Interesting

Long before becoming pregnant, Kori Doty knew exactly how they were going to raise their child.

When Doty was born in the picturesque seaside city of Victoria, British Columbia, in the 1980s, a doctor assigned them as female, but the label didn’t fit. “When I was born, a guess was made [about my gender] because nobody knew better than to do that. And that guess was incorrect,” says Doty, who now identifies as non-binary trans – meaning they are neither a man nor a woman, and that their identity does not correspond with their birth sex. “It caused some amount of complication, upset and harm in my life.”

So when Doty gave birth in November 2016, they were determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Given that giving birth bit I think we can make a guess as to the sex of this individual. Their gender is whatever they wish of course.

40 thoughts on “Interesting”

  1. A doctor didn’t *assign* her as female, the doctor (or whoever) *noted* that she was female. No guess was made, only direct observation of observable factual…. facts.

    As, as Tim points out, by giving birth she has confirmed that she is female.

  2. Another child fucked over by “progressives” then. Give it 20 years and Sea will be complaining that it’s parents didn’t give them the support they needed to understand their gender whilst growing up. Then having either their tits or cock chopped off.

  3. non-binary trans – meaning they are neither a man nor a woman, and that their identity does not correspond with their birth sex

    What the purple sprouting fuck is that meant to mean? If it is ‘neither a man nor a woman’ then how can it be ‘trans’ anything? I suppose it is too much to ask for consistency from the obviously deranged.

    If Dotty Doty wishes to maintain the delusion that she has a gender, fair enough. However if you are going to persist with that wibble, why not be creative? Non-binary trans is rather dull. What about Fluffypants Starbust or Meandering Jentacular Bucketry or Hotblack Desiato?

  4. Parents raising ‘theybies’ say it liberates children from gender roles and gives them the freedom to choose their own label

    Huh, I wonder who is promoting this satanic child abuse to gullible white liberals…

    Supported by Open Society Foundations

    WHO WE ARE
    The Open Society Foundations, founded by George Soros

    To quote Keanu, “Whoa!”

  5. Can’t help but notice the following label on the article:

    “This content is supported in part through philanthropic funding to theguardian.org from the Open Society Foundations, which works to build vibrant and inclusive democracies whose governments are accountable to their citizens. All content is editorially independent and overseen by Guardian editors.”

    Whether you agree with trends in transgenderism or not, it’s interesting that a topic that affects a small proportion of people has become such a major talking point in the mainstream media, academia and politics, even if it hasn’t become typical dinner table discussion fodder among normal folk. Part of that’s the fault of some right-wingers using trans people as a kind of political or theological “how corrupt liberal society has become” punching bag (more US than UK) and part of it is very media-savvy campaigning and the willingness of media and academic figures to get behind the narrative rather than treating it as one narrative among many. But the way it’s blown up so fast shows you that a considerable amount of political power is actively backing the movement.

  6. The Meissen Bison

    When Doty was born […] a doctor assigned them as female

    Trans madness is not made less mad by trans pronouns. How does it help to assign (to use their word)a plural pronoun to a single individual?

    Progressives are caught in an endless Red Queen’s race.

  7. MBE – But the way it’s blown up so fast shows you that a considerable amount of political power is actively backing the movement.

    Related: the most disturbing thing about the peaceful rioting, looting and murders being perpetrated in the US isn’t the rioting, looting and murders. The US has experienced race riots and Marxist violence before.

    It’s that, this time, nearly every single multi-billion dollar global corporation simultaneously decided to publicly support it.

  8. Elsewhere in The Guardian:

    ‘I was expected to have kids’: five people who defied cultural norms
    Being child-free by choice – a photo essay

    Hey, anybody ever seen THEY LIVE?

  9. It’s that, this time, nearly every single multi-billion dollar global corporation simultaneously decided to publicly support it

    I wonder why though?

    So they might be eaten last?
    Trump Derangement Syndrome?
    Or do they reckon that a populous so cowed and spiritless that it will bleat whatever obvious untruths it is told is the ideal consumer base?

    Even in the UK, a nominally conservative paper, The Telegraph, puts a positive spin on the BLM riots and related posturing, while allowing no comments. It gives a whole column to a chap who is turning himself into a grotesque parody of a woman, again with no comments allowed. The editors know what their readers think about these topics, as people increasingly voice their anger BTL on unrelated stories.

    Are they so utterly contemptuous of their readers? Or do they think either the readership or its minds will change?

