So why aren’t we all talking about Diane Abbott’s son?

Well, for myself:

The alleged attacks took place over the last six months at three London hospitals, the Homerton Hospital in Hackney, the Royal Free in Hampstead and Mile End Hospital in Tower Hamlets.

The last assault on a hospital worker is said to have taken place just two days before Christmas.

He also faces one count of exposure on a hospital ward.

The laddie’s having problems rather than being one perhaps. There but for the Grace of etc. Hope he gets better soon is really the only worthwhile comment here.

55 thoughts on “So why aren’t we all talking about Diane Abbott’s son?”

  1. Has the troubled young man had a positive male role model during his formative years? Perhaps he identifies Jeremy Corbyn as his dad – this could cause a lot of mental anxiety and trauma. Larry Elder keeps banging on about these issues, and about two things that keeps a young black person out of poverty and statistics are in one’s favour: 1. don’t get pregnant under 21 years of age 2. graduate from high school.

  2. Allthegoodnamesaretaken

    Just follow the success sequence: get the highest level of education that you can. Get a job. Get married. Then have children.

  3. If he was just mental, he’d have been quietly sectioned. No charges would have been brought.

    So…there’s something else going on here.

  4. You’ve got to be really bad to get sectioned these days. The grey area between being criminally responsible and being a total nutter is very large indeed.

  5. You’re right. The temptation was there to write a snarky piece or at least tweet a snarky tweet heaping scorn on his privilege and/or his mother’s parenting skills. That’s what the Left would have done if the Oxbridge-educated, privileged child of a non-Left celeb had treated NHS angels thus.

    But we’re not the Left. We’re better than them in oh so many moral ways — indeed since their whole envy-driven, hateful, violent, grasping creed is immoral, in ALL of them. We must judge individuals by their behaviours and the content of their characters not by slapdash reference to political tribes, classes, races, or “genders”. And it sounds like the poor young guy has severe mental health issues so the temptation must be resisted and best wishes for a speedy, full recovery offered.

    That’s the answer to your question as far as decent folk are concerned but the Left in the media don’t share our moral scruples, they’re just trading on them to spare one of their leaders and let the story die. It’s a small but perfectly-formed example of how constrained we are as we fight them for our civilisation’s survival.

  6. “You can’t expect a boy to be vicious till he’s been to a good school”

    (Saki, “The Baker’s Dozen”)

  7. @Tom: ’ And it sounds like the poor young guy has severe mental health issues…’

    Late onset ones, if his early civil service career is anything to go by.

    And still that question of the charges persists. They don’t charge lightly, and there would have been pressure not to in this case.

  8. Hah! This might be too much information but – the smallest room’s current book is a book of quotations. The most recent reading of which was Saki’s (as HH Munro given the way they’ve run the alphabet) contributions of which that was one. About 20 minutes ago I was reading that quote…..

  9. Bloke in North Dorset

    Tom,

    That’s the answer to your question as far as decent folk are concerned but the Left in the media don’t share our moral scruples, they’re just trading on them to spare one of their leaders and let the story die. It’s a small but perfectly-formed example of how constrained we are as we fight them for our civilisation’s survival.

    As the saying goes, the left think the right are evil, the right think the left are misguided, or words to that effect.

    So yes, our fight is with their ideas, not the person.

  10. A 6 month rampage and only now is there action?

    I thought the NHS had a zero tolerance policy on staff intimidation and assault or does that only apply to people whose parents aren’t ‘defenders of the NHS’?

  11. @Tom:

    ” We must judge individuals by their behaviours and the content of their characters not by slapdash reference to political tribes, classes, races, or “genders”. ”

    To paraphrase Trotsky (real name Lev Bronstein): ” You may not be interested in Identity Politics, but Identity Politics is interested in you.”

  12. The Right can imagine that quiet tut-tutting is the right course of action but it leaves a vacuum that the Left are filling with their vile out-pourings.

    It’s time for a robust response that points out that these people are hypocritical arseholes so they can be finished off for good.

    Definitely no cultural reason why single black mothers can’t raise decent kids despite going to the wall for them.

