Most amusing

Graham says:
January 19 2020 at 6:52 am
Keynes asked what do you do when the facts change? What facts have changed to turn remainers like May and Javid into hard leavers? Johnson has no principles so no mystery there. But the others, are they all simply opportunists devoid of all integrity?

Reply
Richard Murphy says:
January 19 2020 at 8:37 am
Yes

And the facts did not change

Their career opportunities did

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23 comments on “Most amusing

  1. The EU’s behaviour over the last three years would turn anyone normal into a hard Leaver. But I get the impression that hard Remainers are the sort of people to whom the ideal weekend is being tied up in a dungeon while someone in leather thrashes them severely 🙂

  2. As I speak, your mate Murphy’s on BBC television (Politics South West), giving his tuppence worth on Flybe.

  3. I think Javid did always lean towards Leave, but made the career calculation that remain would win. And now has to make up for that.

  4. Strange that the simple and obvious answer eludes them. Maybe, May and Javid accepted the terms of the referendum, that they would respect the outcome of the vote?

  5. Two of our friends who voted Remain became Leavers mainly because they thought the referendum result should be honoured. There was also an element at being appalled at so many of their fellow remainers becoming or coming out as, quislings; plus, of course, horror at the antics of the EU.

  6. One of the amusing aspects of this has been the invention of the ” remainer who has accepted Brexit”. This chimerical figure has been shown not to exist by research and surveys over three years . in fact I doubt such a thing has ever been more closely studied and every scrap of evidence shows that no-ones opinion has changed .In fact positions have hardened into real a sort of immoderate loathing for ones fellow citizens I cannot recall.
    Nonetheless in public spaces the Dodo / Unicorn cross is omnipresent ..so why is that ?
    The reason is that after the referendum the assumption would be that leavers are incapable of telling the truth , do not accept the concept of expertise or even evidence as a basis of debate and as such are outside any ongoing discussion
    More narrowly the behaviour of the Conservative Party has been a jaw dropping demonstration that politics is chiefly concerned with power to the exclusion of all other considerations. Respect for Parliament as an institution has is a ruined idea and it will never recover

  7. “More narrowly the behaviour of the Conservative Party has been a jaw dropping demonstration that politics is chiefly concerned with power to the exclusion of all other considerations. ”

    Yes. It is amazing that politicians ignoring the wishes of the majority of the electorate is a good way to not get re-elected. And equally amazing the Tories actually realised this. Unlike Labour or the Limp-Dims. But that’s the problem with democracy, isn’t it? You just can’t rely on the electorate doing what they”re told by their betters.

  8. Newmania, we do exist.
    Plenty of remain voters agree that we lost and now we have to leave. We are all brexiters now, except those who are emigrating to somewhere foreign.

    Don’t have to like the result of the vote, we do accept it and uphold it as the will of those voting.
    Much to the annoyance of the more rabid groups on each side.

  9. Newmania

    One of the amusing aspects of this has been the invention of the ” remainer who has accepted Brexit”.

    Has Toby been on the wacky backy then?

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/the-delusion-of-the-born-again-brexiteers/

    Turns out, trying to apply Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s bereavement model is wrong. There aren’t five stages of grief following a big political defeat, just two. Anger, followed swiftly by the enthusiastic embrace of all your enemy’s beliefs.

    Isn’t it time to embrace the future – and join us!

  10. There should be a documentary following those weeping Remainers, tearfully leaving the land of their birth to enjoy the sunshine and continual happiness of the EU 27. Their surprise as they run into gilet jaune protests or get teargassed by the CRS. Their mystification as they wander around the Islamic street market in Brussels, their struggles to find a job in Spain or Italy, their terror if they wander outside the centre of Amsterdam and find themselves in Bijlmer… Could be very funny

  11. What Martin says. I voted Remain, wanted the referendum result respected, was appalled by May’s deal, and am much happier with Johnson’s version. No unicorns.

  12. Newms,
    Not my experience at all. Last year I was doing some work along with four others; I was the only one who’d voted Leave. After the EU’s antics and the first Brextension in March at least 3/4 of the others were leavers, one rabidly so*.

    *not sure about the last one. A progressive millennial type so probably not. The others didn’t have any strong feelings either way at the time of the vote, they’d just swallowed all the economic arguments about the status quo.

  13. @ Newmania
    I have previously said words on this blog for you to read that are very similar to what Martin and Napsjam said. It seems that you have lost the ability to read due to the trauma of seeing Brexit approaching reality.
    I was appalled when May’s deal effectively sold out Gibraltar and warned my family that it would fail. I am none too keen on Johnson’s but he has enough votes to push it through.

  14. The facts may not have changed, yet, but they are just about to.

    We’re still in the EU and so could just remain. At 23:00 hrs GMT on 31 Jan we will no longer be members and would have to apply to rejoin, which would entail none of the opt outs we currently have, loss of the rebate and probably some sort of commitment to the Euro.

    That should be enough of a change of facts to make sensible Remainers change their minds.

  15. Bit rich going on about remainers turned brexiters given we have had 3 years of MSM (and Newmania) telling us about ‘leavers remorse’ and that a new referendum would be a win for remain

  16. I have referred to a thing we used to call evidence,and I have also explained why no-one wants to be accused of having supported Brexit. As I have said …it is amazingly amazing how no-one owns up to being what all surveyed shows to being the overwhelming majority……

  17. Hi Newmy, you can only see things if you open your eyes. If you insist on going around with your eyes tightly shut or your head firmly stuck in your backside, of course you will never see the hordes of Leave voters

  18. @Bloke in Wales January 19, 2020 at 11:07 am

    Javid did always lean towards Leave, but made the career calculation that remain would win

    Agree. Exactly why I don’t trust him – he put career & party above principles and country, as did many Con MPs.

    MPs Represent constituents/country? Bollocks

    @john77 January 19, 2020 at 6:37 pm

    Going by May’s pre & post ref speeches, I believe May was a “LINO” – didn’t like EU, but too scared of leave & change

    @Bloke in North Dorset January 19, 2020 at 5:32 pm

    Brexit Party MEP Alexandra Phillips rages at ‘Bonkers’ EU’s astonishing future vision
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yXTdZh7ldU

  19. The reason is that after the referendum the assumption would be that leavers are incapable of telling the truth , do not accept the concept of expertise or even evidence as a basis of debate and as such are outside any ongoing discussion

    I think you have to admire the persistence if nothing else. There are a fair few like NM on my timelines on Social media. For them the EU can do no wrong. They are in effect a permanent fifth column which will exit for many years after Brexit. one of the more baleful consequences of our foray into Europe over 4 decades….

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