Heinz Kiosk is alive and well

Informing Spacely-Trellis as well:

Centuries of Christian anti-Semitism led to the Holocaust, a landmark Church of England report has concluded. In a foreword to the report, published today, the Archbishop of Canterbury said that Christians cannot challenge and reflect on the past honestly, “until we have felt the cruelty of our history”.

The document, which has been three years in the making, was prepared by the Church’s Faith and Order Commission and entitled: God’s Unfailing World: Theological and practical perspectives on Christian-Jewish relations.

It urges Christians to not only be repentant for the “sins of the past” against Jews, but also to challenge active attitudes and stereotypes.

It also marks the first time that the Church of England has made an authoritative statement on the subject of anti-Semitism.

The new “tool for teaching” on Christian-Jewish relations acknowledges that Christian theology played a part in the “stereotyping and persecution fo Jewish people which ultimately led to the Holocaust”.

We are all guilty.

41 thoughts on “Heinz Kiosk is alive and well”

  1. So I’m as guilty as the old Marxist bastard with the stroke glasses who talks about Zionists not understanding English irony?

  2. What led to the anti-Semitism in the middle-east and in the Soviet Union, I wonder?

    I have often wondered if this middle-class urge to blame us/them for literally everything bad that has ever happened is a sexual fetish.

  3. It’s like the local yob committing a dastardly crime, “apparently” influenced by the community around him – whereas, actually, he’s just a worthless tosser. But no, it’s really the fault of everyone else around him, who weren’t in fact committing any crimes at all….

    And we pay these fuckwits?

  4. There are others who have been making this same argument for a long time.

    “She wasn’t sufficiently covered up, therefore it was really her fault, rather than mine…”

    Maybe the Archbishop is playing for the wrong team?

  5. You won’t find any antisemitism in the evangelical part of Christianity. They are extremely pro-Israel, the Jews are Gods Chosen People you see.

    The Archbish’s section of Christianity on the other hand, well lets just say that lefty CoE vicars tend to not be the biggest fans of Israel…………..beams and motes Archbish, beams and motes…………..

  6. I would separate the acts of Christians from the acts of the Church. The Church has good reason to search its conscience for a lot of things. Christians ought to attend to the strictures of the book, not the Church. If you didn’t do the sin, how can you be responsible? If you are doing it right now and passing it off as anti-zionism how can you not?

  7. FFS

    Instead of being proud for the deeds done by Nicholas Winton and Frank Foley* and the fact that we as a nation helped defeat the Nazis, we’re supposed to go on another guilt trip.

    Fuck off.

    *Frank Foley’s story is a one of a gob smacking tale too far fetched to be true, except that it is. A working class lad who considered becoming a priest before pursuing an academic and then military career. Fluent in German and French he fought in WWI before joining the intelligence Corp in July 1918 and helped run agents in France Belgium and the Netherlands.

    He joined MI6 and was posted to Germany in the 20s and 30s where despite having no official diplomatic immunity he disobeyed instructions, doctored exit visas and bent every rule he could think of to help thousands of Jews to leave Germany (including bluffing concentration camp guards to release prisoners and hiding Jews in his home en route out of Germany). He was also a bit of a lad whose ability to be in night clubs until the early hours and still put in long days in the office impressed his younger colleagues.

    Stationed in Norway in 1940 he fled north ahead of the evading Germans, helped co-ordinate what little resistance Britain could offer and helped the King Of Norway escape to the UK.

    In 1941 he was one of the chief interrogators of Rudolf Hess and at one point ate Hess’ lunch to prove to the paranoid German that he wasn’t secretly being poisoned. He then helped run the hugely successful ‘double cross’ system of agents.

    After the war he returned to Germany where he helped track down ex-SS and Nazi war criminals.

    He retired in 1949 and died in 1958 and as his neighbours confessed, they never had a clue about the quiet little man’s past.

    A true, quiet unassuming British hero and the kind of events we ought to be celebrating rather than constantly being expected to flagellate ourselves about our past as a nation.

    I recommend Michael Smith’s book – Foley; The Spy Who Saved 10,000 Jews.

  8. Just a cohencidence that Welby’s an Eskimo; and that centuries of well documented Eskimo in-group preference and textually grounded anti-Christian scheming are a complete myth…

    No matter their real world power and privilege, Eskimos must always have a cerimonial role atop the victimhood totem.

  9. On the other hand, christians have not been treated nicely by muslims and yet are required to embrace and them and celebrate islam. Christians will be running out of other cheeks to turn.