    (I cancelled my sub but they’re still allowing me free access BTW)

  10. MBE: ’ Part of that’s the fault of some right-wingers using trans people as a kind of political or theological “how corrupt liberal society has become” punching bag (more US than UK)…’

    I don’t think that not wanting your young female child to have to share a toilet with a hairy bollock owner in a dress, or be beaten to a podium place in female sport by a jock in a frock is so described, is it?

  11. MC – Trump is part of the reason, there’s a full court press to get him out of office because he’s a threat to their unlimited cheap labour and unfettered access to global markets.

    But they wanted these things before Trump. I don’t think it’s just about money either. As we found out with Brexit, the ruling class (for want of a better term) is extremely hostile to the middle and working classes, beyond the wildest imaginings of Wolfie Smith.

    What if the simple reason elite opinion shapers keep screaming about “hate”, and encouraging you to die alone or at least screw up your children’s chances of becoming parents, is because they hate you?

  12. @NDReader – Jesus wept.

    @Julia & MBE – I missed MBE’s assertion above. I would say the tranny madness is an excellent example of the deranged malevolence of the ‘progressive left’. Not sure how saying that puts me at fault. It is certainly worth fighting against.

  13. ‘When Doty was born in the picturesque seaside city of Victoria, British Columbia’

    Victoria isn’t seaside. Guardian journalists are as good at geography as they are at maths.

  14. @MrYan, Considering a lot of children rebel against their parents, it’s just as likely that the kid will grow up to be a right wing extremist just to get back at their parents for all the bad things they did such as ban them for playing with some toy for being naughty.

  15. Long before becoming pregnant, [every parent ever] knew exactly how they were going to raise their child

    No plan survives contact with the enemy.

  16. @ SadButMadLad

    Except that most kids will not have the piss ripped out of them everyday for having “queer” parents and wearing a frock to football practice.

  17. Gamecock, when my brother, who lives in Cobble Hill, took me for a drive along Dallas Road, i’m sure I saw the sea…..

  18. Guessed? In the event that external genitalia are malformed or not yet developed, a ‘guess’ might be made about sex of baby which could be wrong. Since in this case her sex at birth was identified as female, and if it was a guess due to external genitalia not being properly formed, that ‘guess’ clearly was correct as she is a female having been pregnant and given birth to a child.

  19. All of this stuff is happening because Marxist brain-rot has advanced far enuf to spew mass madness.

    EG-Even on here MBE claiming that refusing to swallow Marxist shite is the cause of Marxist shite spreading.

  20. “Victoria isn’t seaside.”

    It’s home to the Canadian Navy’s primary Pacific Ocean naval base. Odgen Point is a deep water port facility located in the southwestern corner of the city, and also the busiest port of call for cruise ships in Canada. Victoria is also one of the best places from which to take a whale watching tour, as there as two pods of killer whales that reside nearby.

    Ergo, I beg to differ. 🙂

  21. I have stepped off a floatplane onto a cableship in Victoria harbour, definitely coastal….

  22. MC said:
    “It’s that, this time, nearly every single multi-billion dollar global corporation simultaneously decided to publicly support it. … I wonder why though?”

    My theory is that the directors are afraid of criticism from their wife’s friends at dinner parties.

  23. @ TMB
    It was explained to me that “they” is a translation of “on” the French genderless pronoun. Why not just use “one”, the alternative translation?
    Perhaps because HM uses it.

  24. Victoria on Vancouver Island is definitely a seaside town, walked my sons dog on the beach last time we visited

  25. In everyday English ‘seaside town’ evokes an impression of something more nuanced than just a town with a shoreline. I would not describe every town that is beside the sea as a seaside town.

  26. ‘Internationally located in southwest British Columbia and northwest Washington State, the Salish Sea includes aquatic areas historically and more commonly known as Puget Sound (to the South), the Strait of Georgia (to the North) and Juan de Fuca Strait (to the West).’

    Chris, you are the only person who has ever heard of it.

  27. @TMB

    How does it help to assign (to use their word)a plural pronoun to a single individual?

    To be fair, “they” has historical precedent for use in the singular (back as far as Wycliffe, Chaucer, Caxton). Then became disapproved of by the more prescriptive grammarians in the 18th and 19th centuries, before making a more politically oriented comeback. But at least my experience was that was initially more likely to be encountered as a briefer alternative for an unspecified gender, as opposed to saying “he or she” or just writing “he” inclusive of she. Now it’s something seen as more trans friendly where “he or she” could be seen as exclusionary. I knew a non-binary person whose preferred pronoun was “it” – singular enough, but I hated saying or hearing it because of how dehumanising it was. And I also feel more linguistically comfortable with “singular they”, particularly if you aren’t too judgemental of its more informal or oral use, than I do with the Spivak pronouns, or some of the more novel variants you can find at https://pronoun.is/all-pronouns which look so obviously “made up”.

