Stupid damn fools:

The government has banned fracking with immediate effect in a watershed moment for environmentalists and community activists.

The Ecksian solution presents itself as the only reasonable thing to do.

74 thoughts on “Idiots”

  1. I am starting to think this electorate deserves a proper Marxist government. Many people say that in the 70’s there was a socialist government but obviously that is not the case, when I think socialist I think DDR and CCCP in the 70’s. Very few people who lived say in Poland in the 70’s want socialism but many people in the UK demand it. Let them have it for a few decades: no traveling abroad, no internet, gulags for large scale fracking industry, no privacy, no personal property.

  2. The Precautionary Principle raised to dogma. Virtue signalling based on weasel words such as may and might and could. Not an ounce of science or real historical assessment. Boris has done this before, cower before the greenies.

    There has never been an earthquake, nor (as far as I am aware) a single acquifer polluted. Cleaner, safer and easier to restore than coal or even regular drilling.

    God’s gift to the nation, spurned by ignorant labour vote chasers who will never vote for them anyway.

    It makes you realise just how stupid and ignorant our ‘leaders’ are.

  3. There you have it Mr Lud.

    Vote for BlueLabour shite and get at least a partial Brexit or vote for TBP and lose the lot. I think polls are fixed but they have TBP on 9% and if that is 50% wrong ( by deceit–and remember even Killery’s “93% certain to win” crap wasn’t quite 50% wrong in terms of votes) TBP will still only get a handful of seats at the expense of millions of leave votes wasted and remain victory.

    So nose-holding time I think.

    Of course Blojo is peddling green shit because Marxist MSM scum are pushing eco-freakery. Whether this IS the end of fracking after the GE remains to be seen. It sounds like a GE stunt and Tory trash like money which fracking will provide. Tory track record is consistent–like Camoron’s promise anonymity for men accused of sex crime until conviction. That lasted until the first femmi-squark.

    You out there Theo? Hope you are fucking ashamed of your long years enabling that shower of shite. Doubtless your usual silence after such a challenge will have to be taken as shame/guilt.

  4. I was hoping there’d be a post about this. If there was any hope that a Boris government would be a step toward reversing the decline of this country, it’s now gone. It’s just going to be the same squishy wet centrist fake conservatism that we had with Cameron and May. Cultural Marxism in slow motion.

    On top of this, as a contractor from next year I’ll very probably be paying more tax than a PAYE employee, with none of the additional benefits (the extension of IR35 to the private sector). Paying more tax under a conservative government than I ever paid under Labour.

    Thus they’ll never get my vote now. Brexit party or burn it all down.

  5. Yawn. The last three years have shown that no undertaking any politician promises is anything other than a bid to get elected. So what makes you think this is anything different? Tories are concerned about losing some votes of obsessive greens & the NiMBYs. So they do what they think’s necessary to safeguard them. It’s not as if there’s much of a constituency in favour of fracking. It’s either agin or disinterested. The mistake is thinking politicians produce policies are good for the country. Politicians produce policies are good for politicians.
    Other side of an election, who knows? If the politicians want the the nice stream of tax revenue fracking would provide, to buy votes will keep them in power, they’ll commission a wide ranging enquiry will show fears about the consequences of fracking have been wildly exaggerated & back to business as usual. It is all lies & deceit.

  6. I do wonder if we’re seeing the hand of Dominic Cummings, here. He’s not actually a politician, is he? Maybe he’s one of us. Understands that if you want to achieve something important you subjugate everything to that end. Nothing is more important than your end goal. Especially the careers of politicians. His goal is Brexit. What gets trashed along the way is trivial. You can always clear up the mess after.

  7. Something in what you say BiS. But greenfreaks are not that big a source of Tory support.

    Silverite–I urge you to reconsider. Lots of folk are on blogs talking about the need for change and constitutional change etc–“hat’s why I’m voting TBP etc”

    That is dead wrong. If a split vote means a remain win there will be NO changes–well not any for the BETTER. There will be a large number of changes for the WORSE.

    Most people don’t want and won’t take part in a burn-down. So all you are doing is ensuring that the worst people–the people we already defeated– are going to win and do as they like from now on.

    The Tories are scum–and a time is coming to punish them. But if Jizz gets in the antics of Blojo will seem like the good old days.

    Once we are out then anything goes–but OUT first–or lose everything.

