The fact is that anyone over a certain age now realises that the government’s ongoing herd immunity policy, that is already unnecessarily killing tens of thousands of older people, shows that the government really does not care about those it considers elderly. This policy already makes it clear that those of about retirement age and above are now very obviously considered expendable. And this is unsurprising. Given that neoliberal politics in the UK long ago gave up worrying about how a government might provide for those enjoying ever longer lives I suspect that neoliberal politicians’ delight that this problem is apparently being solved for them knows no limits: they will only see economic gain in this. They will simply be imagining the financial returns as all those pensions go unpaid.

Isn’t that a weird statement? Given that these last few decades of neoliberalism have been the first time since Ur of the Chaldees that poverty among pensioners has been lower than that among the general population? These few decade s when – ending with that triple lock – we’ve deliberately and with aforethought, directed more economic resources to pensioners than anyone ever has done before?

48 thoughts on “Erm, yeah”

  1. Bloke in North Dorset

    The elderly are more likely to vote and vote Tory. Why would they be trying to kill off their own supporters?

    The herd needs to be immune to protect the vulnerable, how you get there is the decision. Tanking the economy while we wait for a vaccine that is going to take at best another year and may never happen is now making even the dimmest politicians at least take note and start asking estimons.

    The penny will probably drop with Spud once opinion polls change

  2. Scene: A darkly lit basement room, only accessible from a secret elevator hidden in the floor of the cabinet office in Number 10. Dom Cummings is at the top of the table, stroking a white cat

    Matt Hancock (as Number 3): Let me reveal our plan for eternal Conservative government, number 1
    Dom Cummings, evil mastermind (as Number 1): proceed, number 3
    Hancock: We will unleash the killer virus on the world. Our scientists have been secretly designing it for some time and perfected it. We will wipe out a large section of the population.
    Cummings: Excellent work number 3. Which sections does it mostly kill off? The Islington beardie vegans, or the Scottish nationalists
    Hancock: Um, well, neither, number 1
    Cummings: raises an eye
    Hancock: (nervously) the virus kills off lots of old people
    Cummings: who votes for us in large numbers, number 3?
    Hancock: Ummm

    Cummings pushes a button and Hancock’s chair sinks into a tank of sharks

  3. The elderly are more likely to vote and vote Tory. Why would they be trying to kill off their own supporters?

    Yes, have seen this from the particularly dim part of Twitter. Conspiracy theories need at least to “get past first base”, I.e. not be obviously refutable by pointing out it goes against the obvious interests of the evil conspiracy members.

    As for the number of people who see “herd immunity” as some policy which can be avoided, and not as the actual end state WE NEED TO REACH otherwise those vulnerable to this disease WILL catch it and likely die: these people are, perhaps, one step up from the anti-vaxxers. At least those people understand their own position.

  4. Herd immunity policy, as opposed to what? If we had managed to keep the virus out, or at least contain it, there might have been some kind of alternative but we didn’t. In any case, without widespread immunity to the bug, a handful of infected persons would send us straight back to square one. It seems to me that it is inevitable that we have to just let the virus run its course and hope for the best. I speak as a 61 year old diabetic, if the effing bug gets me I at least want die while actually living.

  5. So, Wuhan virus kills mostly the old. Has anybody stopped to notice that, in fact, it’s mostly the old that die, period? Your chance of dying in the next year starts increasing exponentially from about 60 – just like the chances of dying from CCP virus. It would be interesting to compare actuarial tables for death from all causes with the stats for deaths from Winnie the Flu… I bet the differences are statistically insignificant.

  6. Neo Liberalism has only enriched the old in the context of swollen aged cohorts voting resources from the useful to the numerous ( ie themselves)
    Think for example, what would happen if a group were marooned, (a ship carrying blue paint collided with a ship carrying purple paint), …on a desert island.
    Lets say that of the 10 there were 2 fit bold chaps like myself,a mother and child, and 5 ancient wankers. The fit useful ones would immediately set about diving for fish catching pigs and building fires, happy to share with the mother
    The 5 old wankers would start dribbling on about democracy and whatever anyone brought back, would vote it straight into their toothless foul smelling gobs.
    That is essentially what Brexit is and you can be damn sure if this nasty government thought the old were getting killed off in serious numbers they would happily let the rest of us starve to death.

  7. The left has been arguing for several years that the Tories neglect the young in favour of the elderly. I’d be prepared to bet that only a year or so ago, Spud and the morons on twatter were arguing the same.

    The UK does not have an ongoing herd immunity policy.

    neoliberal politics in the UK long ago gave up worrying about how a government might provide for those enjoying ever longer lives

    At least that bit is correct. It is not the business of government to provide for one’s declining years. Of course he means ‘government’ in the sense of ‘magical benefactor which does everything for everyone for free’.

  8. I thought this stupid cunt would tell us that the Conservative party was old and only interested in old people and Brexit was caused by old people who should die anyway. Now the government is killing off olf folk. it’s natural supporters and Brexit enthusiasts?