  10. Andrew C – Instead of being proud for the deeds done by Nicholas Winton and Frank Foley* and the fact that we as a nation helped defeat the Nazis,

    Christianity may explain some historical anti-Semitism (which itself is an oddly tendentious way to describe Jewish-Christian mutual hostility, given how enthusiastically Jews persecuted Christians starting with Jesus himself), but its like watching Andy Ruiz Jr punching Anthony Joshua and concluding that Ruiz is somehow a racist against black and/or British people.

    There’s a much better theory based on evolutionary psychology. If you’re a minority group that has chosen to live as a diaspora in other people’s countries, and you wish to retain your distinctive identity, the very last thing you need is tolerance and acceptance from your hosts.

    That would lead to intermarriage, and then the evaporation of the tribe.

    So you’d (perhaps subconsciously) adopt shibboleths, mannerisms and cultural practices designed to maintain a level of tension between yourselves and your hosts.

    Which explains the amazing lack of gratitude evidenced by Eric Hobsbawm and Ed Miliband’s dad. We saved them from the Nazis, and they repaid us by consistently attacking British interests and agitating for us to be brought under Communist tyranny.

  11. Good insight, Steve. The writ against Jews is that they won’t give up their culture. Which they shouldn’t. Which rubs strident societies the wrong way. E.g., the Nazis.

    It is a meter. The British Left’s dive into antisemitism shows they are becoming strident.

  12. Steve,

    “How long before the CeeOfEee denounces this Jesus Christ fella for anti-Semitism and homophobia?”

    Oh, it’s quite possible. There’s priests out there who don’t believe in the immaculate conception or the resurrection.

    The church is like all organisations that lose their market. Religion thrives on the reasonable chance of death. If your harvest fails and you die, you’re taking a bet on the after-life. You get 20th century medicine, decline of war, welfare state and you probably won’t. This is why churches are full of old people.

    With that decline, money has decreased and so has status. Our vicar when I was a kid had a quite nice 4 bed house and 3 kids. Why is the priesthood overrun with women, and the sort of women that would normally have a Cat of the Month subscription with the Blue Cross? Because there’s no status. It also means they get the sort of people who are sod all use anywhere else, like lefties.

  13. Bloke in North Dorset

    So as a godless heathen born after the fact it can’t be mine fault then, straight white male or no?

    Of course it is, check your privileged which flowed straight and from anti-semitism and racism through mechanisms of the like only the left shall know.

  14. BoM4, your summation of reasons for the decline of the church work here for the CofE, but not for other religions or all other countries. In the USA churches are full of all sorts of people. Even democrats.

    As far as women vicars are concerned, women devalue any profession they enter. It’s all equality and first names. No pretence of earned authority at all. Curse of our times.

  15. Gamecock – Thanks

    The British Left’s dive into antisemitism shows they are becoming strident.

    I don’t think it’s as simple as that tho. Is Jon Lansman, the very Jewish founder of Momentum, a secret anti-Semite? Seems unlikely.

    I reckon lefty Jew-drama is the conflation of two things:

    * The traditional anti-Israel stance of the European left (including anti-Zionist, pro-Commie Jews) displacing the Neocons from their position of power in the Labour Party. The British establishment was hoping to replicate the Libya disaster in Syria.

    * The Islamification of the Left (Muslims vote Labour at something like 85% and keep having babies)

    It’s an Alien versus Predator deal – whoever wins, we lose. Neither side in lefty sectarian politics wants Western Civilization to continue.

    BoM4 – Religion thrives on the reasonable chance of death

    Well, our chances of dying are 100%, so…

    I think you’re on to something tho. Something something rich men and the eye of a needle. We’re all insanely rich compared with the ancient Israelites.

    We’re also – not coincidentally – a predominantly urban species for the first time in human history, and are seeing the suicidal effect that has on social capital and birth rates.

    Nietzsche, who proclaimed the death of God, said “To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.”

    Religion is the traditional answer, but it’s more than merely an opiate of the masses, it’s a generative force.

  16. “BoM4, your summation of reasons for the decline of the church work here for the CofE, but not for other religions or all other countries. In the USA churches are full of all sorts of people. Even democrats.”

    Church in the USA is a hangout, like village churches in the UK. People in rural locations have sod all else to do but church and pub (and in the USA, they take a different view on alcohol).

    The power of church in the USA has declined considerably over the past 50 years.