  8. BiS

    The thought had crossed my mind too. Due to the ‘out of the blue’ nature of the ban. Didn’t go down that track tho’. Thanks for the lead…

    And yes, if that is the case, it clearly is Cummings at work. Take out anything they can accuse you of and get your aggression in first.

  9. bloke in spain
    Rubbish, if Cummings is such a genius Svengali and wanted us out of the EU then we would be out. Many others, real Leavers, proposed mechanisms by which we could be cleanly out by now. None were tried, none were even spoken about by anyone close to the top.
    His job is to get the Tories re-elected regardless. Nothing else. Given that at the end of May’s reign it looked like they might never win again then he has probably worked the miracle. At the cost of everything that being free of the shackles might have brought us.

  10. Blackpool has fracking. Blackpool has had earthquakes.
    Since fracking there have been lots of sensors deployed and far more earthquakes have been detected.

    However I grew up in Blackpool. There were earthquakes there strong enough to be felt decades before fracking took place. Multiple times.

    Put more and better sensors out, detect more earthquakes in any area.

    Ok so now what do we do? Simply import the item from places that have not banned fracking.

    Give it time, rather than one or two sites, in 30 years there will be a hundred sites and armed security to keep the terrorists at bay. Cannot leave a valuable resource under the control of the NIMBY crowd.

  11. As Gamecock says: Putin is happy. We now freeze at his whim, since the country runs on Russian natural gas, he has gained political leverage Stalin could only dream of.

    I wonder who funds all the activists….?

  12. For any of you trying to convince each other as to the merits of Con v TBP – it’s only relevant if you personally are in a marginal seat.

    If you are in a safe seat, then you can freely tick whatever box you want, to add to the national total count for that party.

    If you are in a marginal seat, then it might be reasonable to argue that the logical thing to do would be to vote tactically. Usually, but not always, it’s a choice of one from two (whoever they are), and any vote elsewhere is wasted. If the two are equally bad (in your opinion), then sure, it’s a free vote again.

  13. JS–The deal is enough that we can force much much more. No Brexiteers are going away. And a few TBP seats will be a help and a start. But the alternative is remain and all that will follow–votes for 14 yr olds/massively more mass imports/ EU offcomers getting the vote etc. Goodbye Brexit –goodbye UK.

    There was never any doubt Johnson is BlueLabour trash. And that if he gets back it will still be war. But that is a general war of which Brexit is a part.

    Below I copy a post from The Great Realignment website of PdeH. It might be of intetrest. Again–I don’t trust polls. But it is unlikely that Johnson’s manifesto will be anything like the turd that emerged from Treason May’s hindquarters.

    ““Workington” sounds like a name made up for a novel. But it is a real place, a small town in Cumbria that used to have a coal mine and now has the questionable fortune to have become for the 2019 election what Basildon was in 1992 or Nuneaton was in 2015.

    Damian Lyons Lowe of the polling company Survation tweets,

    On behalf of Simon Walters at Daily Mail, we have polled the seat many in the media have described as a “must win” in this election as an indicator for Conservative fortunes in parts of the north of England – Workington in Cumbria.

    The results were: Conservatives 45% (+3), Labour 34% (-17), Brexit Party 13% (+13), Liberal Democrats 5% (-2), Green Party 2% (+2). The figures in brackets are changes since the 2017 general election.

    It is only one poll, but the results indicate that, as suggested in the previous post, the Brexit party running in most or all seats may not harm the Conservatives as much as it would seem at first sight. In fact the presence of the Brexit Party in the contest could indirectly benefit the Conservatives by taking more votes from Labour than from them.

    Interesting as the electoral horse race always is, let us not forget that this (potential) change in voting patterns is also a change in how people see themselves.

    The Daily Mail produced this graphic of some of the questions asked in the Survation poll. Take a look at the answers to Q5:

    Regardless of your current voting intention, if you change your mind before Dec 12, which other party would you consider voting for?

    We see the old certitudes dissolve before our eyes.

    Or maybe we don’t. Never forget that for the first few days after Theresa May called the election in 2017 that ended with her losing her majority, her already high polling figures rose yet further. Nor did the Tory vote share ever drop very far during the entire campaign – the trouble was, Labour’s rose sharply. “

  14. Oh, and you may want to look up the plot so far of Solar Cycle 25.
    Winter is Coming.
    Sort of a catchy line….

  15. Afaik, there wasn’t any commercially significant fracking going on anyway because of the same sort of weaponised bureaucratic foot-dragging that means they’re still dicking about on Hinkley Point C – nearly 10 years after announcing it. China has built hundreds of new power stations in the same time period.

