September 24, 2019 Tim Worstallblogs46 Comments previousErr, well, no, Senior LecturernextBut Joe and Hunter should be investigated 46 thoughts on “” PJF September 24, 2019 at 4:18 pm This must be for the calm Brexit discussion. Patrick September 24, 2019 at 5:57 pm So how do we defeat the blob? The Empire Strikes Back. It is clear that the only answer must involve a healthy majority in parliament. Sack Cummings and break bread with Nige? Pcar September 24, 2019 at 6:43 pm @Patrick Johnson confirmed again today “No pact with Brexit Party, we’ll stand in every constituency” Rob September 24, 2019 at 7:08 pm Johnson confirmed again today “No pact with Brexit Party, we’ll stand in every constituency” May redux, “we want to lose”. Inconceivable that he cannot see the opportunity here. Flubber September 24, 2019 at 8:15 pm May redux, “we want to lose”. Inconceivable that he cannot see the opportunity here. Its party before country. They do not want any competition for votes on the “right” Steve September 24, 2019 at 8:16 pm Sack Cummings and break bread with Nige? The only person fit to make the first call is Boris Johnson. We don’t know what DomCum is up to, what advice he’s giving, and what advice has been taken. We only have rumours and gossip to go on, particularly if one watches the news. On the second, it’s too early. We need a general election before there are political horses to be traded. And a pact is not the Panglossian solution people seem to assume – voters have never been particularly enthusiastic about this sort of thing before. It might work out better if the Tories and Brexies don’t do a formal BFF thingy, and just quietly allocate their resources in ways that maximise the chances of Brexit MP’s getting elected. So, wait and see. BniC September 24, 2019 at 8:46 pm Not standing isn’t going to go down well with local party members, also doesn’t look good to the electorate as it’s saying you know there’s no need to bother there. A token effort while not getting in the way of a Brexit Party candidate would be better overall, would be better for the Brexit party not having stood before to be selective about where they sit and that can be a behind the scenes deal or just an understanding between two BniC September 24, 2019 at 8:49 pm Saying in seats you have no chance that you won’t hold it against local party people to campaign for Brexit party or even vote for them would also be sensible. As long as Tories can secure a safe majority then TBP can stay out of marginals that would hurt Conservative and still operate as a protest vote and a frightener for Labour/Lib-Dems even if they don’t win any MPs BniC September 24, 2019 at 8:51 pm Anyone else surprised about the 11-0 ruling, seems it would have been more sensible for Court to have some dissenting voices and says its difficult but overall we agree than present a whitewash Itellyounothing September 24, 2019 at 8:57 pm Keep the opinion polls firmly against Jez and Swindon. Just keep being angry until after the next GE and its job done… Theophrastus September 24, 2019 at 9:04 pm Steve + 10 bloke in spain September 24, 2019 at 9:17 pm I’m with BniC’s second comment. What’s the point of Tories standing in Labour Leave seats where they haven’t a hope of winning? Don’t think the Tories realise how toxic they are. The only thing’s keeping them high in the polls is the front bench is nominally Leave. You look at the scum sitting behind them… Why would you vote for them? Does anyone really want more of the arseholes being returned to Parliament Edward Lud September 24, 2019 at 9:36 pm Re the 11 to 0 thing. Hm. Yes, it’s striking. Especially since Sumption, recently retired, would have been the – 1 against. So what happened? A purge? A long awaited deleting of the last impediment to untrammelled Snoot governance? Search me. Be interesting, tho, to be a fly on the wall as DJT reads despatches from his man at the court of St James. “ho ho. Dysfunctional, you say? No hope of improvement? Hm. Colluding with a foreign power?” Itellyounothing September 24, 2019 at 10:01 pm Looks like Supreme Court reform just got added to Nige’s to do list…… Jim September 24, 2019 at 10:13 pm I’m fast becoming in favour of some Cultural Revolution style treatment for anyone involved in the legal profession. Sorry Mr Lud, but you’ll have to labour in the fields for the good of the nation too. You can come and work on my farm, I promise not to work you too hard, and you