  17. My neighbour in Texas was a baptist pastor. He invited us to a service at his church, where he was one of seven pastors. Although not religious, we went (and to support the main speaker, a bloke from Sunderland. Yes that Sunderland!). 2500 people there, a full house. Another 2500 in a second service later. This was in a Dallas suburb, not rural by any measure. There are thousands of other churches. The Church is a centre of family life and social life. It provides a ton of benefits to members. Events, child care, emergency assistance. I do not claim that such things are as common in more northern or coastal states, and I wasn’t there fifty years ago, but if this is post-decline it still looks pretty healthy to me.

  18. @BoM4
    There’s priests out there who don’t believe in the immaculate conception or the resurrection.

    The immaculate conception is a (purely Catholic) doctrine that Mary was conceived without original sin. Not to be confused with the virgin birth (which, I’m sure you’re right, plenty of CofE vicars have been denying since at least the 60s).

  19. Time for a top up of the Jewish victimhood narrative is it?

    After all, people have noticed that there seem to be a lot of -stein sex abusers out there, and that their activities seem to have been covered up by lots of other -steins; just look at the leadership at ABC/NBC.

    Also people have noticed that the white privilege/supremacy attack is coming from a very specific group of people, and are starting to wonder why the “anti racists” seem so comfortable being racist…

    Remember, no noticing is allowed, to do so is apparently anti-Semitic.

  20. @Steve

    * The Islamification of the Left (Muslims vote Labour at something like 85% and keep having babies)

    +1

    Muslim population of England & Wales per census;

    1961 50,000
    1971 226,000
    1981 553,000
    1991 950,000
    2001 1,600,000
    2011 2,706,000
    2017 (est GB) 3,373,000 (ONS)

    ONS estimated 337,000 Jews in 2017.

  21. Dennis, Crusher of Fools

    Remember, no noticing is allowed, to do so is apparently anti-Semitic.

    There’s a difference between noticing and drawing a completely incorrect conclusion from what you’ve noticed, asshole.

  22. There’s a difference between noticing and drawing a completely incorrect conclusion from what you’ve noticed

    What incorrect about noticing that anti-white racism is not just the only acceptable racism, its being positively encouraged? For example, the monolithic agenda of Hollywood wokeness isn’t escaping people’s attention.

    Ah, like Steve Sailer said, political correctness is a war on noticing things.

  23. @ Steve …an oddly tendentious way to describe Jewish-Christian mutual hostility…

    That’s the thing no-one ever wants to talk about or admit to.
    I grew up in a very jewish part of London. A third of the boys in my class at secondary school were jewish. As a result, I’m inevitably culturally part jewish. I’m familiar with many of the religious requirements & proscriptions. I still inadvertently tend to use yiddish expressions in my speech because english just doesn’t have the words for the concepts. I can easily pass as jewish even with jews. I’m more jewish than they are. I lived with a jewish woman for some years & am still part of an extended jewish family. Except I’m not. I’m a yok.
    And that’s the thing. The moment of realisation when they realise this stranger they just met isn’t one of them but other. Everything subtly changes. Used to get it meeting the Aunts (capitalisation intended). When being a prospective husband for the wayward niece became… very much not a prospective husband for the wayward niece.
    Am I anti-semitic? I’d say I’m anti-semitic in the same way my jewish ex-girlfriend is anti-semitic. It’s not a way of going on that’s particularly pleasant to interact with. And it’s something that’s present within the jewish community itself. The more religious distancing themselves from the less religious. Ask any Israeli about the friction between the sabra & the more orthodox later arrivals.

  24. Dennis, He Who Lacks A "Stein"

    What incorrect about noticing that anti-white racism is not just the only acceptable racism, its being positively encouraged?

    That wasn’t the conclusion you were advancing, asshole. You said nothing about anti-white racism, now did you? You were talking about people with “-stein” attached to their last last. Right?

    If you want to try to paper over the obvious antisemitism in your original post, you go at it. That’s what an asshole does when he gets called out… he retreats and changes the subject.

  25. Dennis T. Peasantstein

    And it’s something that’s present within the jewish community itself. The more religious distancing themselves from the less religious.

    And hardly unique to Jews. It occurs in both Christian and Muslim communities as well. As I’ve lived in all three communities at different times in my life, I say that from observation and experience.

  26. That wasn’t the conclusion you were advancing, asshole. You said nothing about anti-white racism, now did you? You were talking about people with “-stein” attached to their last last. Right?