    The Green Blob wants to both massively increase demand on the national grid (leccy cars) while making power generation intermittent, expensive and unreliable. That both sides of the equation don’t balance is a feature.

    As with all such schemes, it’s pointless trying to work out how it’s supposed to help. Instead, look at who it’s meant to hurt. This is about punishing provincial and rural whites for acquiring a little prosperity.

    We don’t want more people from Sheffield flying away on cheap holidays – Oliver Letwin.

  16. @JS
    Getting the UK out of the EU is not the same thing as getting Tory politicians elected. Don’t forget the reason for the referendum in the first place was Cameron thought it would play well electorally. He didn’t expect a Leave outcome. The UK will leave the EU despite Tory politicians, not because of them. The current mob in the driving seat are no more Leave than the last lot. They just see it as a way of keeping their seats & keeping their snouts in the trough. The entire political class is in opposition to a majority of the electorate. So they have to be manipulated.

  17. “Putin is happy.”

    The UK imports about 1% of its gas from Russia. Half the UK’s needs are met by the fields in the North and Irish Seas. Most of the rest comes from Norway.

  18. PF – what is a safe seat?
    Have seen multiple seats that were previously a large majority for one side change hands over the years. Have seen seats that stayed in the same party for decades change to a different party.
    Is there such a thing as a safe seat when families don’t vote the party line their parents voted?

    My parents voted labour all their adult lives (from age 21 when they could vote). This time, Brexit party. Their kids voted more based on what was better in our own opinions. My eldest nieces and nephews are voting this time, they are still deciding who to vote for. Probably not the same as their own parents.
    And I’m tempted to simply not vote at all. Sick of the lot of them in parliament.

  19. The message to the electorate: if you vote, the government will ignore you; if you take direct action, the government will fold.

    Nope, I can’t see any possible negative consequences from this.

  20. bloke in spain
    November 2, 2019 at 12:13 pm

    Thanks, I entirely agree with this comment. I’m not sure if you thought I was saying something different before. I certainly didn’t intend to give that impression.

  21. Theo – Russia Today has spent years warning us against the dangers of the UK potentially becoming a net exporter of gas.

  22. “PF – what is a safe seat?”

    Use your judgement?

    “Have seen multiple seats that were previously a large majority for one side change hands over the years. Have seen seats that stayed in the same party for decades change to a different party. Is there such a thing as a safe seat when families don’t vote the party line their parents voted?”

    Sure, but you are talking over a number of elections. You rarely get a massive unexpected swing in a seat at one election, unless there are other factors in play. Again, use your knowledge.

    My suggestion was aimed at this blog – ie mostly intelligent people who are more than capable of reading their local circumstances?

  23. The entire political class is in opposition to a majority of the electorate. So they have to be manipulated.</i

    Culled would be a better option.

  24. Chris Milller–True but cuts both ways. The old days of FTPT at a GE and then do as they like for 5 years are on the way out.

  25. Leadsom on Toady this am made it clear(ish) that this wasn’t a ban, but a moratorium. She appeared to leave the door open for “science” to show that it could be possible to have another pop at it.
    I agree with others-they’ve applied this as a temporary stop to keep the enviro-mentalists quiet until after the GE. I bet a pound to a pinch of salt that, should the Tories get back with a decent majority, fracking will suddenly be seen to NOT cause earthquakes. And about feckin’ time.

  26. “The UK imports about 1% of its gas from Russia. Half the UK’s needs are met by the fields in the North and Irish Seas. Most of the rest comes from Norway.”

    A not insignificant amount (c.10%) comes in as LNG. Comes into Milford Haven and Isle of Grain.

  27. The entire political class is in opposition to a majority of the electorate. So they have to be manipulated.

    Culled would be a better option

    Very much .agree with you, Dr Bud. But absent exta-democratic methods, there’s isn’t a realistic way of doing this. The hurdle to jump for a new alternative political party is too high. Forget prop-rep. That’d be no different to FPTP. The current scum are so firmly entrenched, even if you got a party offered change got the largest share of MPs, unless it was overwhelming majority, the scum would cobble together a coalition to keep it from power. See various continental systems.
    Basically, it needs a Trumpian solution. But the UK political system doesn’t enable a Trump. It needs another Thatcher. But Boris ain’t no Maggie.

