Spudda’s rallying cry for the left

Get to work, peasants.

Nope, really, that is what he’s saying:

My suggestion for the over-arching narrative is straightforward. It is ‘Jobs in every constituency’.

For he refuses to recognise that jobs are a cost of production, not a benefit. Still, get everyone building those windmills with teaspoons and we’ll be golden, right?

43 thoughts on “Spudda’s rallying cry for the left”

  1. If you believe that production proceeds in the same way as God is purported to have created the universe, that is, out of nothing, then you might consider labour (jobs) as a COST of production, and you might well extend this to capital, and (hell, let’s go the whole hog) land too; otherwise you might condsider land, labour, and capital as the MEANS of production!

  2. We tend to think we’re richer if we can do something in a less land or capital expensive manner. Because it means we’ve got some left over to do another and extra thing with – we’re richer. Same holds for labour. Obviously, for while they’re the means for production that means they’re inputs to the production process. Inputs are costs…..

  3. Dennis, He Who Has A Degree In Economics

    And as usual, RM leaves the minor details of his plan to be worked out by other people…

  4. Economist here.

    Labor/inputs are a cost not a benefit.

    Teenagers understand this around the home: that’s why they don’t want to prepare the food or do the dishes, but they do want to eat what’s served.

    Teenagers also understand this outside the home: that’s why they’ll prepare the food and do the dishes, and serve it to someone across the counter … for a paycheck.

  5. I`m not sure that thinking in terms of cost is all that helpful . New Green energy jobs are not problematical just because they are costs it is also because it is a mis-allocation of resources.
    If , instead of wind farms we powered the UK by twisting up elastic bands we could create millions of jobs. Same thing
    In any production process everything is a cost but you can`t claim the value appears like Athena , fully armed out of nowhere at the point of sale , the value is also created en route.
    The problem with the planned economy was that its planners saw lots of factories and not unnaturally assumed the value was created by the work ..hence all those tractor factories
    As we well know you can work all day long but if the price ( including profit) and product are wrong you will create zero value
    So I think it might be better to locate value in the product / other planning investment and allocation of capital whereas costs are labour energy taxes and so on
    I `m not sure this is a simple question though . Rembrandt Beethoven crafts people and low level farmers , for example surely create the value with their Labour ?
    Dunno but any suggestion of “creating jobs” is obviously back to the USSR

  6. I ran a cost accounting system for a major corporation for 19 years. We did indeed include the cost of labor, land, electricity, working capital, ingredients, packaging, energy . . . everything.

    Murphy’s ‘Jobs in every constituency’ is junk. It is not addressed to production. Production is not even a consideration.

    “If you believe that production proceeds in the same way as God is purported to have created the universe, that is, out of nothing”

    No true Scotsman fallacy.

    “then you might consider labour (jobs) as a COST of production”

    I can assure you it is. I’ve handed out the checks.

    Frankly, in the context of Murphy’s post, “the MEANS of production!” has no meaning. “It’s not a cost of production, it’s a means of production!”

    Wut?

  7. OT, but:

    Paul Hilder, chief executive of the polling firm Datapraxis, said: “According to our analysis, there are at least 20 Labour-held seats where the Brexit Party likely cost the Tories victory….
    He added: “In seats such as Hartlepool, Rotherham and Barnsley Central and East, between 70 and 90 per cent of Brexit Party voters said they would vote Conservative if it was a two-horse race, with a maximum of 6.5 per cent choosing Labour instead.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nigel-farage-stopped-tories-taking-20-more-seats-say-pollsters-d0wdjppxh

    Thanks Nigel!

  8. Angles dancing on the head of a bent & rusty pin!

    Consider a world where no-one is employed. Would it work? The working man who is his employers cost is at the same time another employer’s customer. Money circulates.

    The important part is “net revenues”, which come from production. The objective is to increase a business’s net revenues, which generally requires increasing production, which requires workers, who then spend their earnings as customers. Unfortunately, accountants took control of British business years ago, and foolishly see only the ‘workers as costs’ part of the equation. Which is why Britain now relies on imports from Germany, India, China.

  9. Imagine the machines made everything. No, really, everything. Even the machines that made the machines that repaired the machines.

    So, now, are we all vastly, gargantuanly, wealthy? Sure, everything’s made without a drop of human labour. That is, none of us has a job and we’ve all got everything we want. Sounds great actually.

  10. Did not take long for the obsequious Murphy to start to go to work.

    “I have to admit that, to my surprise, I find Emily Thornberry entirely on a wavelength with me. This comes from the Guardian:”

    One can almost taste the musty, yet sweet, aroma of vermine enrobing one

  11. BiCR

    Twenty socialist scumbags in parliament who shouldn’t be there! I want to see the Labour party ground to dust, not merely a pile of rubble…

  12. I hope Johnson offers Sturgeon a referendum on independence in exchange for dropping the Barnett formula. The money saved could then be reallocated to the North and Midlands. Win win.

  13. Bloke in Costa Rica

    Not too surprising Captain Tuber likes the cut of Emily Fivebellies’ jib. They both despise actual English people despite notionally being on their side.

  14. Say I work for myself at the margin of production and I fashion my own tools: let’s say I’m making straw hats. The whole product is mine: there is no cost of production. Then it occurs to me to put a silk band around my hats: that I cannot produce myself: I have to obtain it elsewhere. Now there is a cost of production – what I have to pay for the silk which has to come out of what I produce. If I could produce the silk myself, the cost of my production would be zero.