  13. Because he is not important.
    As for his parentage, I understand that a better man said “That is my misfortune, not my fault”

  14. (1) The poor sod is mad.

    (2) While there seemed to be a decent chance that his mother would become Home Secretary he was accorded a disgraceful degree of privilege.

    It’s pretty unlikely that his mother is responsible for (1); it’s even conceivable that her role in (2) is less disgusting than that of her “co-conspirators”. Indeed, it may hardly have been a conspiracy at all – perhaps it was just a case of The Left doing what comes naturally.

    How he came to be hired by the F.O. in the first place might be worth an inquiry. But maybe he’s schizophrenic and the symptoms didn’t emerge until after he was hired. I have had to deal with two undergraduates who suddenly showed symptoms at about age 21 – they were dreadful episodes.

    Even more dreadful was to witness the pain and bewilderment of their poor bloody parents.

  15. “You’ve got to be really bad to get sectioned these days. The grey area between being criminally responsible and being a total nutter is very large indeed.”

    Not really, it depends on your history. A person with a mental health ‘record’ will be sectioned far more quickly than one without. I have personal experience of this – the brother of a good friend has been sectioned multiple times after behaving erratically in public and/or breaking the law, he has never been charged with anything he did, which includes once driving while under the influence of drink and drugs the wrong way up a dual carriageway (fortunately no one was injured). He has a long record of mental health problems, going back to childhood. The police don’t like to get involved in charging people with known mental health issues.

    So in this case, given the person was already involved with the mental health system I find it very unlikely that the police did not have him assessed by mental health professionals prior to be charged. And they must have found that he was fit to be charged, otherwise he’d have been sectioned.

  16. There was something odd about how he lost his fast-track FO job at the embassy in Rome – heard rumours about it but nothing definite. Not a good time for the lad.

  17. Of course, had a son of – say – Jacob Rees-Mogg behaved like this it would have been all over the papers and Beeb for months. But that probably goes without saying, doesn’t it?

  18. Tom, BiND–I agree that the kid being a mental case is not likely his fault.

    Indeed his Mam looked like a mental case in the two mismatched shoes photo so it may be a family thing.

    While you are correct in the largest sense you are tactically wrong. See the “Life and Death of Colonel Blimp” for dramatised instruction.

    We are engaged in war with the supreme evil of the Left. If this kid gives as an oppo to do to our enemies–the foes of all decent humanity–what they are trying daily to do to us then we should seize it with both hands and shake it like a Rottweiller.

  19. “Of course, had a son of – say – Jacob Rees-Mogg behaved like this it would have been all over the papers and Beeb for months. But that probably goes without saying, doesn’t it?”

    Well thats precisely the point, isn’t it? We’re fighting a war with our hands tied behind our backs, voluntarily. There comes a point in total war when its no longer about winning ‘the right way’, it becomes about winning, end of.

    When do we reach that point in the war with the Left?

  20. Eh, I don’t think there’s much political juice in slamming Diane Abbott’s lunatic son. What’s the most likely outcome of that? Ah, yes – an elderly black woman crying on the telly. Exactly what we don’t need.

    It’s like the fantasy about Brexiters mobbing the streets or what-have-you. Twas never gonna happen, because we’re dealing with two different tribes with different values and patterns of behaviour.

    Do things that raise the morale of your troops, and don’t do things that lower it. The Left loves going after people’s families, just as they love a demo. People on our side aren’t wired the same way. Doesn’t mean you have to be a bow-tied pushover, just means you need to pick battles that you can win, with winning being defined by demoralising the baddies and making the goodies have their tails up.

    A wise and ancient Chinaman said “Man who catch fly with chopstick, accomplish anything.”

    Really makes u think.

  21. “Diane …. marr[ied] … in 1991. They had one son together …. in 1992, before divorcing in 1993”

    Wa? th b? w? h?!!! ???

    I’m literally speechless!