  28. There’s just been a 2.0 quake here – ban that bus! And another one, ban that bus as well! Dammit, another one, SHUT DOWN THAT RAILWAY STATION! A 0.5 quake – STOP WALKING OUTSIDE MY FLAT!11!!11!!!!

  29. Sigh!! The UK sounds just as bad as Queensland.

    JW: I hope you’re right about the moratorium, but I always remember the Bismarck quote, ‘Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution.’

  30. I sense the hand of someone behind the crown. In this case the hand of Carrie Symonds. She’s a known Greenie. She has influence over Johnson, she’s changed his diet and exercise pattern, so if she can do that she can influence his emotions about green issues.

  31. Steve,

    “Afaik, there wasn’t any commercially significant fracking going on anyway because of the same sort of weaponised bureaucratic foot-dragging that means they’re still dicking about on Hinkley Point C – nearly 10 years after announcing it. China has built hundreds of new power stations in the same time period.”

    I know the communists used to refer to the west as decadent, but this stuff really is. I’m not against reducing pollution or waste. Sounds like a good thing. But let’s be honest: these kids marching for Extinction Rebellion can do so because we got so fucking rich through capitalism and use of resources. Jocasta might be out there fighting the good fight, but she almost certainly depends on people funding her, like boyfriends or parents. And those people are probably involved in some sort of 21st century capitalism.

    It’s like all the shit that exists in Glastonbury. Divining, horoscopes, bullshit medicine. It all rests atop modernity. No cars? How are you going to get to Glastonbury. No washing machines or vacuum cleaner? You’ll spend all day being a housewife and not have time to go to a healing retreat.

    That’s the fun thing about eco. If we actually got down to what these people want, they’d fucking hate it.

  32. Tiananmen Ecks: “Vote for BlueLabour shite and get at least a partial Brexit … So nose-holding time I think.”

    So after all those calls for tanks in the street and blood in the gutters, Mr. T. is going to sidle into the polling booth and vote Tory? How “conservative”! It is tough to break away from tribal loyalty — even when you know the leaders of the tribe are lying to you.

    Meanwhile in Catalonia, people who want independence actually vote for independence. And when the rulers put the leaders of the party which won a democratic election in jail, the people still do not back down.

  33. Not so sure it’s Cummings. I seem to recall Gove was moved from education because teachers didn’t like him. That wasn’t Cummings. And I doubt it gleaned any teacher votes either.

  34. Lot of time for our northern neighbours. I can’t say I’ve any affection for the economic ideas of the separatist politicians but admiration for the Catalan people taking on Madrid on the streets in protest.
    I gave up on the UK, but if I was back there I’d relish the idea on taking on the establishment the same way. If you’re going to trash your cities, at least do it in a good cause. Not because some drug dealer’s got himself righteously offed by Plod.
    But how many other people amongst even commenters here would feel the same way? You ready to walk the walk Mr Ecks? I’d think you’ve all far too much invested in the status quo to want to rock the boat to overturning. Which is what the establishment relies on. They can keep shafting you & you’ll keep bending over for more..

  35. If you don’t vote Tory at the next election, you are empowering:

    No Brexit
    The most left-wing government in British history

    Ecksy might want gallows and tumbrils, but he is also a realist.

  36. Incorrect Mr Lud–I see reality as it is–BloJo has revived the Tory vote. If Treason May was still offering the EU the use of her arsehole then TBP would be all that was possible.

    But the Johnson Deal–while not good– is OUT. The magic is in getting out. More than symbolic and the EU’s first defeat. Prob the fat cunt will try some kind of stitch up of the FTA. But we can stop that. If fucking remain wins the only way is down.

    Unless you have a plan to win with a split vote and avoid having fucking remainiacs laughing in your face the rest of your days. If so please let me know what it is a s a p.

    Piss off Longmuir. Your stupidity is world class.

    I never have advocated tanks–that was put on my calls for use of emergency powers by folk who also seem to have some idiot idea that I call regularly for mass murder–which is what I decry socialist scum for.

