65. Bloke in North Dorset

    Once again thanks to MBE for keeping me on the straight and narrow.

    I also note that Callaghan wasn’t elected. What fun is to be had at Remainer’s expense.

  66. Gosh, so much has happened, where to start? I’ll keep to a few points.

    Kerslake- odious man. Rewarded for failure and deeply politicised civil ‘servant’. Often presented as impartial in the media, but anything but.

    Jim – not sure anyone commented on it, but voting on your understanding of principles and the common good rather than self interest is a noble thing. And I’m not just saying it because of the way you voted.

    Prorogration – despite the almighty flap, I haven’t seen one single full explanation as to why this is such a big deal (in reality – I get the political fuss).

    Prorogation is normal – very normal for a new government and after such a long session.

    It’s a historically rather long prorogation, but given conference recess was planned anyway it’s actually only taking four days of sitting.

    When parliament played remainer games before, it took just 2 days and 1 day. So parliament isn’t being shut down at all, just forced to decide a little quicker.

    Anyone know if these four days really are that important?

  67. M’Lud, what if the DPP were snowed under with private prosecutions for sedition/treason? Could they just delay them until the bureaucracy could proceed, or would the courts take a dim view of delay?

  68. @bis

    Weird isn’t it when even a casual glance at the opinion polls will tell you Britain is one of the most tolerant and least extreme places in Europe? Look what happened to the BNP, or UKIP once they went all Tommy Robinson, then compare it to the National Front (renamed), or the League in Italy, or AFD in Germany, or Vox in Spain, even the Scandi nationalists. The caring sharing Scandinavians!

    Also of interest are international social attitude surveys. “Would you accept your child marrying someone of a different race”, a neighbour of a different race, neighbour in same sex relationship etc. A self-loathing English liberal ought to be surprised how much their apparently regressive backward Brexidiot-ridden country turns out to be far ahead of the bulk of Europe in these matters.

    @Grikanth

    On the time issue, the assumption is the EU will offer further extensions, particularly if there is a chance of Brexit being cancelled.

    On the issue of supermajority – no such thing in Britain. But the indicative votes revealed there wasn’t even a simple majority in favour of any course of action, so we are stuck even so.

    @Oblong

    Remember that the new Queen’s Speech will itself eat up a huge amount of debating time. This is an under-remarked feature of the plan as far as I can see.

    @Jim

    Good grief, someone talking sense. Thanks for the link.

  69. I didn’t know that the Civil Service held ‘the stewardship of the country’.

    I thought that their job as to implement the policies of the government of the day, or resign if they felt unable to do so…

  70. I see that bitch Gina Miller is once again acting on our behalf, what a selfless saint she is. John Major has thrown his lot in with her.

  71. I see that bitch Gina Miller is once again acting on our behalf, what a selfless saint she is.

    Despite her pretending she is neutral (“Just protecting our democracy”), Gina Miller is little better than a 5th columnist for the interests of the EU Federacy.

    Having said that, we probably would have been stuck with Treason May’s WA capitulation treaty if she hadn’t gone to court last time around and forced a parliamentary vote.

    There is no doubt she thought the Remoaners in the HoC would repudiate the vote, but they didn’t, they effectively ratified it, albeit by a far narrower margin than they should.

    It is clear from the bullshit that Jolyon Maugham is pushing in the Scottish court case that they are trying to get Article 50 withdrawn, but I can’t see even Scottish judges going so far as to interfere with the normal functioning of parliament in such a manner as this mornings refusal to allow a interim interdict demonstrates. I doubt they will get any better result from the full hearing next week.

  72. Bloke in North Dorset

    Also of interest are international social attitude surveys. “Would you accept your child marrying someone of a different race”, a neighbour of a different race, neighbour in same sex relationship etc. A self-loathing English liberal ought to be surprised how much their apparently regressive backward Brexidiot-ridden country turns out to be far ahead of the bulk of Europe in these matters.

    The self loathing and intolerance belongs to Remainers:

    Nearly two-fifths of people who voted to remain in the EU would be ‘upset’ if their child married a leave supporter, a survey has suggested.

