Spot the difference

Restricting immigration will mean:

This policy has a range of potential outcomes. Presuming the lost jobs are not filled as the policy begins to impact, as surely it will, then there will be significant short staffing in agriculture, food processing, catering, tourist industries, the NHS, care facilities, building and other sectors. These sectors will not be able to deliver their services. The knock on effect will not being significant increases in wages when there isn’t capacity to either reduce margins or increase prices significantly; the consequence will be corporate failures. Businesses facing inevitable losses will close before that point is reached. And the job losses will then reach the sectors of the economy traditionally staffed by UK domiciled staff.

Raising the minimum wage will mean:

This policy has a range of potential outcomes. Presuming the lost jobs are not filled as the policy begins to impact, as surely it will, then there will be significant short staffing in agriculture, food processing, catering, tourist industries, the NHS, care facilities, building and other sectors. These sectors will not be able to deliver their services. The knock on effect will not being significant increases in wages when there isn’t capacity to either reduce margins or increase prices significantly; the consequence will be corporate failures. Businesses facing inevitable losses will close before that point is reached. And the job losses will then reach the sectors of the economy traditionally staffed by UK domiciled staff.

34 thoughts on “Spot the difference”

  1. I assume that restricting the supply of labour below a certain price will have the effect of driving up the price of labour to that point. So…cutting immigration drives up wages. Especially for those on the lowest incomes. Which is precisely what is happening in the USA right now. Mexican wall = blue collar party. Overall it forces redistribution of the gains from business towards labour and away from capital. No wonder then that capital is wailing and labour (the people who voted for Brexit – not the party!) are going ‘Yay!’.

  2. Over the last few years, the BoE and mainstream economists, such as Simon Wrong-Lewis, have been queuing up to lecture us that minimum wages do not affect employment and that immigration has no impact on wages. They don’t appear to have taken any account of recent developments. Why should Captain Potato? If he is in line with official mainstream thought then why should he? It is reality that is at fault

  3. My father would have skelped my arse if I’d bullied The Thickest Boy In The School the way you bully poor old Cap’n Dimwit.

  4. ” but British people don’t want to do those low-paid jobs! They are not suited for the service and catering sectors! Who is going to do all this work?! “

  5. In other news, corporate employers have lobbyists and influence. Low-paid workers don’t. And some people who ought to give a toss about low-paid workers seem not to, for reasons beyond my comprehension unless they are in sympathy with corporate employers.

  6. Too strange and ignorant to comment on.

    We used to get the defense of open borders in the U.S. as the illegal immigrants “do the jobs Americans won’t do.”

    There’s no job Americans wouldn’t do for a hundred bucks an hour.

    ‘there will be significant short staffing in agriculture, food processing, catering, tourist industries, the NHS, care facilities, building and other sectors.’

    So these sectors are being propped up by government, which is manipulating the labor supply.

    ‘The knock on effect will not being significant increases in wages when there isn’t capacity to either reduce margins or increase prices significantly’

    Limiting the supply of labor won’t raise wages? On Alpha Centauri. The ex-professor’s grasp of economics is stunning! As if everything he learned his brain stored it backwards.

    “It isn’t so much that liberals are ignorant. It’s just that they know so many things that aren’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

  7. Isn’t one of the signs of senile dementia the loss of short term memory.

    I also note that Tom Kibasi in the groaniard is banging a similar drum – the massive increase in low skilled labour from the EU hasn’t depressed wages – it’s down to evil employers having too much power, not a ready over supply of cheap labour which benefit employers. Where do these idiots come from – haven’t they heard of supply and demand?

  8. Dennis, He Of The Gently Sloping Forehead

    Here’s the point: Unrestricted immigration and a high minimum wage creates a large pool of people who are dependent upon government largess for survival. More than anything, that’s what people like Richard Murphy want.

    While Capital may wish to have a large pool of unemployed/underemployed available to depress wages, the statist (which is what Murphy is) wishes to have a large pool of unemployed/underemployed available to acquire and maintain political power. This is done by either offering or withholding government largess.

    Massive poverty and unemployment in urban African-American cities is not, in the eyes of Democratic Party politicians, a bug; it is a feature. That’s because those same politicians reap 90+% of the vote of that demographic. There has never been a “War on Poverty” in the USA. The war has always been to maintain poverty. Welfare popped up in the late 1960s. Not because it would lift people out of poverty, but because it provide just enough money to the urban poor to quell unrest: It was riot insurance, nothing more.

  9. Dennis, CPA to the Gods

    On the other hand he is a Chartered Accountant so I suppose it’s all right.

    And on the other, other hand he is a professionally incompetent Chartered Accountant, so it really isn’t all right.

  10. “Now, it so happens that I do think that there is considerable underemployment in the UK economy.”

    This is the very same Richard Murphy who has spent the last decade and a half telling us precisely the opposite. Telling us that this is due to austerity. Telling us that we need Green QE. Telling us that we need a Green New Deal. That the increase in self-employment is actually the low paid who are trying to avoid unemployment.

    This is Richard Murphy, who will tell us whatever suits today and hope we don’t notice he is directly contradicting what he said yesterday.

  11. Dennis, Who Does Not Play A Doctor On TV

    I’m beginning to suspect Richard Murphy suffers from a long-term loss of short-term memory.

    It’s either than or he’s just stupid as all get-out.

    Or both.

  12. Dennis the Merciless, or Merciful, Depending

    Where I come from, accounting and economics are separate disciplines.

    That doesn’t matter when you’re a universal genius like Spud.