    From time to time anger has got the better of me and I have wished an occasional beating or perhaps a hanging as a consequence of high crimes. But even our host is guilty of superficial analysis as in the body of his post where he advocates “Ecksian” solutions. If those are taken to mean mass murder of some sort. I have pointed out several times that I do not and never have advocated mass murder.However talking to a brick wall often has more success than talking to the malformed Idee Fixe of sloganized thinking..

    Get this into your ropey scrotum Longnut–I want Brexit or the nearest possible and this is it. If I judged that TBP had a prayer –ie Treason May was still on the job–the TBP it would be . But lots of Theo’s and other numpty’s are now back in the Tory fold. Too many for any significant BP victory. The Torys are not a Party I would piss on normally–if they were on fire. Let alone being my “tribe”. BlueLabour scum that they are.But I want Brexit and I will do what has to be done. You may be the kind of fool who thinks losing all for a fuckwitted gesture is noble.I am not.

    I fail to see how handing them remain on a fucking plate is hurting remainiacs.

    Also your big talk of Catalonia is very fine coming from a septic with no skin in the game and who won’t be doing shite about any of it. Next time the CIA piss on your freedoms get down to Langley and call them out you otiose cunt. Take your guns. Or the White House to stop Trump’s latest pre-crime cockrot. Lets see you front some fat coppers of even a few photos of you dukeing it out with Antifa before you peddle your shite on here.

  37. BiS–Walking the walk on your own or in small company leads only to jail or death if you prefer to die fighting. While I do wish to die with my boots on rather than of miserable NHS neglect forgive me for saying that the timing is inconvenient when I can still get most of the Brexit I want by trying to see that the Tory Party has one last hurrah. Emphasis on LAST.

    If Jizz gets in via split vote then violence and death are on the cards for many of us I reckon. But if your life has reached so poor a point that suicide by cop is preferable to first trying to win 75% of what you want by voting for a piss-poor political party then you are at a low ebb.

    Try the less extreme methods first is a good policy unless you are Wile E Coyote.

  38. Bloke in North Dorset

    Not so sure it’s Cummings. I seem to recall Gove was moved from education because teachers didn’t like him. That wasn’t Cummings. And I doubt it gleaned any teacher votes either.

    I’ve heard a few political commentators, including on the left, say he’s been one of the best ministers for years and knows how to deliver a brief.

    In that case it makes sense to move him to the most important job when it comes to delivering Brexit and I don’t think pissing off the teacher’s unions would be seen as a problem worthy of moving him.

    I heard a new term today which I suspect we’ll hear a lot more over the coming week – Brexhaustion

  39. So Mr Ecks, explain the Catalans. I can’t see much difference in the situation. Are they just more men than the English?

  40. Boris Johnson has shafted Brexiters and Conservatives:

    – No Deal clean Brexit gone – Johnson’s Surrender Treaty or no Brexit to appeal to “centre ground”

    – Fracking banned* to appeal to Greens – who will never vote Tory

    * banned until “science” can accurately predict earthquakes tremors; ffs California has been trying unsuccessfully for a century

    .
    If you want our votes, Boris, change the faces

    If Boris wants our votes for real change, then he must prove it by changing the faces. The last thing he needs (or we need) after winning a General Election is to have the same Remain saboteurs sitting in rows behind him, once more blocking Brexit.
    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/if-you-want-our-votes-boris-change-the-faces/

    Very true, Remainers should be deselected, we need new blood

    .
    On the media’s Planet Remain, truth is now a ‘hard-right’ concept, By Melanie Phillips – November 2, 2019

    President Trump’s dramatic intervention into Britain’s general election may have raised eyebrows, but he has made the absolutely crucial point that I have been making here.

    This is that the deal that Boris Johnson has done with the EU will damage the UK by preventing it from making beneficial trade deals with the rest of the world. It will keep the UK shackled to the EU but without the power to influence it. It will thus negate the point of Brexit altogether….
    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/on-the-medias-planet-remain-truth-is-now-a-hard-right-concept/

    If Johnson’s Surrender Treaty is implemented we’ll be back in EU on worse terms than now within five years

  41. Dennis the Insightful

    Pcar –

    I believe I told you guys a while back that Boris had everything necessary to be Britain’s George W. Bush. Now I’ve been proven correct. A year from now we’ll be re-electing Donald Trump and you’ll still be in the EU. Boris doesn’t want to be Britain’s Trump, he just wants to be the biggest bug on the manure pile.

