But the decision to extend the diesel and petrol ban to all hybrid cars took the motor industry by surprise, and was condemned by motoring groups and manufacturers as “a date without a policy”.

Seriously stupid.

More elsewhere later today.

36 thoughts on “Idiots”

  1. I am “shocked “..”shocked” that this government would take credit for something now, leaving the problems for someone else. Why such gang of charlatans might easily be tempted to let borrowing get out of control just to and cover up the mess they have created by prioritising ethnic purity over ..money.
    Your winnings Mr Johnson…

  2. The “kick in the face” to hybrid car owners who “fear their resale value will slump as the ban approaches” is more like a slap with a feather duster. The residual value in a 15 year old car’s trivial unless it’s some sort of collectible exotic.
    But it’s very hard to work out what Boris ( or should we say Cummings?) is trying to achieve here. I get the ploy of taking on the geriatric doomsayer as special advisor. You’re going to have the old cvnt whining on about polar bears whatever happens. So better inside the tent, pissing out then outside pissing in. But this sort of greenery is the fodder of the metropolitan bubble & the dogs on strings in Brighton. The people who ain’t gonna vote Tory in a million years. The new voters in the blue collar constituencies are small c conservatives. They’ll cope with change as it comes along better than most. They’re adaptable. But they don’t like all this Futurama stuff. White Van Man will be thinking, “What happens to me white van? ”
    FFS! The Tories aren’t stupid enough to take all this St Greta stuff seriously, are they?

  3. It occurs. Is this a ploy to counter some of the “level playing field” demands in upcoming negotiation with the EU? The UK doesn’t need to be on a level playing field on environmental matters because it’s already halfway up the next hill & way ahead of the game? And, of course, the UK’s on the receiving end when it comes to UK/EU vehicle import/exports. It’s EU manufacturers would have to be meeting UK standards. BMW/Volkswagen/Mercedes/Renault aren’t going to like it.

  4. @bis

    I think you may be onto something

    I believe Mr Cummings thinks a lot more strategically than people realise – he’s looking at a third term

  5. The problem is that there is no one you can vote for who isn’t promising more of this nonsense. As more of the population cotton onto the fact that this is going to hurt them, and remove their livelihoods expect some rumblings. Whether it’ll be enough for sanity to be seen. Who knows?

    Perhaps there is some sort of Machiavellian plan going on here. This looks like something is being done, but fifteen years away is still kicking the can down the road. So doing something box ticked. But in the meantime the hysteria dies down, the BBC loses it’s income when license fee non payment is decriminalised, and we all carry on as normal. Well, I can dream. That assumes some sentience from the political elites.

    It might kill the market for hybrids though.

  6. No, there is no genius strategy involved here. Boris and co really are caught up in the climate hysteria. And like Sainsbury’s lecturing and punishing their customers for using shopping bags whilst doing nothing themselves to reduce plastic packaging, the government is going to make the people suffer humiliations and deprivations in order to salve its conscience.

    Fuck them.

  7. Good job we’re building all these power stations and the national charging infrastructure required for this.

    I’m not clear on the details of the plan. After 2035 will the sale of new ICE and hybrid vehicles be banned, with a total purge to follow, or is that the date of 100% leccy?

  8. Steve,

    “How to lose voters and make Labour electable, part XXIV”

    Since Cameron, I’ve said the Conservatives have no idea who does, and who might, vote for them. I remember there was some comment that road programmes were cut after Swampy and all that, as if every Conservative and marginal voter didn’t think he was a cunt who was getting in the way of building better roads.

    All this train shit is mostly going to benefit people living in the middle of Birmingham, or later Manchester. Who all vote solid Labour. They’re all banging on about helping the “blue wall”, but the seats in the North and Midlands that they won aren’t metropolitan. If you’re living in Worksop, you aren’t going to go to the station, then take a train to Nottingham, then take a train to Birmingham, to then take a train to London. All at eye-watering costs, crap service, and being stuck next to some arsehole who won’t turn down his techno. You’ll drive to Barnet, park up and take a tube in.

  9. I can’t imagine you could double the size of the grid in less than fifteen years anyway so better get started on all those new power stations stat!

  10. “It might kill the market for hybrids though.”

    Might be worth me picking one up. This ain’t gonna happen and even if it does, 15 years from now, a 3 year old hybrid will be a beater. Maybe some people will panic and start dumping them like they did with diesels a few years ago.

