No, not really


So he asked me if I’d take him to the station so that he could get into college in Cambridge on time, which I admit I do not do very often. And I agreed.

My reward was a tirade about how unjust it is that he, as a 17-year-old with a lifetime of living with Brexit ahead of him, will not get the vote at a general election that will decide that issue.

And he’s right. Of course, I’m biased about him: that’s a father’s duty. But I’m not about his friends. And he, and they, are more than capable of making an informed decision on what they want from a government, and their future.

It’s a farce that they will be denied a vote on an issue so important for them.

That’s he’s currently going to college is proof perfect that he and we regard hims as currently insufficiently educated. Why in buggery should he have the vote then?

37 thoughts on “No, not really”

  1. Ask any brain-specialist and they’ll tell you the brain isn’t fully developed until the mid-20s.

    Until then a person’s actions are more likely to be impulsive, reactionary, more immediate, less long term. 10 years’ time? impossible to consider.

    The impetuosity of youth is biological.

    Add to that, a teenager is much less likely to have ‘stuff’ so any politician coming along and saying that he’ll take ‘stuff’ off old people and give it to them is going to attract support.

    And to a teenager, 30 is ‘old’ and they’re incapable of projecting to the point where they might be 30 and they might have their own stuff.

    It’s an argument to put the voting age up to 26. At least.

  2. May I suggest that the young man be appointed lecturer, along with the sakary. The present lot are clearly over the hill.

  3. “It’s the start of term. And wet. And my son had left his bike at the station. So he asked me if I’d take him to the station so that he could get into college in Cambridge on time, which I admit I do not do very often. And I agreed.”

    How did you do that Richard? Carry him on your shoulders with an umbrella over his head? Or did you drive him in your gas guzzling CO2 creating machine? Tell him to take a fucking boat, Greta did after all.

    “My reward was a tirade about how unjust it is that he, as a 17-year-old with a lifetime of living with Brexit ahead of him, will not get the vote at a general election that will decide that issue.”

    This will be the son that has a video on Facebook of a fleshlight on an exhaust pipe? Yep, he needs to be trusted with Brexit decisions. Given he’s fat like his old man he could do with a walk in the rain.

  4. I remember the injustice of being a 17 year old in 1975 and being unable to vote against the EEC in that referendum; so it all balances out.

  5. The cut off has to be somewhere. 18 seems a reasonable balance of maturity and introducing youth to the grown up world of rights and responsibilities. Also they might have had a little life experience.

    If we change it down to 16, then we could make the same argument about 14 year olds. Then gradually younger and younger.

    Also, if we lower it to 16, are 16 year olds going to be subject to the responsibilities that accompany majority? Such as being tried as an adult or drafted to be marched in front of a machine gun in a pointless politician’s war?

  6. I was four in 1975 and due to the anti-democratic neoliberal voting rules was denied a vote in the EEC referendum. My sister wasn’t born until 1980 and was denied a vote on the entirely spurious grounds she didn’t exist at the time. Yet both of us have had to deal with being in the EU for the last 45 years against our wishes.

    I therefore demand the power to tell every one else what to do, because I’m an authoritarian fascist cunt.

  7. Extend the franchise to whoever will vote your way. It’s the way of the Left. It’s not the kid’s age, it’s the way he will vote. Eventually, he too will be replaced by a Sudanese ‘refugee.’

    But Trump and Boris are “destroying democracy.”

  8. Bloke in North Dorset

    “I remember the injustice of being a 17 year old in 1975 and being unable to vote against the EEC in that referendum; so it all balances out.”

    I was 18 in 1975 and remember voting Yes because all the great and good told me it would better and that we weren’t heading for further integration.

    Boy did I get that wrong, but it didn’t take long to learn that the great good lie in pursuit of their own ends and have no interest in me or my family.

  9. @BiND

    I was 18 in 1975 and remember voting Yes because all the great and good told me it would better and that we weren’t heading for further integration.

    #MeToo. But as the saying goes, “Fool me once…”

  10. Yet curiously the young who go off to fight for ISIS and the like shouldn’t face any sanctions because they are so immature and naive and easily led.
    “Young” in that case seems to extend well into the 20s.

  11. “Yet curiously the young who go off to fight for ISIS and the like shouldn’t face any sanctions because they are so immature and naive and easily led.”

    A very good point. One wonders if the rules on criminal responsibility would also be changed? If 16 is mature enough to vote and decide on the future of the nation, then they shouldn’t get special treatment in the criminal justice system either. I look forward to seeing pictures, names and addresses of all the diverse ‘yutes’ currently hidden by the juvenile justice system……..