  42. @Steve November 2, 2019 at 12:10 pm, SadButMadLad November 2, 2019 at 4:51 pm

    +1

    This Instagram star is a one-man argument for RAISING the voting age
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7641459/AMANDA-PLATELL-Instagram-star-one-man-argument-RAISING-voting-age.html

    Do Millennials Need to Know About WWII?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duFwkuETFhU

    Having watched the ignoramuses on Apprentice UK I agree with Ms Platell – the numb-skulls had to be taught how to use an A-Z town map

  43. “That’s the fun thing about eco. If we actually got down to what these people want, they’d fucking hate it.”

    Which is why I keep telling people it isn’t going to happen. Its a middle class existential crisis of faith. They no longer have religion to tell them who is good and evil, so they’re created their own religion. I fully expect there to be some sort of version of the afterlife incorporated into eco-freakery fairly soon, the middle classes are petrified of death, its why all the dieting and food faddery is so popular with them. They think if only they can eat the right stuff they’ll live for ever…….

    But take away the iPhone, the centrally heated house, the car for every adult, the eating out all the time, the holidays in the sun, the cheap sh*t from abroad etc etc, and make them live the sackcloth and ashes life, and they’ll drop the eco-religion like a shot.

  44. Bloke in North Dorset

    Pcar,

    I’m sure Brexit purity is good for the soul, but given the choice between Boris’s deal and Revoke I’ll be more than happy with his deal.

    If you think there’s a path to a clean break I’ve got a couple of bridges you might be interested in.

  45. “If you think there’s a path to a clean break”

    What if Boris, on 3Nov2019, says, “We’re out. We are no longer in the EU.”

  46. “What has he done to suggest he would say such a thing?”

    Which is the problem isn’t it – if he had really wanted to leave, as he claimed, and had been prepared to play as dirty as those who did against him?

    At which point it then shifts to an issue of trust. And, no – charismatic chap that he is – not really. Let’s entertain the hope that he proves me wrong.

  47. BiS–That is just silly. No one is getting 13 years in jail for being a leaver. When– Jizz more likely than Blojo–cuts up rough and unleashes the Momentum thugs then we will who has the balls for what. But the Deal– despite Pcar’s assertions–is still Brexit enough to count. And we can do better once we are out. And if BloJo SHOULD try to run a sell out then we can always kick off when that happens. Resistance to the globo elite is great–but there is a difference between strategy and some kind of daft dick-swinging contest that you seem to be advocating.

    As I say handing remainiacs remain is not punishing them. And talk of vast “constitutional” changes for the better that will never happen if remain win are just talk. Indeed –hand remain a victory and there will be vast changes for the worse.

    Johnson HAS worked matters to try and restore the fortunes of his shite Party. But that is a one time thing. Once OUT we aren’t going back ever. And the damage to the EU will grow from the off. The Tory Party is still on the downbound train as are all the polipigs–it is a matter of ensuring that they don’t drag the country down with them.

    Again–if anyone has a plan by which a No deal can be achieved against all the forces ranged against it–other than an outright TBP victory that isn’t now going to happen–please let’s have it and I’ll join you in carrying it out.

  48. Ecks. The Catalans were on the streets when Madrid tried to shut down the referendum. The current incidents are the latest in a continuing saga. The response to the jailing of nationalist politicians involved in the declaration of independence.
    UK hasn’t managed to get to the opening lines of its saga
    Here’s a hypothetical for, you. On the current showing, what do you think would be happening in Barca now if Madrid.had OK’d the referendum, received a pro independence result, voted to implement it, spent the last 3 1/2 years finding ways to block it & finally came up with a formula meant Catalonia didn’t get independence at all?

  49. Good grief, Dennis Who Likes Buckeyes!

    The assertion was, “If you think there’s a path to a clean break I’ve got a couple of bridges you might be interested in.”

    I suggested a path.

    A proper argument from you would be that it’s not a path.

    Declaring “What has he done to suggest he would say such a thing?” is just goofy.

  50. Gamecock, I think the Gina Miller Supreme Court ruling still applies: the government cannot take the UK out of the EU without a “meaningful vote” from parliament. If Boris attempted something like that with parliament closed it would just end up (rapidly) with a Supreme Court loss.