and all your fellow legal parasites can learn how to become productive members of society again. Edward Lud September 24, 2019 at 10:27 pm Fair enough, Jim. Pretty disgusted by my profession. Not for the first time. Worked on a farm when I was younger, daresay I can do it again. How are you blokes with knackered middle-aged sophists? PJF September 24, 2019 at 10:37 pm So, wait and see. Problem is, people are waiting and they’re seeing loserdom. Following the strong horse is something we associate with foreign but is actually a general human trait. If the Remain establishment keep winning, a lot of middle grounders will go their way simply because of that. It would be nice if this was the part near the end of the movie where the hero is getting beaten up but is suddenly going to find resolve, bounce back and smash the baddie down. But if it doesn’t happen soon people are going to sneak off to another screen and watch Remains of the Day. Chernyy_Drakon September 24, 2019 at 11:03 pm Problem is, people are waiting and they’re seeing loserdom. Are they? I see a vote that I and lots of others voted for being ignored, frustrated and stitched up by a bunch of arrogant jackasses who lost the vote but don’t accept the result because think they know better. They are doing this by breaking all the conventions that have governed our system for hundreds of years. Speaker impartiality, separation of legislature and executive, breaking manifesto commitments (ok, not so unusual – but ones this big?). At the same time, they stop a general election and then have the cheek to complain about a lack of democracy. I can’t be the only one in the country, aside from Ecks who is looking at this and getting increasingly angry. On a completely unrelated note, Nov 5th is just over a month away. Fireworks anyone? Jim September 24, 2019 at 11:05 pm “How are you blokes with knackered middle-aged sophists” Given most of the work involves sitting on a machine nowadays, being knackered is no great handicap, and you can always practise your oratory on the cattle, they’re curious creatures, they love a spectacle…. Edward Lud September 24, 2019 at 11:18 pm I love a docile tribunal, Jim… Jim September 24, 2019 at 11:33 pm There’s probably about as much mental capacity in a herd of cows as the average jury anyway….. Steve September 24, 2019 at 11:41 pm Problem is, people are waiting and they’re seeing loserdom. Disagree. I think you’re understandably frustrated, but you need to understand that you’re not alone. If the Remain establishment keep winning, a lot of middle grounders will go their way simply because of that. No, the exact opposite is true. Bercow, Grieve, Big Fat Emily Thornberry, that batty old cow from the Blair Court, etc. are building up public disgust with the establishment, creating fertile ground for the scary populism they claim to oppose. They’re not popular characters, and their actions aren’t making them more popular. That’s why they’re shit scared of an election. (BTW, the idea that forcing Boris into asking for an extension will somehow translate into a Labour victory is desperate stuff, and won’t work) There was a window of opportunity where TPTB could’ve wangled BRINO and, while Nigel Farage would’ve been unhappy, most people would’ve just gone on with their lives. That window has closed, thanks to Remainers. The EU is now radioactive, we simply can’t stay. Think about how this plays out: * Second referendum which Remain wins = a political situation only slightly more stable than the Weimar Republic. The Brexit Party or something like it replaces the Conservatives within maybe two election cycles at most, every election becomes another referendum on Brexit. The next time the EU tries to sign a treaty or admit another Member State, what do you think happens in Britain? Calm acquiescence? Ha ha, no. * Cancelling Article 50 = see above * BRINO = see above They’ve won every battle that doesn’t involve consulting the electorate, and in doing so have strategically fucked themselves. Friedrich Paulus couldn’t have done it better. It would be nice if this was the part near the end of the movie The problem with this is we don’t live in a film. Not a Hollywood blockbuster anyway, maybe an Iannucci comedy. Yes, it’d be nice if Boris Johnson would “do something”, but it’s more important that he does things that are meaningful. He has a couple of major assets: * By law, we’re leaving the EU on October 31 * He’s the head of government If he can maintain the status quo for just 5 weeks or so, we win. If he can’t, we win later. people are going to sneak off to another screen and watch Remains of the Day. That’s the one thing they definitely won’t do. Why? Because TPTB won’t leave them alone. If you’re going to be a corrupt oligarchy running a shitty banana republic, you’d bloody well better make sure the proles don’t see their living standards fall too much, or they’ll start getting froggy. What gives you the idea they’re clever enough to leave people alone? PJF September 24, 2019 at 11:44 pm Are they? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/poll-shows-public-backs-courts-decision-remains-divided-brexit/ Piers Morgan is a cock but he’s also a weathercock with a nose that runs with public opinion. Less than a month ago he was clashing with restainer Gary Lineker over the suspension of parliament, now he’s calling Boris a traitor for the same. Note, I’m not saying Brexit = loserdom, I’m saying BoJo’s government = loserdom. But Brexit will get tainted with that. They are doing this by breaking all the conventions that have governed our system for hundreds of years. Speaker impartiality, separation of legislature and executive, breaking manifesto commitments… Yes they are, and they’re looking like ruthless, scummy bastards for doing so. They’re also winning by doing so. Again and again. People will follow ruthless, scummy bastards who win. Brexit needs a winner. Instead we have Boris, who is going have on Thursday (Bercow permitting) another vote for holding a GE. Which he will lose. Mr Ecks September 25, 2019 at 12:04 am How many times PJF–the polls are run by the same leftist cunts. Like remains bogus marches and petitions they are part of the act. Morgan is still a paid hack in a media massively run by the remain gang. Keep losing is not a good look for Johnson. But Bercow as dominatrix that the population are weakwank enough to grovel after is just bullshit. You may mix with such types but if so you need to move in better circles. PJF September 25, 2019 at 12:10 am * Second referendum which Remain wins [* Cancelling Article 50 * BRINO] = a political situation only slightly more stable than the Weimar Republic. The Brexit Party or something like it replaces the Conservatives within maybe two election cycles at most, every election becomes another referendum on Brexit. The next time the EU tries to sign a treaty or admit another Member State, what do you think happens in Britain? Calm acquiescence? Ha ha, no I think you vastly overestimate the general public’s resolve and enthusiasm for all this. Mr Ecks September 25, 2019 at 12:11 am I’m reposting this here from the previous thread because it makes the vital point via Steve. IF THE SCUM WIN THEY AREN’T GOING TO JUST LEAVE US ALONE . If the scum win on Brexit that is the start of a very dark and nasty road for ordinary folk in this nation and across Europe itself. ““The establishment needs its collective nose rubbed in Brexit. The alternative is passively accepting the fate they have planned for us as a post-democratic post-nation: eating a cold bowl of insects in our freezing cold eco-yurts while the local mosque ululates the call to benefits and unaccountable nabobs zip by in their Zil lanes.” Absolutely correct Steve–got it in one paragraph. The French understand too–which is why they are still fighting the violence of Macron’s costumed thugs 45 weeks on. They know EU stooge Maccers is trying to get the above ball rolling by pricing them out of their cars. That would only be step one of the globo elite’s nasty plans for us all. Even–sooner or later–including well off remainiac shite like the Facepainter. Such types think they are elite–but they are just useful idiot oiks to the globos. Their turn arrives as soon as their usefulness is outlived. Mr Ecks September 25, 2019 at 12:15 am PJF–If you want a vehicle for cowardly despair and defeatism get a twitter channel or your own BBC talk show. Stop trolling us with your weak nature. We shall die trying and don’t need a defeat-cheering section ta very much. KrakowJosh September 25, 2019 at 12:21 am I’ve had a few of the “Boris, Cummings, Farage – you boys just took one hell of a beating” type messages today. I’m with Steve – I think the medium-sized lady is still shovelling down the carbs backstage in-between gargles of honey and lemon. David Moore September 25, 2019 at 12:22 am Agree with