    A YouGov poll of 2,380 people found more than one in 10 (11 per cent) remainers would describe themselves as ‘very upset’ if their offspring hooked up with a Brexiteer, while another 28 per cent said they would be ‘somewhat upset’.

    However, only 11 per cent of leave voters said they would be in any way upset if their child married a pro-EU partner.

  73. However, only 11 per cent of leave voters said they would be in any way upset if their child married a pro-EU partner.

    As Francis Urquhart famously said at the beginning of House of Cards “Nothing lasts forever”. BRExit is important, but it is a passing hurricane, it too shall pass.

    Family is for life and more (since it is the source of future generations), so basing your views of a prospective son/daughter-in-law on their political opinion, especially Leave/Remain is a bit short-sighted to say the least.

  74. Mr Gent, I suspect that the DPP would get all the private prosecutions wrapped up in a single list in front of a high court judge sitting at the Bailey, and would seek to discontinue them, all in one fell swoop.

    Don’t expect the CPS to stint on throwing resources at the ‘problem’ either.

    It’s not really my thing, but a JR of the DPP’s stance might be brought. But, good luck with it.

  75. I would disagree there Mr Galt.

    At the very least support for remain implies immense stupidity. And much more likely socialist evil and a black, treacherous , deceitful traitor’s heart.

    Scum like the Facepainter is evidence enough.

  76. At the very least support for remain implies immense stupidity. And much more likely socialist evil and a black, treacherous , deceitful traitor’s heart.

    Perhaps and in that case my advice to a son or daughter would be to avoid as “A red flag”, but that is a rather wider range of issues than their position on BRExit (although one form of idiotic delusion does tend to lead to another).

    Certainly if a prospective son/daughter-in-law openly voices support for Remain this should be treated with caution as they may be retarded.

    🙂

  77. @Oblong August 30, 2019 at 7:31 am

    Yes, I forgot to thank Jim

    .
    “It’s a historically rather long prorogation” – Charles I prorogation was 11 Years

    .
    @Jim Thank you for putting country before self and voting leave. I know many who did same, including myself.

  78. I yield to none in my regard for Jim, based on his contributions here.

    But I deprecate the exaltation of that which ought, among Englishmen, to be ordinary.

    Full disclosure: aside from whatever mess can be made by the soap-dodgers, Proggies, Tranzis, luvvies and ‘activists’, I doubt any kind of Brexit will affect me. In short, I trust I’d do as Jim has.

    How’s the horse you rode into town on, Newmania?

  79. My situation is quite common among farmers, as they are one of the largest direct beneficiaries of EU money. Literally, in that they get paid cash direct to their accounts, its not even employment that results from EU monies (as was Spud’s case). And I’m not unusual – most surveys suggest that farmers voted about 50/50 in the referendum. My sister and BiL both voted out, they farm too, my parents (now retired so no longer directly benefiting from farming subsidies) also voted out.

    I think many farmers have come to realise that subsidies are not really helping them, that most of the money either accrues to landowners via higher rents or the suppliers of farming inputs, who can charge higher prices because they know the farmer has a subsidy cheque arriving every year. And by keeping lots of marginal producer producing production levels are artificially raised, and output prices depressed. So many have gotten so fed up with the constant grind of low output prices and constantly increasing input prices that they reckon anything has to be better than continuing as we were. Change will not be easy but change brings opportunity.

  80. @Edward Lud August 30, 2019 at 11:40 pm

    But I deprecate the exaltation of that which ought, among British, to be ordinary.

    +1

    As a Scout & Christian “…Think of others before yourself…”

    @Jim

    Change will not be easy but change brings opportunity.

    +1

    Opportunity to not be forced to copy “The Archers”

    Jim “How’s the rewilding farm going?”

    Green “Great, lots of wildlife, insects, wild plants”

    Jim “Crops?”

    Green “Keep it secret. It’s a disaster: foxes have killed all the poultry; crows killed all the lambs; thistles infested the fields cows feed in and they’ve starved;, nettles slugs, snails and aphids destroyed wheat crop. Next year it’s wolves back, but FoE have bought us with Gov’t – taxpayer – grant”

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