    Dennis’s comment may have been impertinent but it was useful in pointing out that Boris wouldn’t do that even if he could. That he’s taken “no deal” off the table is as sure an indication of his intent as you could get.

  51. PJF–No Deal is off because he has a deal agreed. The EU aren’t refusing anything the HoScum is. And he can’t get ND past them. As has been said he doesn’t have the balls for emerg measures and he wants a GE win.

    As crappy as all of that is–despite hot air to the contrary–it is still US OUT OF THE EU. And can be expanded from there. Vote splitting handing remain on a plate to remainiacs is not an injury to remainaics.

    And if Johnson’s Deal can’t be opened up and escaped–which it can–from OUTSIDE the EU–how the fuck does anybody think there is a second chance for Brexit ever again after a remain victory with remainiacs vote fixing with everything they have?

    BiS –The deal is not remain–it is better and escapable. So to give remain victory on a plate by vote splitting is fucking stupid.

    And Catalonia is NOT the UK. Up until recently British people believed however naively in democracy. We had a Civil war 300+ years ago not 80 and we did not have a Franco dictatorship (regardless of how much better that was than the Marxist alternative). So it is not surprising the streets are not yet full.

    Lots of people share my opinion of the Deal –not perfect but can be escaped. If those of you who don’t have a plan beyond an outright TBP victory that won’t happen cos too many Theos or trying to kick off a civil war –when lots like me don’t agree one is needed yet–pleased let me know what it is and I’m in.

  52. There is a flextension now in place, if I understand it correctly? Ie, at the moment we are leaving come what may (and No Deal is the default if there is no treaty) on 31st January. The UK can bring forward that date? So who has the power to exercise that shortening – the PM or Parliament?

  53. Thanks for a good argument, PJF.

    Not that I’m agreeing with you, just complementing you for an actual argument, unlike Dennis Who Is Stuck Up North.

    I’d still like to see Boris do it. It would radically change the discussion to where it should be. And BORIS would be a folk hero forever. He has a chance for immortality, yet he sucks up to the Greens.

  54. Johnson is BlueLabour –but the deal is still OUT and can be escaped .

    He has revived the Tory vote too much to be overridden by TBP. If Treason May were still in then TBP would have a chance–but the Deal is enough changed from Treason’s cockrot that it can be fucked over later.

    To those who say it can’t–if we can’t get out of a deal once OUT of the EU –how well will you do reviving Brexit after having given remainiac vote-fixers Remain on a plate?

  55. There is a flextension now in place, if I understand it correctly? Ie, at the moment we are leaving come what may (and No Deal is the default if there is no treaty) on 31st January.

    Indeed. If Boris gets a comfortable majority in the GE there’s absolutely no reason he couldn’t just run out the clock and let us drop out cleanly on Jan 31st. He won’t, of course, because he wants us tied to his EU pals forever. He won’t even use the threat of that to squeeze useful concessions out of the EU.

  56. Dennis the Agreeable

    Gamecock –

    I wasn’t attempting to present an argument, I was asking a question. You were presenting a hypothetical, I was asking to what extent you thought it possible. That’s all.

  57. Dennis the Very Agreeable

    As PJF pointed out, all I was doing was pointing out that the hypothetical presented seemed to be inconsistent with the facts as we know them and asking if you thought the hypothetical realistic.

  58. Mr Ecks, the reason the Tory vote has revived is because people like you, Brute, like having your tummy tickled.

    This is just the Tories doing their usual thing of being the phlegm pasty marginally less disgusting than Labour’s diarrhoea smoothie.

    Nothing new.

  59. It is amazing to see the transmogrification of Mr. Ecks the Bomb Thrower into Mr. Ecks the Prudent Promoter of Half-a-Loaf.

    There certainly is a case for taking what you can get (assuming you trust Boris the Unreliable to deliver his half-a-loaf). However, a Withdrawal Agreement half-loaf containing about 500 pages of dense legalese approved by the EU probably contains lots of surprises for the Brexit faithful. As the much-reviled Nancy Pelosi once said — we have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it. I for one have not read that Withdrawal Agreement. (Who has?) It seems that it principally makes the UK into a non-voting junior member of the EU.

