Fascinating, innit?

The row came as it emerged that thousands of extra ventilators ordered for patients critically ill with coronavirus are not expected to be ready for a number of months, despite the disease’s anticipated peak looming….

‘S like that delivery of the new socialist tanks that really, really, worked against the 88 mm guns. Delivery 1947.

26 thoughts on “Fascinating, innit?”

  1. More and more little cracks will appear in the “we’re all in this together ” pile of bullshit.

  2. @RLJ – interesting that the mopping up of medical supplies started in January. In mid-Jan China was still claiming the virus couldn’t be spread by humans. State-owned Greenland operates in the UK and US too.

  3. Someone made a row about Dyson making emergency supplies when the official supplier was being too slow? Who the hell? Presumably one of Screwtape’s team.
    If the other people cannot make them when they are needed we should all be cheering Dyson.

  4. Bloke in North Dorset

    We’re in the “doing something stage”.

    If we’re to believe the Jonah’s we should be preparing for the next wave and these could go in to storage. And tt should be noted that one of the reasons they won’t be ready is that they need to go through regulatory approval.

    Talking of regulatory approval, Cato was reporting that CDC refused to approve private test kits and only approved their own, which not only didn’t work but when they did were sent to the wrong places. Trump blamed.

    And I see that China sold loads of kits to Czech Republic and Spain that didn’t work. And yet the MSM still reports information from China with the credulity that would embarrass a 5-year-old.

  5. and on the other hand British commissioned the p 51 mustang – from the Yanks who designed it from scratch in april and prototype delivered in like 5 months? –

  6. The Other Bloke in Italy

    You can have all the ventilators you want, but if there are no trained staff to operate them, the kit is wasted.

  7. Anyone here follow Scott Adams? (I know some do)

    He’s mentioned several times that there’s a tried and tested method of using one ventilator to support up to four patients. Seems a doctor was desperate after the Las Vegas shootings and bodged something together to save his patients & now it’s a know technique in the USA.

    Why aren’t we hearing anything about this?

  8. Lots of people are kicking up a fuss about the UK failure to participate in an EU procurement for ventilators. I had a swift look at the TED pages on Europa.eu and found nothing about any procurement of health hardware. Nothing. Surely the media are not being fooled again, are they?

  9. The actual socialist tanks, the KVs and IS used by the USSR from 1941 (KV) were pretty good against an 88, but there were few 88s in the field in 1941. Socialist tanks were better than the free market tanks of the UK, US and Germany.

    Even UK and US tanks were parked in Berlin in 1945. It seems that vulnerability to the 88 was not a critical factor in the success of all-arms forces.

  10. And without our giving socialist scum a blank cheque how many of those socialist tanks would have been built? How many of ours died or suffered on the Artic convoys getting essentials to them?

  11. The actual socialist tanks, the KVs and IS

    Don’t forget the entire Panzer line of socialist tanks.

  12. Ecks, as a matter of military history the Soviets had no problem making tanks. They had about 12,000 pre-war, mostly useless but designed by Vickers or copied from a US Christie design. They would have been able to build the T-34s and KVs without us. Keep them supplied? Maybe not. These opinions are not to give approval to the communist system, just to say that making tanks is not an area where the free market gave any advantage, apparently. But every wartime economy was a directed economy..

  13. rhoda klapp

    The British provided 40% of the medium and heavy tanks defending Moscow in 1941.

    Not only that:

    ”But since the collapse of the Soviet Union, a trickle of information has emerged from archives in Moscow, shedding new light on the subject. While much of the documentary evidence remains classified “secret” in the Central Archives of the Ministry of Defense and the Russian State Archive of the Economy, Western and Russian researchers have been able to gain access to important, previously unavailable firsthand documents. I was recently able to examine Russian-language materials of the State Defense Committee—the Soviet equivalent of the British War Cabinet—held in the former Central Party Archive.

    Together with other recently published sources, including the wartime diaries of N. I. Biriukov, a Red Army officer responsible from August 1941 on for the distribution of recently acquired tanks to the front lines, this newly available evidence paints a very different picture from the received wisdom. In particular, it shows that British Lend-Lease assistance to the Soviet Union in late 1941 and early 1942 played a far more significant part in the defense of Moscow and the revival of Soviet fortunes in late 1941 than has been acknowledged.Particularly important for the Soviets in late 1941 were British-supplied tanks and aircraft. American contributions of the time were far fewer.

