Man speaks common sense

Courtney Lawes, the Northampton and England lock, faced a backlash on Tuesday after suggesting it was important to be “financially secure and preferably married” before having children in order to reduce the levels of child poverty in the UK.

Of course, the populace is now shouting at him for having done so.

Hmm, actually, most of the populace would probably cheer, it’s the commentariat having the sours at him.

35 thoughts on “Man speaks common sense”

  1. Well yes, obviously, it is all about taking responsibility for your own life and for your dependents. It is so much easier though to be totally irresponsible and then blame all of your problems on austerity caused by evil Tories.

  2. Bloke in North Dorset

    As IanB would probably observe, the left really don’t like it when their pets go wandering off the reservation.

  3. It was brave of him to highlight the value of fathers within the black community, not least because he knew it would attract flak. Alas the days of single-mother shame are long behind us. I say shame as it is compounded by the perception of an absence of male role models outside the family (schools being primarily a female environment, to say nothing of the dearth of male scout/youth leaders). There must be a reason (and perhaps it’s based on their growing up in fatherless households) that nearly 50 per cent of UK black men marry white girls.

  4. Clearly he’s a Nazi who must be silenced!

    The assault by the left on the married, heterosexual family over the the last 50 years has had it’s most devastating effect on the poorest whites and black people at all socioeconomic levels both here and in the US. The very people who need it most.

  5. Married, yes. Financially secure? That’s a very subjective term. One man’s financial security is another’s precarious breadline. Is a graduate with £50k debt but a £30k salary more financially secure than a non-graduate with £0 debt and a £20k salary?

  6. The Meissen Bison

    His contention is so self-evidently true that a backlash was inevitable. The situation is that what shouldn’t need saying has now become unsayable.

  7. @ Johnathan…

    Writer Robert Tombs was making the point earlier that more than 35% of British-Caribbean men are now in the top two social classes (out of seven) up from just 11% in the 1990s. Black children slightly outperform whites in the Government’s Progress 8 school measures, and that young black people are more likely to go to university than whites, 41% to 31%. There is, however, a substantial minority of the black population stuck to the bottom of British society, (14% of black people live in households with persistent low income compared with 8% of whites) – and I guess this is where most of the trouble emanates.

  8. @Andrew M…

    It used to take about three years to feel confident your relationship had a long term future and that your job/career was reasonably stable.

  9. I continue to hope that just one person has the cojones to publicly stand by a perfectly reasonable, admirable in fact, statement and not start apologising. Come on Courtney – be the first.

  10. The 60s proverbially, happened in the 70s, for everyone but Mick Jagger and a few posh birds. It was only in the 70s that children,”out of wedlock” became acceptable amongst the working classes. Social change was afoot, but the pill clearly changed the fundamentals.
    This change collided with the fast growing ability of the State to fund welfare and, (incidentally ) mass immigration.
    Welfare, designed as a safety net for men between employment, became a scheme for the new class of single women with children. The country has never accepted it.
    Courtney Lawes, warrior, legend, England hero and key player in my all time favourite try of the modern era, is expressing a ubiquitously held view .Not only is it common sense to say so, but lets not forget how cruel the situation is for those decent people who cannot afford the children they desperately want.
    As so often the problem is easy to see, the answer……. not so much.

    Enjoy !!!! Its England Who are making the Statement !!! ASHTON !!!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJMvZyawSY

  11. It is a shame that he’s deleted the ‘offending’ tweet already, probably under considerable pressure from his agent and club, as well as the twitter mob.

    Lawes has a history of tweeting highly sensible comments. He’s clearly got sound ideas and has no truck with black victimhood.

    The Telegraph really is a fucking disgrace these days.

  12. My wife quotes a statistic (can’t remember the details) along the lines that your chances of poverty are vastly reduced if you do these things in this order
    1. Study/train
    2. Start career
    3. Marry
    4. Have kids.
    Fiddle with that order and your chances of poverty increase quite a bit.

    I’d imagine this rule of life applies regardless of skin colour.

  13. @Newmania
    I am not sure that you are right, that the country has not accepted. Sadly I know lots of people who worship single mums, hopefully my friends are in the minority but I am not sure. A few years ago a single mum on benefits told me that she would never live in a flat like mine (I was earning not that bad money). I know lots of people who think that state of affairs is ok.

    @MC
    The Telegraph really is a fucking disgrace these days.
    Surely every edition is just a very long suicide note.

  14. So Much For Subtlety

    Newmania June 17, 2020 at 8:20 am – “Not only is it common sense to say so, but lets not forget how cruel the situation is for those decent people who cannot afford the children they desperately want.”

    Because they are too loaded down with taxes to pay for the bastard spawn of sluts? I sympathise.

    The Dutch used to give money to support single mothers. But not to the single mother. It went to the nearest responsible adult. Usually the grandmother. They got rid of that and the underclass exploded.

    They should bring that back

  15. “My wife quotes a statistic…”

    Yah, but post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    People should be having their kids at 15-19. Still leaves plenty of time for women to get an education only slightly later than they do now and then have a career, as the kids grow up, to which that education will be less out of date.

    I know, you’d have to make some phenomenal changes to society, turn some of that welfare into a redistribution of income from later in peoples’ lives to earlier rather than the current model of subsidising professional single parents, but it’s a shame we have set up society such that almost no one can actually do this.