  22. @ dearieme and Jim
    The Beeb is, instead, running a story about John Major missing watching the UK’s only Gold Medal in the Atlanta Olympics “to watch cricket” as if it was his duty to know in advance which medals we should win and fly 5000-odd miles to congratulate winners in person. Oh, and him saying that it would be ridiculous to have different time zones for Scotland and England (with england on Berlin time and Scotland on London time).
    Distraction tactics

  23. I appreciate the sentiments of those who want to differentiate between the travails of this poor wretch, and the political stance of his mother. But had the latter not educated him in a manner which has become a by-word for political hypocrisy, or attempted to justify this by reference to her desire to avoid him becoming a young black London criminal, or herself been racist, then this would hardly have made the news.

    The wages of hypocrisy are, in this case, worse than not bothering in the first place, and that is a moral lesson worth publicising.

  24. I found out a former work colleague (from a business with less than 10 employees, so we were reasonably close) had been sectioned. He was slightly bipolar and OCD (not unusually so for a techie :)) when I knew him, but apparently had a bad breakdown – nothing violent, just mad schemes for extracting sunbeams out of cucumbers and so forth.

  25. Under the American system designed by the Brown govt the Sentencing Guidelines are quite specific:
    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Assault-definitive-guideline-Web.pdf
    From discharge to Life Imprisonment, depending on which category of assault (there are 6) with a rough average of 4 years.

    Having Diane Abbott as your mother may be considered a mitigating factor in a simple case, but carries less weight with offences at three hospitals and the FCO itself. Abuse of illegal drugs is no mitigation.

    Dearieme: were the schizophrenics you were involved in already heavy users of cannabis?

  26. “were the schizophrenics you were involved in already heavy users of cannabis?”

    Not that I know of. I passed the cases to qualified hands; I wouldn’t have expected them to break patient confidentiality to tell me any more. I did learn a few generalities – it was a common age for the symptoms first to appear, the chances of a permanent cure were about nil, and so forth.

    Long ago when I was the warden of a Hall of Residence my students reported to me that one of their number, whose dope smoking they had been happy to overlook, had dropped acid and had had to be restrained from trying to fly down a stairwell. I learnt that the constabulary weren’t interested – they had a deal with the uni that any such case that didn’t involve harm to others should be dealt with by the uni health service. And so off he went; I never saw him again.

    I can remember from my own undergraduate days how suddenly marijuana appeared – and how, without exception, all the early users I knew were people (mainly male) who were already discernibly a bit potty.

  27. Doesn’t she have form for insisting Afro-Caribbean mothers are the best, willing to do more for their kids than white mothers

  28. Come to think of it, maybe my stairwell flyer was a third case of schizophrenia. I can’t even recall who came to clear up his belongings and I’m pretty certain that I didn’t meet his family. Anyway, enough of this; I shouldn’t have mentioned it. They are disagreeable memories.

  29. If the lad has had a breakdown, how long before someone in The Guardian suggests that it’s a result of living in our horribly racist society?

    “Diane …. marr[ied] … in 1991. They had one son together …. in 1992, before divorcing in 1993”

    So a fairly typical afro-caribbean family history…

  30. Bloke in North Dorset

    When I lived in Bucks my next door neighbours had been missionaries in Africa for years and their 2 sons had lived there as well. The youngest developed schizophrenia around the age of 20 and it was put down to delayed affects of the malaria he’d had when he was about 8. I put it down to the weirdness of his parents, but then I’m not qualified.

    @starfish

    I thought the NHS had a zero tolerance policy on staff intimidation and assault or does that only apply to people whose parents aren’t ‘defenders of the NHS’?

    There’s probably some sort of inverted victimhood poker stretching from:

    White working class male with short hair: zero warnings

    to

    Black, male with important mother: Unlimited warnings or until the Daily Mail is likely to find out.

  31. @m’Lud

    I am wrestling with the concept of racially motivated criminal damage. Do you have a f’rinstance for those untutored in the ways of wrongdoing in the Age of Diversity?

    More generally, it would be interesting to know why he left (/was recalled) from his FCO post in Rome. Perhaps given his subsequent predilection for nibbling coppers and hospital staff, he may have planted his incisors into Her Majesty’s Ambassador rather than the Ferrero Rocher.