  12. By an amazing coincidence it turns out that young people, being foolish and ignorant, are more likely to vote for parties the Fat One supports. This, of course, has no influence on his opinion of whether 16 year olds should get the vote.

  13. I constantly hear that leaving the Eu will stop young people from the ability to work on the continent. Strangely enough in my visits to belgium, france, luxembourg, germany, portugal , austria, czech republic, slovakia and portugal in the last few years i’ve yet to meet any young english people working in said countries. Plenty of poles, french , portugese etc working in the uk mind.

  14. Philip Scott Thomas

    What Andrew C said.

    The frontal lobes aren’t fully developed until about age 25. Further, until about that age one has no original opinions; they’re all second-hand simply because one hasn’t had sufficient experience of life. That’s why, if it were up to me, I’d raise the voting age to 25.

  15. I worked in France in 1991, before Maastricht.

    Come to that, part of my gap yah was in Israel in 1990-1, and we did not need to be in a political union with Israel to manage that, either.

  16. If 17 year olds can’t buy alcohol, borrow money, tobacco, become soldiers etc, they should not be able to vote. The annoying thing is that many people who want this change. Only want to give them the vote and nothing else.

  17. BiND,

    In what universe was Ted Heath great or good? The nicest thing I can say about him is that it is extremely improbable he was a pedophile.

  18. “start of term”. “17”. So is that “college” in the sense of school or tech college rather than in the Cambridge sense of a College?

    Or is he writing about events some time ago?

  19. of course the potato himself was too young to vote in the 1975 referendum, but that’s different because people were fooled into voting the “right” way

  20. I constantly hear that leaving the Eu will stop young people from the ability to work on the continent.

    If they do work there, ironically they’ll be talking to them loudly in English, because hardly any of them speak a word of a European language.

  21. You missed the big one*, Anon.

    17 year olds can’t own property (at least in the U.S.). There have been many who said that ONLY property owners should be allowed to vote.

    *I would have said biggie, but a couple of our fine commenters would have bristled.

  22. “My reward was a tirade about how unjust it is that he, as a 17-year-old with a lifetime of living with Brexit ahead of him, will not get the vote at a general election that will decide that issue.”

    Yeah right. Along with all the journos ask you questions you’re itching to answer.

    What you actually got was an aching silence with the kid thinking to him self “Christ! I hope no one sees me in a car with this drongo. Me cred’ll be shot for the year”

  23. @bis – you’ve got to be sorry for the kids –
    “dad what’s happened to Rover” – “sorry the vet wanted £10 a month for medication so i beat him to death with this shovel- now get digging”
    “dad – I want a car” – “begone foul destroyer of the planet!”
    “dad should i start a pension” – “what’s wrong with you! – you’re robbing the poor of any decent standard of living” etc, etc.
    Let’s hope the little darlings grow up to work in the city as merchant bankers, drive round in big fuck off cars and spend all their time flying off around the world.

  24. “And he, and they, are more than capable of making an informed decision on what they want from a government, and their future.”

    So, if he decided to go off and join the Foreign Legion . . .

    To father a child?

    To rob a bank?

  25. “Steve
    September 4, 2019 at 11:02 am

    STARSHIP TROOPERS style libertarian fascism when?”

    That’s us baby!

    Planning to take over the world so we can leave you alone.

  26. I wonder if there are any issues on which Master Murphy strongly disagrees with his dad.

    Hard to believe that if Master M really is ready to vote, he agrees with dad on everything

    Am not sure the old man would be easy to live with for a dissenting son.

  27. Bloke in North Dorset

    David C,

    Master BiND and I fought like cats and dogs over politics when he was 17*.

    Now we tend to be in alignment on most issues, and I haven’t changed my mind.

    *TBF he was right on Iraq, I thought no PM would be allowed to get away with such behaviour.

  28. Actually only recently got around to reading Starship Troopers, found some of its descriptions of how society disintegrated to be well ahead of their time (for when it was written) and increasingly like current reality.

  29. Yeah starship troopers is a book. Which is mainly about political theory – the bug-blasting is very much the secondary thing.

    The makers of the movie totally missed the point… I’m not sure they read anything more than the title, although it’s kind of fun in its own cheesy way.

  30. And ‘Bill the Galactic Hero’ (Harry Harrison, pbuh) is a massive piss-take of ‘Starship Troopers’.

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