  11. Bloke in North Dorset


    It occurs. Is this a ploy to counter some of the “level playing field” demands in upcoming negotiation with the EU? The UK doesn’t need to be on a level playing field on environmental matters because it’s already halfway up the next hill & way ahead of the game? And, of course, the UK’s on the receiving end when it comes to UK/EU vehicle import/exports. It’s EU manufacturers would have to be meeting UK standards. BMW/Volkswagen/Mercedes/Renault aren’t going to like it.

    Nick Drew makes a good point in a very good post on negotiating with the EU at [email protected]:

    It’s only one of a hundred negotiating tactics; but the Euro-wallahs played this with great success on Mrs May. This is sequence the negotiations must take, because of X and Y. This is the bill the UK must pay, because of A and B. This is why the Irish issue must be addressed first, because of the Good Friday Agreement. Barnier played this card all day long, for months at a time. And May was taken in by it, every time.

    They were limbering up to play it all over again. These are the rules you (obviously!) must accept, because you want access to our markets. They’ve even got a standard embellishment, which they used last time and Barnier explicitly said they were going to use again: it’s up to you (oh, it sounds so reasonable! It’s “Logic”, after all …) – you decide what you want from us, and we’ll tell you the price-tag: the more items you want, the longer you’re going to have to be in talks, and the more of our rules you’re (obviously) going to have to accept.

    Boris has thwarted the whole trick with two simple observations: our standards [environmental, workplace benefits etc etc – listen to the speech] are higher than yours (we set them higher because of our own superior policies); and we could demand you level up to us – but we’re not going to; we’ll just have mutual free trade, thank you. It’s simple: it’s robust: the point has now been made publicly: everyone on our side can easily rehearse it all day long (and would have a helluva problem going home to explain any backsliding on such a straightforward point).

    And yes, I’d like to be in a different place, but lets start from here, it could have been worse.

  12. BoM4 – Yarp.

    Ian Reid – People can vote “none of the above”, which would leave the Tories rubber ducked. Labour’s core vote will still turn out.

    Also, the British are a remarkably patient and polite people, but we’re not so different from the French that the Yellow Vests can’t happen here. Taking away people’s livelihoods would be a good way of bringing the excitement, and I can’t see any conceivable way of doing what the Government says it wants to do by 2035 without massive pain.

    BiS – I don’t believe this is 4D chess, but the best outcome would be for Boris to let Gove be his hate sponge, then chuck him and his evil policies Francis Urquhart style from the roof of the Palace of Westminster.

    F.U. was, of course, a complete bastard, but an effective one.

  13. I’d like to think that the car policy is a ploy….. but it seems to revolve around Boris getting his oats.

    Looking at the National Grid Future Energy pathways there seems to be considerable handwaving and a wonky calendar for commercial vehicles and Hydrogen is posited as “the fuel”… which is complete + utter bollocks.

    I suspect that the Greenpiece, FotE, WWF etc. seconded scum from DECC now embedded in the bowels of out civil service are gloating…. was it 30 or so? activist twerps that Huhne etc. invited in as policy advisors?

  14. The secondhand market deals in cars 20 years old, so in effect they have killed off everything made in the last five years. Where am I going to be able to buy a 20-year-old electric car in 2035 for £500?

    They’ve not just killed off secondhand cars, they’ve killed off mobility, and with it employment. ****EVERY**** job I’ve been offered in the last twelve years has demanded and required me having personal transport.

  15. Double the national grid? More like triple. Note that they’ve also promised to rip everybody’s gas boilers out in 2035, so all that energy supply has to be transfered over to the electric grid.

  16. The story with the National Grid is apparently “don’t worry u guise, if we do it the SMART way, we only need to add 10% generating capacity (or something like that)”

    The smart way involves complicated rationing schemes that require shitloads of complicated physical and software infrastructure that doesn’t exist yet.

    And it’s to be delivered by the same smart people who brought us HS2.

    This could make the Winter of Discontent look like a summer picnic. A bigger own goal than the Poll Tax.

  17. Great news! We have plenty of room for your car factories around Greenville, Spartanburg, and Charleston. SEND ‘EM OVER!