  16. There was a quote about this which I was trying to find. I had thought it was from Jordan Peterson, but it’s actually from Ben Shapiro:

    “Number 1: You need to finish high-school.

    Number 2: You need to get married before you have babies.

    Number 3: You need to get a job.

    That’s it. You do those things and you will not be permanently poor in the United States of America.

    According to the Brooking’s Institute, 2% of Americans who followed these rules are in poverty, 75% have joined the middle class.”
    Ben Shapiro

  17. @BiG

    I’ve worked in adult education in a former life (indeed mostly sometime teenage mums now ready to get qualified and have a career now the kids are safely at school, which seems a better idea than getting into a profession then quitting after a few years to have kids) and knew someone who was told by her doctor to have kids at fifteen due to a medical condition that would leave her unable to conceive if she left it any longer (wouldn’t surprise me if that doctor’s advice was technically a criminal offence but it worked for her and she went on to a very well-paid career in the City – relationship with the kid’s dad perhaps inevitably broke down given the pressures at a young age but this wasn’t a single parent living in poverty).

    Admittedly this is all anecdotal and many teenage mums don’t go on to higher education and/or a high-end career, though it’s hard to distinguish chicken from egg here since I am sure the stats would look better if more middle-class educated young women opted for kids before uni rather than leave it to people at the bottom of the social pile. But then many women who have been leaving the whole kids thing til their thirties or even early forties don’t find life works out quite how they wanted it either, given the mixture of declining fertility and a depleting pool of single men. This is also anecdotal but based on a lot of women’s moans to me…

  18. It’s much older than Ben Shapiro. I’m sure it’s in some PJ O’Rourke from the 90s and he’s quoting someone earlier. Not Pat Moynihan and probably not of quite that vintage but not far off it.

    Graduate high school
    Get a minimum wage job, keep it for a year at least.
    Get and stay married.

  19. Staying married is very important. I know a number of men in their late fifties, early sixties who were planning retirement until they got divorced, often without seeing it coming. Suddenly retirement plans were put on indefinite hold.

  20. BiG,

    “People should be having their kids at 15-19. Still leaves plenty of time for women to get an education only slightly later than they do now and then have a career, as the kids grow up, to which that education will be less out of date.

    I know, you’d have to make some phenomenal changes to society, turn some of that welfare into a redistribution of income from later in peoples’ lives to earlier rather than the current model of subsidising professional single parents, but it’s a shame we have set up society such that almost no one can actually do this.”

    Most women don’t even have “careers”. They have jobs. At best they move from being on the call centre to being a team leader on the call centre. Most of their education is a waste of time and money, doing degrees in psychology, mostly as Mrs degrees to find a future husband.

    Not all. There’s definitely career women out there and they should have that choice, but most don’t.

    And yes, it would make far more sense to do things this way around. Have your kids in late teens/early 20s. Raise them and go back to work when they’re in secondary school at 35. When you’re 40, go and do the travelling that kids do now in their 20s.

  21. BiG,

    If you want one simple answer to this problem: allow kids to leave school at 13 and go and do some form of technical education until they are 16. Stuff they actually want to do. Get them applying those skills at 16 as chefs, welders, even programming. By the time they’re 21 they’ll have a reasonable income and can rent or get a mortgage, pump a baby into some teenager.

    The value of educating most kids falls off a cliff after that age. I remember around 19-20 bumping into classmates and the jobs they were doing could have been done by someone who left school at 13.

    Also, reform the housing market.

  22. Married, yes. Financially secure? That’s a very subjective term.

    Especially when the government comes along one and just completely fooks the economy, leaving previously solid firms teetering on the precipice and causing numerous redundancies.

  23. @ DocBud… as I tell a number of my friends: “The only difference between you and me is that I didn’t get divorced.” I’ve mates on number four, wondering why they’re still broke, living in rented accommodation.

    @BiG… Ditto above: have friends who are still working into their 70s, thanks to the necessity to fund adult children and their grandchildren.

    @BonM4… A man offering a woman the opportunity of her own home (reform of housing market) is a major plus.

  24. @ Newmaniac
    It was only in the 70s that children,”out of wedlock” became acceptable amongst the working classes.
    Not so, dig around in family histories and you wil find that the number of out-of-wedlock births was surprisingly high. In my own family, on both sides and solidly working class, there are several instances of illegitimate first-born back 200 years and more.
    WW2 was, of course, a time of prolific out-of-wedlock births but it was the middle class that was embarrassed, the working class just got on with life.

  25. I have just retired leaving behind a colleague who is the same age as me but is on his second wife. He said that is the reason that he can’t retire. He wasn’t happy in the job and I’m wondering if, after having two months off, he might say screw it and retire anyway. There are always ways of getting by after all.

  26. asiaseen: yebbut, back then it was “make sure she’s fertile before marrying her”. Nowadays it’s “breed, kick out the sperm donor, live on the state”.

    It makes you wonder if all that propaganda telling us unreconstructed males that women actually did indeed enjoy sex was actually all lies, as the modern perception really does seem to be back to “put up with it just long enough to get a baby”.

  27. Brilliant by BoM4
    Child benefit is just a transfer from people who were children to people who have children. Abolish it for new entrants. Abolish the school leaving age. And abolish the minimum wage ( or at least devolve it to LAs ).

  28. @DocBud: “Suddenly retirement plans were put on indefinite hold.”

    Not so for the ex-wives, I’d bet.

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