  13. Dennis

    As ever you’re spot on – Government policy between 1997 to 2010 was based on the creation of three groups that would solidly vote for Labour. As Gordon Brown said – ‘I want to make Britain Left wing forever’

    Group 1 was the Public Sector, specifically (although not exclusively) the legions of non- jobs (over 1 million created between 1997 and 2008) which were given exclusively to Labour Party sympathisers (and which are the key reason behind the UK’s lack of productivity but because of the ethnic profiles of the job holders this tends to be shied away from)

    Group 2 was immigrants, particularly illegals, whom in some instances (Tower Hamlets and Birmingham) were put onto the ballot through mass postal voting fraud. As you say, the idea for such groups is to keep them in a state of perpetual dependency

    Group 3 were those on benefits or the long term unemployed, which includes people working and in receipt of Working Tax Credit or other supplementary benefits. You can potentially add students to this bunch as well…

    I imagine in the US a similar coalition is the bedrock of the Democrats support. I noted with interest recent CNN commentators who thought that Trump is targeting older Male Black voters especially – if he even shifts to around 18/20% of the Black vote he could be on his way to the best result for the GOP since ’84.

    It really was a massive achievement to create such an unholy coalition, and cemented the by now near- universal consensus (At least amongst people with a brain) that the 1997 -2010 government was the worst potentially since the Norman Conquest.

  14. Dennis, Big Game Hunter-Gatherer

    Yeah, he probably doesn’t know finance, either.

    Probably? You are being uncharacteristically charitable today.

    Knock it off.

  15. If only the Conservatives would keep reminding everyone minimum wage was introduced, in USA, by Dems & Unions to make Blacks etc to expensive to employ we could end this damaging policy

    @Dennis

    The war has always been to maintain poverty

    Same in UK and also maintain uneducated. Oxfam etc now practise it in sh1t hole countries

    @Ironman

    “Now, it so happens that I do think that there is considerable underemployment in the UK economy.”

    Reminds me of AOC saying “Trump’s low unemployment means lots of people have to do two or three full-time jobs to earn enough money to live”

    @Van_Patten

    Spot on. Brown’s tax & benefits scam meant people on £50k pa (2007 wages) received benefits

  16. The object isn’t to get rid of poverty, it’s to get rid of the rich.

    The Left doesn’t love the poor; they hate the rich.

  17. Restricting immigration will mean that jobless East Europeans cannot come here to sell “The Big Issue” while claiming benefits at a far higher level than they would get at home.

  18. Back in the day a lot of these jobs were done by the youf for pocket money. You bought your ten speed bike, ciggies and beer. Built character. Something to do in the summer holidays or weekends.
    Nowadays the argument is that the income should support a family.

  19. I had forgotten, Timbotoo. People use to pay the local teenagers to mow their grass. Not Latin Americans who can’t even speak English.

  20. Businesses facing inevitable losses

    If a “business” is dependent on unlimited cheap foreign labour subsidised by mug taxpayers, the correct response to their lachrymose rent-seeking is “eat poo and die, lol”.

  21. “As far as the left are concerned, the poor are just a weapon.”

    To be discarded as soon as their usefulness is at an end. As the working classes have discovered, and women, gays and lesbians will soon find out when they finally realise that the Left has abandoned them in favour of the AoPs (thank you to BiG for the very descriptive new phrase) and the mentally ill (aka trans people).

  22. “If a “business” is dependent on unlimited cheap foreign labour subsidised by mug taxpayers, the correct response to their lachrymose rent-seeking is “eat poo and die, lol”.”

    I knew two people who employed dozens of Hispanics here in the Carolinas.

    They did not hire them because they were “cheap.” They insisted they paid them the same as everyone else. They hired them (their words) because they showed up on time, worked hard, and had no drama. One said he would need 3 times their number of Americans to do the same job. His business model wouldn’t work with American employees.

    The US government has created vast regulation over employer-employee relationship. A powerful barrier to employment. Hiring foreigners eliminates the barrier. No Hispanic speaking broken English is going to call the EEOC. Hiring foreigners is a natural response to a fascist state.

    The vast numbers of marginally legal foreigner workers in the U.S. is caused by the federal government, and can be fixed by deregulation. Federal protection of workers leads to their unemployment.

  23. The United States of America has cheap food and lots of illegals working in agriculture, fishing. I presume Mexicans can come in as regular tourists and then disappear into the job market.

    Great : the UK is about to bring in a similar system. EU nationals can come to the UK anyway, just without a work permit if they haven’t been here before and can’t make the salary threshold. They get hired as they are good workers, this time the employer doesn’t pay employment taxes as the workers don’t have social security numbers. They might have to let the workers out of the UK every 3 months for a week while they reset their status as tourists or when they get a tip-off that the Border Force is visiting. Hey presto, the jobs still get done, and we get to buy cheap produce.

  24. Bongo

    Sure, but in the UK, the risk of being arrested now tends to deter most employers from that kind of practice (it is specifically the employer’s responsibility to ensure that all staff are kosher, doing whatever checks of passports / right to work etc necessary).

  25. Bongo @ 5:14
    Well, I suppose the Big Issue sellers won’t make the salary threshold and without a regular job won’t qualify for benefits,so it could be a result. OTOH, I have low expectations of government getting anything right even inadvertently.

  26. It’s the Federal government’s job to insure that the person in front of me in the grocery checkout line is here legally.

    Employers hiring illegals can only happen AFTER the government has failed at its job. Charging employers with hiring illegals is a cop out. And a convenient tool for the political state. “Want an ICE raid?”

    I asked my friends if their employees were illegal. Both responded sharply, “How would I know? They the correct papers. They have social security numbers. Are they THEIR papers? Their SS number? I have no way to know.”

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