Chernyy_Drakon, the British are not just going to follow the strong horse. There is, I think, a very large chance the majority see this for exactly what it is, a rewriting of Government in the UK for the benefit of a select few directly in the face of the people of the UK. PJF September 25, 2019 at 12:24 am If you’re going to be a corrupt oligarchy running a shitty banana republic, you’d bloody well better make sure the proles don’t see their living standards fall too much, or they’ll start getting froggy. Never bothered Mugabe much. David Moore September 25, 2019 at 12:28 am Mr Ecks “Keep losing is not a good look for Johnson.” As long as he loses in the right way, it doesn’t do much harm and may even strengthen him for an election. So, losing court cases while standing clearly for Brexit isn’t the best outcome, but at least he is drawing a clear line between ‘the people’ and ‘the establishment’. His only real chance of success is to fight that line all the way, and never to blink. Mr Ecks September 25, 2019 at 12:28 am The UK has fallen far–but we aren’t African tribesmen with zero history of personal freedom just yet PJF. David Moore September 25, 2019 at 12:32 am Steve, ““The establishment needs its collective nose rubbed in Brexit. The alternative is passively accepting the fate they have planned for us as a post-democratic post-nation: eating a cold bowl of insects in our freezing cold eco-yurts while the local mosque ululates the call to benefits and unaccountable nabobs zip by in their Zil lanes.” Awesome summary. Prof Paul Ehrlich is the theologian behind these people. Mr Ecks September 25, 2019 at 12:34 am David Moore–To an extent I agree with you–the remainiac scum are now gathered in one arrogant clot and whatever they do just makes their scummy EU dicksucking treason all the more obvious and enraging. Refusing another GE on Thursday is of benefit to Johnson not detriment. It shows again that they want their will imposed on us and dare not take us on at a GE. No amount of bullshit from Piers Morgan or any one else can hide that fact. PJF September 25, 2019 at 12:48 am If you want a vehicle for cowardly despair and defeatism get a twitter channel or your own BBC talk show. Stop trolling us with your weak nature. We shall die trying and don’t need a defeat-cheering section ta very much. I’m simply pointing out some facts on the map, Ecks. But if you want to shout and throw your pencils at them, that’s fine entertainment. Mr Ecks September 25, 2019 at 1:01 am You have been a nay sayer all along. This is a war and spreading alarm and despair–or trying to–would have got you jail time during WW2. Rumourists taking a perverse pleasure in painting it black are an enemy asset–even if they are just wanting to indulge their ego. PJF September 25, 2019 at 1:37 am This is a war and spreading alarm and despair–or trying to–would have got you jail time during WW2. You really are a preposterous fellow, Mr Ecks. PJF September 25, 2019 at 2:41 am This would be fun: https://reformclub.blogspot.com/2019/09/will-boris-johnson-play-hard-ball-with.html BniC September 25, 2019 at 5:28 am When MPs are opening posting that they should wait until they have forced PM to ask for an extension before they allow a GE you know they have become drunk on their supposed power and really don’t see how that sounds to the electorate Patrick September 25, 2019 at 7:27 am Sadly, I’m now hoping that Scotland will save us – by voting itself independence. Beef stealers and Norn Iron likewise. The only practical route back to sanity is via a majority in parliament. An English Parliament. Go Nicola! Rob Moss September 25, 2019 at 8:42 am As far as an agreement between the Tories and the Brexit Party is concerned, to make that work, you have to let the other lot (Liberal Democrats, Green Party, Plaid Cymru) do that first, so it’s a response, not an initiative. “Reluctantly, we have no choice but to…” and so on. Bloke in North Dorset September 25, 2019 at 8:59 am As far as an agreement between the Tories and the Brexit Party is concerned, to make that work, you have to let the other lot (Liberal Democrats, Green Party, Plaid Cymru) do that first, so it’s a response, not an initiative. “Reluctantly, we have no choice but to…” and so on. I don’t like formal pacts, they look like a stitch up of the electorate as well as being open to local parties sabotaging them if they think they’ve been given a bad deal. Far better to let local