    These last few months have shown that the left doesn’t give a fuck about anything other than power and any argument made is dedicated to that aim.

  9. Dennis, Non-Grinch

    Newmania –

    Nothing shows your endless concern for the welfare of the populace more than spewing endless invective in the general direction of anyone who you perceive as having an opinion on anything that differs from your own.

  10. There are three (not mutually exclusive) ways out of this pandemic:
    1. Herd immunity
    2. A vaccine
    3. A cure – ie finding an existing ‘safe’ drug that cures the symptoms.

    My money is on a combination of 1 and 3. The chances of finding a cure within the next couple of months is probably quite high. Meanwhile, lockdown needs easing and the virus needs to spread through the younger parts of the population…

  11. Dennis, Bullshit Detector

    What makes Spud’s sudden concern for pensioners more puzzling than it is? The fact that he forever attempting to impoverish them by forcing pension funds to be used (or more accurately, squandered) on any one of a number of his batty schemes.

  12. Bloke in North Dorset

    So, Wuhan virus kills mostly the old. Has anybody stopped to notice that, in fact, it’s mostly the old that die, period? Your chance of dying in the next year starts increasing exponentially from about 60 – just like the chances of dying from CCP virus. It would be interesting to compare actuarial tables for death from all causes with the stats for deaths from Winnie the Flu… I bet the differences are statistically insignificant.

    A few weeks ago David Spiegelhalter, on either his podcast of More of Less, reckoned that catching the virus increased your chance of dying by 15x whatever it was for that that year. As more data’s come in and the CFR looks to be lower than was thought at that time, if that numbers gone anywhere its gone down.

  13. Newmania @ 2.16: “2 fit, bold chaps like myself” – to quote Tom Farrell (Gimme, Gimme, Gimme). “I don’t know what it is (Linda) that you see when you look in the mirror, but I assure you, it is NOTHING like what the rest of the world sees”.

  14. Sorry Newmonia, but what are “fish catching pigs”? Some new Chinese delicacy? And why would anyone, young or old, go diving for them?
    Just think, you could have a starter and a main on the same plate.

  15. Newms,
    Your rabid dribblings do more to show us what sort of person you are than make any useful point than might actually convince any of us of your rightness.

    Your disdain and dismissal of those older than you shines through so clearly. Did you ever consider that maybe those older folks might have something to offer? Might have knowledge you don’t?
    And, possibly, just possibly, it might be worth trading some of your oh, so heroically, earned food for the benefit of their experience.

    Alternatively, you could help them because, you know, it’s the moral and decent thing to do.

  16. Also, I’m being charitable and assuming that you just slipped and forgot to say you would share with the child as well as the mother.

  17. If anyone would like to respond in a aghast but at the same time reasonable deconstruction of spud’s rabid incoherent ramblings on another forum, I see the paragraph quoted above by Tim has been added to Spud’s latest opinion piece on AccountingWeb

  18. @ Newmania
    the latest estimate I can find is that 18.48% of the UK population is over 65. Just how are they outvoting the other 81.52%?
    On your imaginary island it would be the old guys who would catch the fish as they are the only ones who would know how to do it.

  19. “Think for example, what would happen if a group were marooned …on a desert island.”

    You’re in a group of 10?

    Within a week, the other 9 would throw you off a cliff.

  20. @Newmania
    I’m 61, I have most of my teeth, I’m extremely fit and have a black belt in karate. I would enjoy watching you eat a whole pig all to yourself.

  21. Herd immunity is a result, not a policy.

    The policy is lockdown. Which DELAYS herd immunity.

    Every time you think Murphy couldn’t get stupider . . . .

  22. Is it Spudhead doing the trolling?

    The fact is that anyone over a certain age now realises that the government’s ongoing herd immunity policy, that is already unnecessarily killing tens of thousands of older people

    This contains 2 obvious errors. The scientists didn’t initially want lockdown but the politicians imposed it once they realised the risks. And where are the thousands of extra deaths? As for Newmy, he is obviously eating bats

  23. Newmania:

    That sounds like a great social experiment. My guess is that the old guys (5? 6?) would ensure that the mother and child got preferential treatment, and that the other productive male was kept busy hunting and fishing. Then they’d hold you down and bum you.

  24. Ah Neumonia… Whatever makes you think you’d even get to the island?

    Thradithion requires at least a couple of days on that very cramped life boat with at least one Crisis to be resolved.. During which your Brown Shirt would have become pretty apparent already.. And those “toothless, smelly old gobs” have a tendency to know how to deal with Brown Shirts…

  25. another oblivious u turn by the worlds most stupidest person. In many blog posts he’s ranted about pensioners and how they are basically freeloading off the rest of the population – i remember one post where a contributor disagreed with one of his attacks so he replied that he obviously wanted to keep the young poor whilst enjoying going on cruises. But now he ignores his previous rantings – he’s obviously turning into Joe biden of Ely. Basically he’s a grade A cunt.