  32. Questions at tomworstall.com we can answer:

    Why aren’t we all talking about Diane Abbott’s son?

    We are.

    Mr B, I don’t think I ever did such a case. I imagine it’s to do with duffing up a chap’s property because you dislike his race. That’s how ‘racially aggravated’ charges usually ‘work’. The cases I did were assault and abusive/threatening words (or some such nonsense). I never understood why the defendants never defended themselves on the basis that, yes, I did indeed say he’s a ‘woggy c**t’, but that’s just because I wanted to offend him, not because I have anything against worthy oriental gentlemen. Or c**ts. Milord. Instead, they always denied saying it, then talked about all their close friends of other races.

  33. >More generally, it would be interesting to know why he left (/was recalled) from his FCO post in Rome.

    I actually posted on Abbott’s son yesterday at my blog. There was an FOI ttempt to find out the details of why he was sacked, but it was refused.

  34. So, to be clear, the indictment would plead something like:

    Ahmed Smith-Scrote, on or about 19th August 2019, at Nelson Mandela Way, did poke on the snoot Kai Charburgundy-Osabanjo, and at the time of so doing, or immediately before so doing, was motivated in the said snoot-poking by hostility to Kai Charburgundy-Osabanjo’s race, namely Jedi.

    I quote loosely from memory. These charges are notoriously garbled.

    Please don’t ask me to defend it.

  35. @Allthegoodnamesaretaken

    +1 beat me to it on drugs – bet he’s a dope-head (and/or smack, crack) and his progressive mother approved

    @Jonathan

    You may not be interested in Identity Politics, but Identity Politics is interested in you

    Was that before or after Stalin sank an ice-pick into Trotsky’s head?

    @dearieme, Hector

    +1

    @BniC

    Yes. Also for haranguing Finnish/Nordic NHS nurses for being ‘too white’ and refusing their care

    A racial discrimination crime @Mr Lud?

  36. There’s undoubtedly a racial dimension to crime, Mr Car.

    Whether that obtains here is another matter…

  37. I don’t really have a theory, clearly he’s going a bit mental, and that may be associated with drug use (although I have no evidence at all of that, it’s just speculation). Or perhaps he was really shit at his job, got sacked, and that revealed his nasty, slightly mental side.

    It’s noticeable that his LinkedIn page, updated in 2019, shows no signs of madness. You might say, perhaps Diane re-wrote it for him, but it shows no sign that she has done so, as it’s well-written and doesn’t have spelling mistakes and is not written in crayon.

    Actually his LinkedIn page is a bit suspicious, in that with his past jobs he described what he did, whereas with his latest job it lt says nothing specific about what he does, it’s just a cut-and-paste job about the company (HewardMills).

  38. Anyone on here has a handle on the causes of schizophrenia? BiG?
    If median onset is typically in your twenties I can see that historically the disease could have a genetic basis. Mild symptoms (grandiosity, visions, impetuous aggression) may even have helped prehistoric young males to get laid.
    But recent trends to later fatherhood would tend to remove the S gene. Instead it appears to be more and more common.
    Without a genetic explanation I can only think of illegal drugs.
    Any other suggestions?

  39. “Without a genetic explanation I can only think of illegal drugs.
    Any other suggestions?”

    My feeling is that schizophrenia is entirely genetic in origin, its just that drug taking pushes more people over the line so to speak. IE a person who had something of a genetic tendency to schizophrenia might not develop it, if they didn’t hoover up industrial quantities of drugs, especially weed. Hence why it gets young men in the 20s and 30s – they get involved in drug taking and that triggers the latent mental issues.

    Of course one could argue that the genetic tendency to mental health issues is what draws them to drugs in the first place, so the argument is a bit circular. But my feeling is that these things do not come out of the blue – the signs will be there from a young age.

  40. philip, Ken beat me to it, but my anecdotal experience supports his comment. I’d also throw in foetal alcohol syndrome as an occasional factor, plus skunk although, as Jim says, that bit can be rather circular.