Brexiteers decide on the best course of action. I’m sure some Tories will quietly not campaign in Labour heartland seats where they would have no chance but TBP would do well, mostly ex-UKIP strongholds. Ditto some Tory Leave areas where TBPer’s will not want to rock the boat. Central committees trying to share out the spoils is a recipe for disaster, leave that path to the enemy. Baron Jackfield September 25, 2019 at 11:03 am @Edward Lud – September 24, 2019 at 10:27 pm Fair enough, Jim. Pretty disgusted by my profession. Not for the first time. In the dim and distant past, after receiving my LLB, during which I endured the arcane “pleasures” of “dining in” a couple of times per term at Middle Temple, I was asked by my supervisor at “graduation drinkies” if I was going to enter the profession. I told him that having seen the operation of the legal system from “the inside” I was instead going to get an honest job – possibly playing the piano in a whorehouse or similar. Looking at the present shenanigans, I’m glad I did. Chernyy_Drakon September 25, 2019 at 12:40 pm @Baron Jackfield That raises questions far more important than any of this Brexit stuff. Which whorehouse do you play in and can you get us a discount? Rational Anarchist September 25, 2019 at 3:56 pm What I don’t quite understand is how exactly this all works. They say that the purpose of parliament it to hold the executive to account. What normally happens is that the government controls the actions taken in the house, so the government control what laws are presented and then parliament can either accept or refuse those laws. As parliament is usually controlled by a majority that support the government, this works fairly simply. Now what if the government decides to prorogue for a long time? Well – they can’t bring any new laws, and parliament can’t deny or accept those laws – but otherwise not a lot changes. The powers to use statutory instruments to change things are fairly minor, and not something that needs approving or overseeing on a daily basis – after a few months should usually be fine. So what happens when the government doesn’t have a majority in parliament any more? If a bunch of MPs change sides, or vote against their own party (as has happened now). Well, firstly, parliament no longer reflects what the people voted for – so ideally we should have an election? But even without that, the government can bring laws and the parliament turn them down – still nothing much changes. A Prorogation just means the govt can’t get things done. So the big problem arises when the speaker changes the rules of parliament (specifically SO24) to allow the house to control the order book. This means that the role of the govt (to bring laws) is redundant, instead laws are brought by whatever majority can be formed, or can convince the speaker to let them take over. In this case, a prorogation prevents parliament from doing things, but I’d argue that they’re things that it shouldn’t be doing in the first place… Any way we can get a judicial review of Bercow’s decision to amend SO24, or use it incorrectly? After all, the rules say that it can only be used to call a vote on whether or not the house has debated a topic, but he let them use it to take control of the order book. Pcar September 25, 2019 at 9:19 pm @bloke in spain September 24, 2019 at 9:17 pm Yes. Lot’s of Leavers, esp oop north, would never vote Tory; yet they now hate Labour – C4 news have shown some. They would vote Brexit Party Farage has correctly allocated Left and other attributes candidates to where they will appeal to Labour & LibDem voters . @Edward Lud September 24, 2019 at 9:36 pm Read through full judgement: Lady H starts by saying ruling nothing to do with Politics or Brexit, then later contradicts and says it was political and Brexit. Furthermore, para (article) 50 creates a new law. As did Scotland judges with “Lying to Monarch” law – EU inspired Parliament, Gov’t & MPs and democracy no longer rule UK. Lawyers and Blair’s Supreme Court do.* . @Steve September 24, 2019 at 11:41 pm +1 . Pipsqueak Toad Bercow: “Parliament is the legislator and can do whatever it wants” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sre4TzbCUw8 Blair’s Supreme Court has ruled Parliament & Gov’t are not, SC is. One would have thought lawyers decreeing they, not MPs, run country would be condemned by msm, instead they welcome it. Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.