  26. government’s ongoing herd immunity policy, that is already unnecessarily killing tens of thousands of older people

    Hasn’t the fool noticed herd immunity policy ended four weeks ago? Now, businesses closed and most in house arrest to protect “the old”?

    Meanwhile Sweden’s herd immunity policy working well

    @BoM4

    Cummings pushes a button and Hancock’s chair sinks into a tank of sharks

    I do hope so

    @Theo

    Cure won’t be found until never-Trump & BiGs put in a sealed cellar

    More dispicable behaviour
    – “The Milton Keynes couple’s model showed St George, a Cappodician Greek officer in the Roman army, carrying a sign saying “The NHS will slay Covid-19”.

    But on the morning of the English national day, they found that someone had sprayed the word “NAZI” on their path with an arrow pointing at their house in response to the display — and some fifty bags of dog dirt had been thrown over the wall into their garden”
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/04/26/home-of-couple-celebrating-st-georges-day-defaced-with-dog-dirt-and-nazi-graffiti/

  27. Kindergarten Gruppenführer Hancock and the Lemmings

    Keep clapping and trust in the scientists /sarc

    Pass-the-buck virus paralyses ministers
    “…Professor Neil Ferguson, whose report panicked the Government into introducing these draconian lockdown measures, has not been held to account for his team’s pessimistic and wildly incorrect forecasting record.

    These forecasts for the UK’s 2001 foot-and-mouth outbreak led to the unnecessary deaths of millions of animals

    He has not been held to account for that, or for his highly-exaggerated but influential estimate that 65,000 people in the UK could die of swine flu (457 did die). In 2005, he suggested that 200million people worldwide could die from bird flu, yet the estimated global death toll was below 500

    Ministers, including the Prime Minister, worried about a second wave, seem more in awe of forecasters with worst-case scenarios that are usually wrong, and of the hostile and hysterical media that reports them, than of their own accountability. They are much happier to break their word and recklessly risk the long-term welfare of the whole nation”

    Boris peers over sofa then hides again

  28. If they are saying there’s no garuntee of immunity from catching it then surely that means the chance of an effective vaccine is pretty slim so we all may as well go back to normal and this will be just one more thing like seasonal flu that we take for granted

  29. @Newmania

    I must say of all the trolls I’ve seen on various blogs, your projecting is perhaps the most pitiful.

    Are you an only child by any chance? And what was it mummy and daddy wouldn’t indulge their little Bonaparte?

  30. @Mark

    His trolling is also fairly long lived.

    Most trolls get bored and move on after a little while. Newms is part of the furniture here now.

  31. “Avoiding herd immunity” is like saying you can avoid hitting the ground if you jump out of an aeroplane.

    Short of turning the country into an isolated fortress in JANUARY, we were never going to stop this thing spreading, especially with the 50% asymptomatic spreading we have (look back on that ‘temperature testing’ of people at airports and smile). Consider social distancing measures as a ‘parachute’, to continue to the analogy – slows you down but doesn’t stop you reaching the ground.

    We will get herd immunity, or as close as is possible given how long-term immune recovered people are, when either a vaccine is developed, tested and rolled out (at least a year) or when enough of the population have caught it and recovered. Given the rate of ‘silent” infections this is going to win the race with a vaccine easily, unless we lock the country down for a year, which will bring economic collapse and the revolution the Left have been desperate for.

  32. Pcar–there is always hope. Even Arnald got fed up in the end.

    Stonygroud–don’t want to pry intro your personal life but can I ask what style of karate you do?

  33. “Short of turning the country into an isolated fortress in JANUARY, we were never going to stop this thing spreading, especially with the 50% asymptomatic spreading we have (look back on that ‘temperature testing’ of people at airports and smile). Consider social distancing measures as a ‘parachute’, to continue to the analogy – slows you down but doesn’t stop you reaching the ground.”

    I notice that the BBC were approvingly reporting that New Zealand had ‘eliminated’ CV19 via its extreme lockdown methods. One wonders what exactly they think is going to happen when they release the restrictions and all those uninfected Kiwis get exposed to CV from somewhere else……..

  34. Wado Ryu style Mr. Ecks. It has been a while so I might be a bit rusty but I still keep myself in good shape.

  35. Most trolls get bored and move on after a little while. Newms is part of the furniture here now.

    If Violet Elizabeth Newmania is now part of the furniture, he must be the dumb waiter over there in the corner.

  36. Thanks Stonyground. Did some Shotokan myself in my youth. While it has some great real world fighters–Terry O’Neil worked as a Liverpool doorman for 40 years and knocked out hundreds of Scouse thugs using classic head high kicks –for ordinary mortals it is a bit too sport focused. Karate should be taught as a deadly and practical martial art. Goju–esp Okinawan Goju is closer to this –but still not ideal.

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