  41. Bloke in North Dorset

    Ken,

    Thanks, an interesting read and obviously an under researched area and it looks like a combination of factors and would make uncomfortable reading in some quarters, especially the link to family separation:

    CONCLUSION
    The high level of schizophrenia in black Caribbeans living in the UK probably reflects the interaction of multiple risk factors, many of which cluster in the black Caribbean community in the UK. Particularly significant factors appear to be the combination of isolation and exclusion, both within society (living in areas of low ethnic density and reduced participation in society) and within the family (family break-up and paternal separation). These factors seem to be more powerful than socioeconomic disadvantage, which is more likely to be a consequence than causal. Racism itself may contribute to social exclusion, increasing the vulnerability to schizophrenia. Biological or genetic susceptibility do not appear to explain high rates of schizophrenia in black Caribbeans. More research is needed about the role of cannabis, particularly in its more potent forms, and whether this contributes to the excess of schizophrenia in black Caribbeans.

    Understanding of high rates of schizophrenia in some ethnic groups may be enhanced by an exploration of protective factors. South Asians have experienced migration, problems with cultural assimilation, and sociodemographic disadvantage, and yet they experience only marginally higher rates of schizophrenia than those of the white British population. Further study is needed on whether social cohesion and strong family support or other factors within the South Asian community confer a protective effect.

    However this doesn’t really explain the charges to Mr Abbott, as others have pointed out if it was linked to schizophrenia of other mental illness it wouldn’t be in the public interest to bring charges and also ….

    I had a quick look down the rabbit hole of mens rea yesterday because I’d seen a comment some time ago that it seems to have fallen out of favour as a test with the police and prosecutors, perhaps M’Led would like to comment? From my understanding schizophrenia falls in to that category.

    Another explanation could be that the social stigma of mental illness in society, and the black Caribbean community in particular, means they’d rather face criminal charges than admit mental health problems?

  42. I’ve seen loads of schizophrenics charged.

    In my experience neither the rozzers nor the CPS are, past a certain point of criminality, interested in making nice and humane – and on this occasion, I do not criticise them for that (there’s plenty else we can stick the boot into the bastards for).

    The attitude then adopted is that whilst it may be plain that the miscreant is off his rocker, it is for the defence to raise it, whereupon, if there is medical evidence that he is indeed away with the faeries, there is what is known as a ‘trial of issue’ – a somewhat farcical proceeding in which the miscreant or defendant who, by definition cannot instruct his lawyers or challenge the evidence against him, is assessed by the jury as having done or not done the factual thing alleged against him. Mens rea, the guilty mind, being irrelevant to the jury’s deliberations in such circs.

    He’s then given a hospital order which, among criminal lawyers, is usually considered to be the worst of all fates. It’s basically an indeterminate sentence. I knew one bloke served nearly 30 years that way, and for criminality which, had he been entirely sane, he’d have served maybe five years (I’m going from memory, and his was an extreme and unusual example).

    In my experience, Ken, mens rea has never been a primary consideration of prosecutors. In my experience they’ve always had to follow the Code for Crown Prosecutors (I think there is now a Code for Private Prosecutors, also), which sets out a two stage test: 1) is there a realistic prospect of conviction, 2) is prosecution in the public interest?
    Again, in my experience, if 1) is passed, then 2) is a shoe-in. If mens rea ever entered the fray, it was because the CPS reviewing lawyer concluded that mens rea would be difficult to prove and therefore there was no realistic prospect of conviction.

    Final point. I must have read scores of psych reports and never, not once, have I ever seen the words ‘mad’ or ‘madness’ used. I can’t recall if I saw ‘insanity’ but my acquaintance with murder cases was limited, so that is perhaps unsurprising. Instead ‘psychosis’ seems to be the preferred euphemism nowadays. Anti-psychotic medication seems to be ferociously powerful – if, and it’s often a big ‘if’, taken by the afflicted. Below psychosis there is then a hierarchy of conditions all the way down to ‘undiagnosed, non-specific personality disorder’, with things like Aspy’s, depression and PTSD (that’s quite a biggie, actually) along the way. So it’s quite possible that this troubled young Abbott is not psychotic but instead has one or more other afflictions as to which we may or may not sympathise in his apparent inability to handle them.

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