    In fact, for a brief period during December 1941, the relative importance of British aid increased well beyond levels planned by the Allies as a result of American reaction to the outbreak of war with Japan; some American equipment destined for the Soviet Union was actually unloaded from merchant vessels and provided to American forces instead.Even aid that might seem like a drop in the bucket in the larger context of Soviet production for the war played a crucial role in filling gaps at important moments during this period. At a time when Soviet industry was in disarray—many of their industrial plants were destroyed or captured by the advancing Nazi troops or in the process of evacuation east—battlefield losses of specific equipment approached or even exceeded the rate at which Soviet domestic production could replace them during this crucial period. Under these circumstances even small quantities of aid took on far greater significance.

    Once again raw figures do not tell the whole story. Although British shipments amounted to only a few percent of Soviet domestic production of machine tools, the Soviet Union could request specific items which it may not have been able to produce for itself. Additionally, many of the British tools arrived in early 1942, when Soviet tool production was still very low, resulting in a disproportionate impact. The handing over of forty imported machine tools to Aviation Factory No. 150 in July 1942, for example, was the critical factor in enabling the factory to reach projected capacity within two months.”

    https://www.historynet.com/did-r

  14. I was merely pointing out that being commies does not mean they made bad stuff, when it mattered. If their stuff was bad because of it coming from socialist non-market origins, what were we so worried about while we were all on the North German plain in case they came? Soviet kit was good enough. If it comes to respirators, good enough will be good enough in an emergency. If Dyson or Gtech can make them for vacuum cleaner prices, why not? The enemy is bureaucracy, and that works the same in the NHS, the CDC/FDA and anywhere else. The good enough stuff threatens the ‘way we always do things’. It threatens the relationship between regulators and lobbyists.

    If we have rules that stop us doing what is sensible in a crisis we ought to be evaluating why we need those rules at all.

  15. “the p 51 mustang”: wasn’t that the one that proved piss poor until the British insisted in having a Merlin engine installed?

  16. As mentioned above, my wife spent decades in ICU and trained staff on ventilator and pump use, can’t just chuck any nurse you have into a ward and expect them to use them.

  17. As I posted yesterday:

    Britain rejects buying with EU but orders 10,000 British Dyson ventilators to tackle health crisis – subject to regulatory approval

    “Production of British Dyson’s new CoVent ventilator could start early next month but the government made clear the order was dependent on it passing safety and regulatory tests”

    Must go through safety etc approval. Why? If patient will die with no ventilator, nothing to lose by using unapproved emergency response new ventilator.

    Continue with this and Dyson etc will conclude: no point wasting money to help if help ‘subject to lengthy regulatory approval” by which time crisis over

  18. @dearieme

    Yes

    @BniC

    Bollocks to “must be well trained, certified etc” Ventilator use is not complicated

    Patient: I can’t breathe, I’m going to die, use ventilator now
    Orderly: I’m not trained
    Patient: F*cking try it, I’m dying

  19. Just get Dyson and G-tech to make what they’ve promised. They are likely to be more competent at reliable machinery manufacture than the usual suppliers anyway.
    Approval can follow, as it’s so f****** urgent to save our NHS.
    Cost -I’m sure our holier than thou medical unions will be willing for their members to stump up for this from their vast taxpayer funded pension funds, after all they will still have more than 80% left even if they bought every house in the country a ventilator.

  20. @Nessimmersion

    Agree

    Dyson develops ventilator for COVID-19 patients in 10 days: but must now be tested, comply, be approved….
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLsyUg-ldSk

    – March 2020 Private hospitals buy Dyson and G-Tech Ventilators
    – March 2022 Dyson and G-Tech Ventilators approved for use by NHS

    Yes STEM will save us – not ‘feminist studies’ and state regulators. Shut down civil service reg enforcers and let market solve CV-19

    BoJo said he would stop regs then nothing. Trump doing it

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