  15. “Imagine the machines made everything.”

    On what basis then are the products to be distributed (amongst those who took no part in production)?

  16. @Smith

    You’re just the man I need if you charge your time at nothing. Mrs Bison has a list of chores as long as your arm.

  17. Doesn’t mater, does it? We don;t worry about the distribution of seawater, do we? Air? There’s more than anyone wants so it’s free.

  18. BiCR

    Agreed.

    But it doesn’t pass the smell test. For example, there was little chance (based on what happened elsewhere in terms of % swings) that Barnsley Central (2017 – Lab 64%, Con 24%!) was going Conservative – whether TBP stood (and threw money & resources at it, and, hence a big swing from Lab to TBP) or didn’t stand (resulting in a much smaller swing shift), whatever question / answer process took place! And “subsequently, with hindsight”..

    And, in any case, I’ll take an analysis like that a whole more seriously if they had also asked Con voters “If the Conservative Party had stood down, how would you have voted”! In Hartlepool, and Barnsley Central and East in particular, if the Cons stand down, the Brexit Party almost certainly does (genuinely) win the seat.

    Otherwise the presumption is that somehow the Brexit Party votes were “owned” by “proper parties”, which of course is the classic Tory trope: “We’re entitled”? And in which case “Thanks, Boris” would be every bit as relevant as “Thanks, Nigel”…

    Theo, as he was earlier, is simply being wilfully and provocatively tribal towards his chosen rosette on any issue of this nature, as the good chap often is..:) Hey, as long as everyone’s happy!

    And all this is despite Farage standing down – with no reciprocal gesture (that we know of) – in 317 Con seats before the names even went it! Oh dear..:)

    Apologies, it’s O/T.

  19. Tim

    “Imagine the machines made everything. No, really, everything. Even the machines that made the machines that repaired the machines.”

    I suspect in the greater scheme of things that, by that stage, we’ll little more than pets (if we’re lucky)!

  20. “Twenty socialist scumbags in parliament who shouldn’t be there! I want to see the Labour party ground to dust, not merely a pile of rubble…”

    Theo

    In that, I agree with you completely. In which case, it’s a shame Nigel and Boris didn’t chat? And quietly – as BiW noted last time (re not wanting a similarly coordinated response from the other side?).

  21. TMB: Mrs B would have to pay me at least as much (prolly somewhat more) as I could earn making straw hats for myself, in my own time, as my own master, to do her chores, but none of this involves a cost of production.

  22. “Doesn’t mater, does it?”

    Well I would think that those who own the machines and those who hold title to the land would have something to say about it”

  23. I read through some of the Green New Deal material a while ago and an increase in agricultural employment was held up as a benefit. That’s right. We’ve spent hundreds, no, thousands of years trying to get people out of the fields and these soft-handed desk jockeys suddenly think wet, cold, dangerous, backbreaking outdoors work is somehow a good and noble thing to be aspired to

  24. Well, you could be right Tim, but, I’d rather that when I paid my taxes, they weren’t doled out to people for feck all, and if it meant that I paid more for food and services and less tax to idle feckers, then cost or benefit? – I’d see it as a benefit. It would also stop the UK being the destination of preference to scum from certain parts of the world. But then I’m neither an economist nor an accountant. Perhaps it shows.

  25. @Smith

    Would you rather hire 10 guys at £10ph each for 8 hours to cut your hedge with clippers?

    Or one guy at £15ph for 4 hours to cut your hedge with petrol hedge-cutter?

    Manual guys costs £800, machine guy costs £60

  26. Labour losing more seats would make Johnson appear stronger than he is. The Brexit Party vote will be zero next time IF the Conservatives leave.

    The majority is big enough. Bigger wouldn’t actually help.

    A worse defeat and Labour might actually start to properly reflect how shit they are. Good in the long run for a country, but bad in the short term for Boris.

  27. Bloke in North Dorset

    Pcar,

    When I was working in New Delhi in ‘95 the hotel had men with clippers cutting the lawn Labour was that cheap.

  28. Yes notice it is Emily that is on Spud’s wavelength, not the other way round.

    The pomposity of the man knows no ends.

    His intelligence knows no beginnings.

    I hope the corbynistas keep control. No way back for spud.

  29. In the comments he is supporting Keir Starmer for Labour leader. Presumably as he fell out with Corbyn/McDonnell he doesn’t want to support Long-Bailey and is hoping there may be a way back for him under a different leader.

  30. When we switched to using engines we got rid of the horses. What’s you plan for getting rid of the surplus labour?

  31. “If I could produce the silk myself, the cost of my production would be zero.”

    No opportunity cost in your universe?

  32. Grinding the Tory Party to dust is next item on the list, Theo. The rotting corpse may be walking & talking, but it’s still a rotting corpse.

  33. “No opportunity cost in your universe?”

    If the total value of my output of straw hats was greater when I bought in the silk rather than producing the silk myself, then I would be better off buying in the silk; if not, then I would be better off producing the silk myself.

  34. Jerry, Smith uses the tried and true Cuban Model.

    With 50% unemployment, his time has no value.

    And there are no opportunity costs when there is no opportunity.

  35. @BiND

    <10 me saw similar in Tunisia holiday in 1970 and wondered why, my father explained why. Also saw first strange white, father explained albino. Ms Grievance would no doubt say my father was Mr Mansplaining

  36. @Smith December 19, 2019 at 2:46 am

    Wolfie, ignoring my post – a sure sign of a defeated Troll

    Rabbit hole diversion next?

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