There really are idiots out there

After all, which consumers need free or nearly free oil subsidized?

Erm, all of them would like it?

Sadly, this is being said by someone who matters:

United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres

19 thoughts on “There really are idiots out there”

  1. Time the UN was gone. We should leave all its tentacles and then put our seat on the Security Council up for auction and then rig it so Taiwan or Israel got the seat. Or both jointly.

  2. Quote: “What is the relative risk in paying to turn off and restart shale production as prices fluctuate, versus investing in a solar panel or wind turbine that works every day?”/endquote

    Ask yourself that question on a dark, windless night…..

  3. Not taxing the shite out of hydrocarbons is a “subsidy”, but forcing little old ladies into fuel poverty to pay for bat-chomping eco-crucifixes is an “investment”.

    I may be optimistic here, but I reckon one of the unexpected outcomes of Chinese Flu could be the death of Big Green. How’re we supposed to afford banning internal combustion engines now?

  4. ‘How financially sustainable is an industry if it is distorted by $5 trillion in annual subsidies?’

    Petitio principii fallacy. ‘$5 trillion in annual subsidies’ is not in evidence.

    ‘Mark Lewis, global head of sustainability research at BNP Paribas Asset Management’

    A big title instead of big pay, I presume.

  5. Dennis, Offender of Krauts, Frogs and other Wogs

    Does Guterres matter? Only if you let him. Otherwise, he’s just a wog with an opinion.

  6. Whenever I’ve looked into these $x trillion subsidies for fossil fuels, I’ve soon reached calculations such as “the VAT rate on UK domestic gas is 5%, a 15% subsidy against the standard rate” and stopped looking any further.

  7. It’s actually worse than that in this calculation.

    “Pollution should be taxed.” Hmm, well, OK. “Any level of taxation less than we think pollution should be taxed is a subsidy”.


    And then also – “Consumption should be taxed because government needs revenue,” Well, OK. “Any level of consumption tax less than we think government should get is a subsidy”.

  8. The term subsidy gets thrown around as though it’s the feds handing over gobs of cash. If you actually ask what subsidies, the answers tend to be things like immediate or rapid expensing of equipment and exploration costs. Sometimes the existence of the strategic oil reserves is said to be a subsidy. You might even hear that the heating oil subsidies given low income people in the NE of the US (where they have real winters) is a subsidy to the oil industry, and it sort of is – an indirect one. Finally, there’s the whole issue of whether they should be taxed more because of pollution, or should it be the users of oil creating the pollution that should be taxed?

    What does seem to be odd is this notion that very low prices will finally mean the end of the oil industry and we’ll all switch to green. It’s tossed a monkey wrench into the works of those firms extracting hard to get at oil, but those producers extracting easy to get oil will continue on, and if they raise prices it’ll bring the others back online. We may have cheap oil for quite a while. So we’ll use less????

  9. TD – got my kerosene tank topped up last week. Usually costs about about £350 for 700 litres, latest bill was £150. Quick – let’s install solar panels!

    M’Lud – Yeah, it won’t die easily or quickly, but ecobation needs prosperity the same way fleas need dogs. Culturally, it’s an expression of artificial anxiety created by bored wealthy people who don’t have real things to worry about.

    I’m wondering if this might also kill undying vampire projects like HS2. Why did we want to cram large numbers of people into trains between London and Brum again?

  10. Wasn’t this the sort of nonsense the Fat Tuber was coming up with a few years ago, the fact that oil isn’t taxed at 100% means it is subsidised or something. Then again, he later notoriously alleged that the tax gap included what people paid in income tax and whatever rate a government might hypothetically tax them at.

    So, a complete load of bollocks. File in the same category as “spending cuts” when a government department gets only a 5% rise in the budget instead of the 7% one predicted three years previously.

  11. There’s already rumblings that economic recovery should be ‘intertwined with green economic policies’
    Looks like while the protesters have had to stop the QUANGO level lot have just been biding their time and will seek to make the most they can from the crisis as we emerge

  12. Many of the big oil producing countries sell at a lower price to the domestic market, which is effectively a subsidy. The list of countries which subsidise fossil fuels is a veritable Who’s Who of shitholes: Venezuela, Iran, Uzbekistan, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Turkmenistan, etc. If any green do-gooders in the west suggest that we subsidise fossil fuels, they’re misinformed to the point of brainwashing.

  13. Steve,

    “I may be optimistic here, but I reckon one of the unexpected outcomes of Chinese Flu could be the death of Big Green. How’re we supposed to afford banning internal combustion engines now?”

    I think you’re being optimistic. Lots of people love ecobollocks because of all the signalling they get to do. Women absolutely love signalling their compassion for the earth by shoppping with hessian bags, while the next week, they’re flying off to the Dead Sea. Tell some graduate eco MILF that she’s got to take a train to Clacton for her holiday and you’ll soon see a backlash. They’ll wave their little Labour flag and walk into the polling booth and vote for the most gammony politician available that also want to murder all the polar bears for fun.

    Most of these targets are bullshit signalling anyway. Unless a politician sets a target in the next 10 years, it’s meaningless. They won’t be there to answer why it wasn’t achieved. Maybe we’ll ban petrol cars in 2035, but it’ll only happen if there’s the cars that can do the job. No politician is going to fuck up the lives of millions of families if electric cars are still really expensive and have limited range.

  14. A lot of the eco bollocks lovers are deadly serious though about keeping the riff raff off the planes and out of foreign places. Clacton is what they envision for most people. But not them. They have loftier thoughts when jetting about and hence should be permitted to continue to do so.

  15. BoM4 “No politician is going to fuck up the lives of millions of families if electric cars are still really expensive and have limited range.”

    But,but… look what the politicians have just done for fear of WuFlu

  16. @Tim Worstall April 25, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    Para 2

    Exactly what Left, BBC etc wibbled until the “1997-2010 Silent Years” – any less than we want increase in spending on XYZ is a CUT

    @Steve April 25, 2020 at 2:56 pm

    Buy a few more oil tanks. Find a shut sold being demolished Petrol Station and buy an underground tank(s)

    Ineos etc should be doing same

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