    Ok lets have at it. So noticing that Epstein and Weinstein are both Jewish, and were protected from media exposure by other Jews eg Andy Lack is Antisemitic. This is the same argument that noticing the grooming gangs are overwhelmingly Muslim is Islamophobic ie. bollocks.

    And the point I’m making is Jews can be perpetrators of injustice as well as victims of it. But were in the midst of a blitz of BS.

    I’m fed up of the Jews are biggest victims narrative. Its bollocks. Yes they’ve suffered, but through history everybody has suffered. The weaponisation of victimhood will lead the West to utter ruination. No one can win that fight so FFS stop fucking doing it.

  27. Dennis, Crusher of Fools

    Revelation –

    The point you made (badly) was as stupid as it was wrong. Let Dennis bombard a few of your seven active brain cells with what would be obvious to anyone other than the likes of you…

    The coverups of the criminal activity of Epstein and Weinstein had nothing to do with them being Jewish and everything to do with the fact that they were rich, powerful and affiliated with the Democratic Party.

    The fact that mainstream media outlets attempted to ignore and/or minimize their crimes was because they had the potential to reflect badly on powerful Democratic politicians (such as the Clintons). Religion had nothing to do with it. They could have been named Costello and Miller and ABC, NBC and the mainstream media would have proceeded exactly as they did. Not a thing would have been different. In fact, the only thing that would have changed the mainstream media’s reaction to Epstein and Weinstein would have been if they had been Republicans.

    This was about the fact that U.S. mainstream media and their corporate masters are allied with and a part of the Democratic Party. Nothing more, nothing less. And only a bigot or a fool would miss that fact. You seem to check both boxes.

  28. Being guilty for the crimes of your ancestors is very Old Testament, isn’t it. The guilt shall be carried, yeah, unto the seventh generation. What on earth happened to the enlightenment and the principle that each individual was responsible for their own actions, not those of others, certainly not of those centuries long dead.

  29. Napoleon said, “The role of religion is to console the unfortunate people of the world.”

    The West is running out of unfortunates.

  30. I have no issue with a minority which isn’t particularly gregarious but which abides by the law and behaves sensibly; the Chinese in England are a good example. Jews another.

    I ask this in all seriousness: Who takes the Church of England seriously? About anything?

    The Guardian, when it suits them.

  31. I’m a Christian and don’t blame Jews for Christ’s crucifixion – I blame the Roman Empire

    @TMB November 21, 2019 at 11:19 am

    +1 on RoPs

    @rhoda November 21, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    As far as women vicars are concerned, women devalue any profession they enter

    A tad harsh, one example: women were good as nurses until the Blair creature corrupted nursing

    @Andrew C November 21, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    Thanks

    @bis November 21, 2019 at 3:10 pm

    Informative. The type of Jews you describe are the same closed mind type most RoPs and many NI & RoI RCs have too

  32. @Dennis, Crusher of Fools November 21, 2019 at 6:21 pm

    +1

    See:

    Leaked ABC News Insider Recording EXPOSES #EpsteinCoverup “We had Clinton, We had Everything”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lfwkTsJGYA

    Meanwhile, Epstein & Andrew headline news, yet Epstein & Clinton studiously ignored by msm even though ABC’s cover-up exposed two weeks ago by Project Veritas

    Then again, no surprise

    Steve Hilton on Dems forgetting about Obama’s involvement with Ukraine
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz8P9q-TckM

  33. “The coverups of the criminal activity of Epstein and Weinstein had nothing to do with them being Jewish and everything to do with the fact that they were rich, powerful and affiliated with the Democratic Party.”

    Ok. So we’ll ignore that Jews provide 75% of Dems political funding (and 50% of Reps coincidentally)

    We’ll ignore that in a country that has a 2% Jewish minority 3 of 7 of the Supreme court are Jewish and all appointed by Democrats.

    9 of 45 Dem senators (20%) are Jewish

    Its not an either or, its an and.

  34. I’m a Christian and don’t blame Jews for Christ’s crucifixion – I blame the Roman Empire

    If it wasn’t for the Roman Empire you wouldn’t be a Christian.

    What’s all this crucifixion blame about, anyway? Hayzoos dying for our sins was God’s plan, nay? If not, whatever was supposed to happen wasn’t much of a high and mighty plan if it got squirrelled by a bunch of squabbling yids and wops.

  35. Christians will be running out of other cheeks to turn.

    I’ve got a spare couple of cheeks to show to muslims.

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