    Here are some example sentences using my zme/zmyr pronouns:
    Zme went to the park.

    I went with zmyr.

    Zme brought zmyr frisbee.

    At least I think it was zmyrs.

    Zme threw the frisbee to zmyrself.

  28. Other people around here will know far more about other languages than me, but for international comparison the Swedish use of “hen” – basically stealing a gender-neutral pronoun from Finnsh so the Swedes would have one of their own – is instructive. Hasn’t gone down without controversy there.

    And obviously things are very tricky in languages like French where all kinds of stuff gets gendered, not just pronouns (this Atlantic article on gender-neutral French I think summarises it well). So one way of making things more “inclusive” is writing things like musicien·ne·s to indicate the musicians may be male or female or a mixture of both, rather than following the traditional rule of letting masculine dominate over the feminine. This clearly presents challenges to French-speaking non-binary and trans people (I read several articles suggesting that in Quebec, several preferred to seek treatment in English-speaking parts of the healthcare system because the language is inherently less gendered) and rather than use “on”, which would probably be the closest direct alternative to English “singular they”, non-binary or gender-nonconforming people have created their own alternatives (nicked from Quora but won’t bother linking as I don’t think direct links to that site work, better to just copy a selection of the text into a search engine):

    “iel” is quite often used in the LGBT+ community and is probably the most “standard” replacement. (I have also read “ille” a few times, but it does not seem as popular and it doesn’t work well in spoken language, when it sounds roughly the same as “il”). But random people who don’t know nonbinary people or aren’t interested in gender issues are unlikely to use or even recognize it.

    Edit: I’m now much more interested and better informed about this topic than I was when I originally wrote the above in 2017. The situation has, unfortunately, not changed much. Iel is still the most common NB pronoun, but in the community, al is also gaining traction, as part of a larger grammar system including a neutral gender, proposed by a linguistics researcher … I now use it quite a lot in French, including for myself. Other non-binary pronouns I have seen or heard used by people, although not as often, are ul and ol. I also know several people (mostly genderfluid ones) who use il, elle and iel interchangeably.

    Or even:

    As a non-binary person, I have to admit that it’s way too complicated to speak about yourself in french without using any masculine or feminine word. I didn’t even try to ask anyone in my environment to not do it. So when speaking orally, I mostly talk about myself with the gender opposite to the one people associated me since my birth, and asked people to do the same. When it’s written though, it is more common for us to ask people to use other pronouns and accords. From what I saw, most people use “iel” (a combination between “Elle” and “il”, our two third person pronouns) and add a . between the masculine and the feminine (as someone said, a lot of our feminine words are just an extension of our masculines (like petit -> petite -> petit.e).

    I personally use “æl”, and just put a “æ” at the end of the word (petitæ). Most of the time, people will just be really thankful just because you tried though, so don’t stress yourself over that.

    (The use of “æ”, including in nouns and adjectives, is actually part of the “gender-neutral” system described in the first answer, which also brings such words as “présidenx” for gender-neutral president, “présidentiæl” as the adjective and “présidenz” as plural… for anyone who’s a stickler for traditional grammar and spelling, there are more head-scratchers out there than singular them.)

  29. @Julia

    Well, yes, those examples plus the health and safety issues sticking self-identified women with male sex characteristics and offending patterns into women’s prisons. That’s possibly even harder to resolve than the restroom issue – no equivalent of just bunging a unisex loo into a facility and saying “all bases are covered now, jobs a good’un”. But while it would be daft to put anyone in a women’s prison just because they say that’s where they want to go, post-op men-to-women trans people are undeniably at high risk on the male prison estate. It ought to be possible to have a rational, measured debate about how to manage these issues, women’s sports and so on, without being shouted down for “hate speech” just because you disagree gender self-identification should automatically qualify someone for a particular space or service or competition.