    The new Ecksian view is that we trust in Boris and take the half loaf now, intending to work to expand the loaf afterwards. But the world is a dynamic place. We know that the Leavers in the Referendum skewed towards the older generation, with the young being quite strongly pro-EU. Consequently, over time, as older voters die off and are replaced by new young and immigrant voters, there is also a significant chance that the tide of public opinion will shift back to requesting the EU to allow the UK to rejoin as a full member again.

    Hold your nose and vote tactically for Boris, with his bridge to Ireland and his more expensive NHS and his caving to environmental extremists — or keep your eyes on the prize, with the realization that this is one more battle in a very long continuing fight.

  60. @bloke in spain November 3, 2019 at 9:47 am

    +1

    Substitute Catalonia with Scotland – same applies; SNP would be rioting

    Will Leavers riot? Who knows, but how many are reacting to XR suggests all not well

    Meanwhile: MPs “Please be nice to me or I will cry” – Quitters were under fire not for being women, but for betraying the voters

    …Somehow they have decided that they are abused because they are women, and sure enough the sisterhood and BBC are peddling this line (including the Telegraph’s Judith Woods, who should know better).

    Is it possible that these MPs are being insulted and threatened because they stood on a manifesto to honour the EU referendum outcome and then sought to thwart it? Might it be the case that the electorate finds being treated with such contempt a tad irritating? That the sight of some MPs seeking to undermine the Prime Minister’s negotiations on behalf of the country might be construed by many as a bit treasonous? That the reason for the abuse is not that they are female, but that they are dishonest and incompetent?

    This election [and politics] is going to be brutal. It’s no place for the over-sensitive.
    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/quitters-were-under-fire-not-for-being-women-but-for-betraying-the-voters/

    Agree. Don’t stand if you’re scared of criticism. Don’t join Army if scared of bangs & guns

    .
    @PJF

    +1 x many

    @Edward Lud November 3, 2019 at 8:08 p

    +1

    Tummy Tickling example

    Fishing and the big question for party leaders

    …under Boris’s deal fisheries are set to remain open to EU boats and that the Common Fisheries Policy will continue to operate during the extendable transition period – that means up until the end of 2022. Yesterday at his Brexit Party election campaign launch he wondered if Boris had actually read this part of his deal.

    There is no need for this, or for the Conservatives to lose seats in Scotland. A clear-cut position on fisheries could gain them seats there. They should know that every word they utter or write on fisheries will be analysed, and the slightest hint of backtracking, or fudging, then they might as well throw in the towel now. And not just in Scotland, but in many coastal constituencies.

    There are several ways Brexit can be achieved; some are more convincing than others. But whichever it is, there is one issue that all will have to face. When it comes to negotiating the future trade deal with the European Union, the EU have made very clear their demand for access to UK fishing waters along similar lines as present. That’s despite the fact that the EU have no legal right to make such a demand, and this is pure bully-boy tactics.

    How the political parties and candidates answer respond to this question is the litmus test…
    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/fishing-and-the-big-question-for-party-leaders/

    Tummy Tickle – ambiguous weasel words

  61. @Mr Ecks

    And if Johnson’s Deal can’t be opened up and escaped–[1] which it can–from OUTSIDE the EU…..[2] And we can do better once we are out

    How?

    1. It’s a legally binding International Treaty, not a Deal

    2. We have to maintain “a level playing field”, if we don’t we’re in breach of treaty and EU/ECJ decide if we’ve breached

    .
    Will flip-flop Boris turn into Theresa? – YES

    Captain De Pfeffel and the great white BRINO

    .
    @Gavin Longmuir

    Agree

  62. It is a two year deal–Treaty is the jargon. It can be escaped. You –and those like you– are like to cost us everything we gained on the basis of misinformation.

    And –again–if we can’t escape this deal from outside the EU –how the fuck do you think Brexit will EVER have another shot when we are trapped INSIDE the EU because vote-splitters handed remainiacs remain on a plate. You may want those cunts laughing in your face for the rest of your life–I do not.

  63. @Mr Ecks November 4, 2019 at 2:48 pm

    1. “It is a two year deal–Treaty is the jargon.”

    Where in Treaty and PD is this “two year deal” you keep mentioning? Article number what?

    2. “It can be escaped” How? Treaty says EU & ECJ must approve “The Great Escape”

    3. If we’re out and free of EU, why was Johnson boasting EU agreed we could remove VAT from tampons in this “better” Treaty?

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