  18. I’ve been wondering about the second hand market and the £500 beater low entry end once we move to electric.
    The way battery performance degrades vs an old ICE engine will make a big difference.
    Any old battery in an electric will have very limited range to the point it may not be usable and if the battery has been replaced it’s a big cost so value of car will be based more on battery residual value. How many 15 year old ICE’s have had engine replaced and how many still have the original battery.
    Hybrid would be better in this case for value as you could just use it as an ICE

  19. Bloke in Costa Rica

    We can pretty much put this in the “things that aren’t going to happen” pile, along with ripping out every gas boiler in the land.

  20. @jgh
    Which secondhand market deals in 20 year old cars? You can’t get a warranty on a car over 10 y.o. Anything over that the traders take in go out to auction. What market there is is on Craigs List & the classified sites

  21. The talk above gave cause to ponder. How’d you feel about buying a second-hand leccy? It’s not like looking at a S/H ICE. Fire her up, look for smoke & check for rattles. Take her for a spin, make sure the steering wheel’s connected to something. That battery might last a 100 miles on a charge. Or 30. Any leccy you go see’s going to be fully charged. But might not even get you home.

  22. @BiCR
    As anyone with a science GCSE and a calculator could have told them. I think the politicos are well aware, but largely expect to be retired before this nonsense becomes an issue.

    AIUI the ‘ban’ on internal combustion engines will only apply to new car sales after 2035. If I’m correct, second-hand hybrids should become more, not less, valuable.

  23. @BiS You can get a dongle (OBD II) for £20 that plugs in under the dash and will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about the state of the battery.

  24. “New sales only.”

    “second-hand … should become more, not less, valuable.”

    And hence, perhaps some stocking up also on ICE vehicles in the years immediately before any such future ban? Lots of us have done that – bought something existing just before some new idiot legislation came into play?

  25. ‘value of car will be based more on battery residual value’

    If waste management cost for old EV cars – battery disposal – is significant, an old EV may have NEGATIVE value!

  26. If they’re not looking at major investment in gen 4 nuclear power stations, it means that they’re full of it. That or Boris is really a twat.

  27. Bloke on M4
    Worksop Man, if he was taking a train to London, would just carry on down from Nottingham to St Pancras and have no need to go anywhere near Birmingham.
    There seems to be a myth/lie spread by HS2 hucksters that the only route to anywhere North of Watford is via Birmingham.

  28. Windy; the reporting seems to Focus only upon cars. If this is correct as to the actual legislation that eventually arrives, then I expect some smart arse to sell a) vans and b) a load of seats. Separately.

    Again, it’s not impossible that they might end up defining battery in such a way that the development and sale of something else, say fuel-cells, is prohibited. Great idea.

  29. News:

    C4: After Claire “Nanny Green” Perry sacked, Cameron says he’s “too busy” to lead Glasgow COP, who should do it?

    Sir, sir, I know; Owen Patterson

    Ex MP Sacked Conservative minister Claire “Nanny Green” Perry O’Neill say’s Boris doesn’t understand
    (Perry has three children from her former marriage. Three months after she announced her separation, it was reported that Perry had begun a relationship with Professor Bill O’Neill. Perry and O’Neill married in 2018
    O’Neill – RC?)




    After 2035 will the sale of new ICE and hybrid vehicles be banned, with a total purge to follow

    Yes. The purge being massive increases on fuel duty & ved

    Front Page of FT today summarised “Car & Van Makers say: Boris is insane”

  30. PCar; and there was me thinking of bidding on a shitload of Transits out of ParcelFarce. Oh, well, never mind.

  31. Good point, Ducky Mc. People will adjust, probably not in ways government wants.*

    In the U.S., overbearing regulation on the car industry has led to giant growth in the pickup truck and SUV business. Ford has announced it will stop car production in the U.S., save the Mustang.

    *Government exists for the people. People having to adjust because of government action is wrong at its core.

  32. ‘marinelink.com/news/seawater-receives-capture410888’.

    If the UK really wanted net zero carbon emissions, the above reference is obviously the way to go. But of course you’d have to build the nukes to extract the CO2 and H2, and then the synfuel plants to turn it into petrol. Still, maybe if Britain had spent all the money it’s wasted on Middle Eastern wars for the last 30 years on this instead, it might now be both pure green and self-sufficient in fuel.

    However I do agree that this is really just virtue signalling, with the blame dumped in the lap of those in power when, surprise surprise, it doesn’t happen.

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