    But it’s an interesting question why so many members of Western “civil society” are so busily tearing pieces out of each other over an issue that affects a fraction of one percent of the population. (I honestly think the vast majority of people don’t care, but it’s got a big chunk of the commentariat, academia and political types wound up and has produced an astonishingly toxic atmosphere.) Perhaps an aspect of the viciousness is the “civil war” whereby traditional alliances have broken down, pitting feminist against feminist, letters-near-the-front LGBT+ activists versus letters-at-the-back. Part of it has to be the way the far left see gender identity issues as a tool to be levered against their own bêtes noires, like The Patriarchy or traditional view of the family. And on the flip side there have been culturally conservative right-wing politicians and talking heads whipping up some really vicious stuff against trans people – and I’m not talking about measured responses to restroom or sports issues – because it’s a wedge issue they can exploit to drive pageviews or voter turnout. Especially now the Supreme Court has settled the gay marriage debate and the chance of a constitutional amendment to overturn it is pretty much zilch, why not energise your base instead with a referendum on whether everyone should have to use restrooms based on their birth sex? That’s just blunt, petty, and does little to solve the supposed underlying problem – the concerned mother’s little daughter just gets to share their public restroom with a testosterone-filled bearded muscle-bound trans guy complete with phalloplasty, on the grounds of what the birth certificate said?

    It’s illiberal, not just in the “annoys progressives so probably good” sense, but contrary to the more classical “live and let live” type of liberalism. Finding ways for people with different backgrounds, values, identities and aspirations to all just rub along okay together and respect each other’s freedoms so long as they don’t impinge upon their own, is actually seriously hard work. Even if the end goal is just a state of tolerance rather than acceptance. Inflammatory trans-bashing doesn’t help one jot with that. But what good is it when the likes of Emma Watson post utterly trite tripe like “Trans people are who they say they are and deserve to live their lives without being constantly questioned or told they aren’t who they say they are… I want my trans followers to know that I and so many other people around the world see you, respect you and love you for who you are.” That’s just lovely and all, and I bet it’s nice for her that she can get rich off JK Rowling’s work without having to feel all tainted by her now un-PC opinions, but there’s zero useful policy prescription in there for the tricky choices, like “by what process do we decide who goes to what jail? What should be the criteria to be allowed to compete in women’s athletics, and should they be the same for women’s cycling, football, rugby, or weightlifting? What entry restrictions should single-sex services like domestic abuse hostels apply?” For all the heat and noise, it’s such practical issues which need resolution. I wonder whether people coming at it from different theoretical or ideological perspectives might actually find talking about concrete, substantive issues led to more agreement than shouting abstract arguments at each other. I suspect even the trans-affirming types who are generally enthusiastic about self-ID would see the problems with sticking a violent rapist, complete with penis, in a women’s prison just because they said that’s where they want to be housed, and even those “transwomen don’t have the lived experience of a woman” types could see why a post-op transwoman might be vulnerable in a male prison. They’d probably disagree about cases in the middle, and I might be wrong and their views are too entrenched to agree on anything, but we do seem to be losing the ability to agree to disagree.

    And all the trans and non-binary people I’ve ever come across have been very reasonable, basically private people who just want to be able to get on with their own lives. I’m excepting twitter warriors etc I have no personal connection with, and I’m not denying such people exist. But even when those I’ve known personally have been somewhat political, they’ve not been revolutionaries trying to overturn the social order for their benefit. Not sure how closely Timmy’s experiences in UKIP involved Nikki Sinclaire but she isn’t an obvious SJW type. There’s a Culture War fight going on that as far as I can see the majority of them, and biologically intersex people who’ve been dragged in too, neither desire nor deserve to take the crap from. They’re just unfortunate enough to be useful bogey(wo)men for one side, a handy political football for another, and the fireworks betwixt fill cheap column inches so it’s convenient for the media too. I can only cross my fingers this kind of show never moves on to any minority group I happen to be a member of.

  30. Being a boring old fascist and cis-whatsername, I reckon that the rules for prisons, bogs and changing-rooms should be – “presence of M & 2V, use the blokes’. Lack of M & 2V, it’s the ladies’ for you.”

    Forget what he/she/it/bazonka was born as, what does it present as now?

  31. Gamecock:
    Dover – Calais = 40km
    Victoria – Port Angeles = 39.6Km.

    Despite us calling it the English Channel, Dover is definitely ‘the seaside’.

  32. “Chris, you are the only person who has ever heard of it.”

    Nope. 🙂

    Heck, one of BC Ferries latest ferrys (built in Poland) is named the Salish Orca.

    Cheers

    PS – Ta Addolff; was just about to post something similar to that. 🙂

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *