Not fit for purpose

Matt Hancock has called for an urgent review into England’s coronavirus death toll, having only just realised that anyone who has ever tested positive counts in Covid statistics, regardless of the cause of their death.

In contrast to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, where daily deaths are often zero, daily Covid deaths in England hover persistently around 100.

Now, statisticans have analysed Public Health England (PHE)’s methodology and found that at least some of this is because of a counting method that means that even if someone is run over and killed, if they previously tested positive for Covid they would add to the statistics.

“No one with Covid in England is allowed to ever recover from their illness,” write Carl Heneghan, from Oxford University, and Yoon Loke, from University of East Anglia.

That explains their obesity stats too I assume. Anyone who ever has consumed a Yorkie bar dies of it, even if the death cert say anorexia.

47 thoughts on “Not fit for purpose”

  1. It’s interesting that Hancock discovered this fact on a blog. What was our Rolls Royce civil service doing, leaving the Sec State for Health uninformed? I suppose Sir Humphrey always thought it a mistake to inform his minister.

  2. PHE nannies us about alcohol and diet but is worse than useless at its proper job. Sack the lot of them.

  3. Minister discovers his department is a bunch of useless incompetents and his staff have been lying to him.
    So what’s new?
    Why did it take Hancock so long to discover this?
    And what does he propose to do about it?

  4. How much of this statistical jiggery-pokery was politically motivated. ‘Floppy-haired man bad’?

  5. “And what does he propose to do about it?”

    TtC, surely he will propose adding MORE. “The cure for bad government is more government.”

  6. Why not just replace PHE with a random selection of 6 grannies? You know, the sort of people who know how to count, keep supplies of tea and biscuits in case visitors call round and generally know how to manage life and organise themselves

  7. Once a government is in office it is overwhelmingly in contact with politicians and civil servants. Unless it had a clear idea what it planned to do prior to entering office it will be steered by politicians and civil servants.
    No politician had a plan for dealing with Covid prior to the last election, hence this government is dependent on advice from civil servants and in this case SAGE, there being neither time nor opportunity to do much independent research.
    I suspect the civil service has been so sharp it has cut itself. It has led ministers a merry dance, but will find that business as usual will not be the long term outcome.
    It is to be noted that so far as can be seen the government has stuck to its plans on Brexit, though doubtless it received as much duff advice as May, because it started with plans of its own.
    In a similar vein Gove was an effective minister of education because he started with plans of his own. Dumped into the department of the environment he was swiftly captured by the civil servants.

  8. Oh, and here’s another good one. From lockdownsceptics.org:

    ‘But there is one hidden gem in the FT’s investigation. It’s in the section focusing on March 23rd, when the decision to lockdown was “finally” taken.

    ‘Later that day, a plan to lockdown the UK simultaneously finally took shape, an approach backed by leaders in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    ‘On that fateful Friday, Cobra was chaired by Michael Gove, cabinet office minister, not Johnson. Khan says: “I went to that meeting expecting it to be London only.” Gove proposed that the pubs should close on Saturday lunchtime, but Khan and Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, argued that this was a disastrous idea and that Friday night would see mayhem. “There would have been an end of days party,” says one participant.

    ‘Gove agreed — Cummings had also come to the same conclusion — and a message was hastily relayed to Johnson, preparing for the 5pm press conference, that Cobra had agreed that the closure of pubs and restaurants should take immediate effect on Friday night. Only Jesse Norman, a Treasury minister, raised any doubts, asking whether there had been any cost-benefit analysis of the economic and health impacts of lockdown or consideration of less onerous alternatives. Around the room there were blank looks: the decision had been taken.

    ‘So there you have it folks. Only one person at that critical meeting on March 23rd asked whether any cost-benefit analysis of the impact of the lockdown had been done – Jesse Norman MP. And his question was answered with blank looks. Clearly, no such analysis had been done. When the Government took the decision to lock down the country, it was flying blind.

    ‘I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised, but I have to confess to a moment of shock when I read that. My position has always been that if the state is going to curtail our liberty, it needs a very good reason for doing so. My understanding was that when the decision was taken to place the entire population under virtual house arrest, the Government had calculated that it would do more good than harm – that it would have a net public health benefit. I was always sceptical about the claim that it would, but at least the Government had an arguable case – or so I thought. Turns out, they didn’t. They hadn’t made any calculations. They literally had no idea whether such a draconian act would do more good than harm. From the sound of it, it didn’t even occur to anyone in the Cabinet to ask the question. They just went ahead and removed our liberty anyway.’

    It’s not just PHE or Hancock who are unfit for purpose. It’s the entire governing apparatus.

  9. They:

    1-Counted multiple positive test on an individual as a “new” case each time.

    2-If you left hospital and then died in the next 3 months –of ANY cause–the counted you as a virus death.

    3- Allowed deaths WITH CCP virus to be counted as deaths FROM virus

    4–They said nothing while the total deaths-from-all-causes list –inc thousands of LD death victims–people too frightened to go to A&E or went too late– to be represented by media as virus deaths.

    It goes on in a litany of deceit designed to hide the fact that the “deadly pandemic#” was in the yearly flu rang.

    They helped ruin our economy and remove our freedoms by terrorising an ill-educated population with Bogey Man stats.

    Jail all round as a minimum. Starting with the Handcocker–and behind him Blojo.

    At least Prof Pantsdown won’t be lonely on remand.

    And fuck masks and untested “vaccines”. Esp when we already have half a dozen promising treatments–none of which our precious NHS is willing to give anyone of course.

  10. Mr Ecks, you start well, then go off on one about Bojo and Hancock, who have to act on their professional advisors’ advice.

    The point is that if ENgland has the worst deaths from CCP flu, then does this perhaps show that the NHS is shite? Or does it show that it is underfunded. Take your pick. If you tell me which one you picked, I have a 100% certainty of predicting how you will vote in the next election!

  11. I can tell you which way Mr Ecks will vote at the next election, Witchie.

    And no, Blojo et al. do not have to act (by which I think you mean ‘follow’) on the professional advice they receive.

  12. They are paid to decide, not blindly blame equally ignorant humanities educated civil servants……

    More fool the mask holes in blojo’s cabinet…..

  13. You are confused lads.

    Lets assume that this is NOT a Globo elite set up. That is an assumption I am increasingly LESS willing to make but lets make it.

    Blojo is an educated mug–the worst kind.

    He knows fuckall about anything much and is bullshitted by the SCS (who already hate him and want him to paddle himself up Shit creek under their “guidance”- as he has),Pantsdown and the marxistic SAGE gang into thinking the Black Death 2 is on the way. And in fairness the antics of the Chicom scum wont have helped. I have increasing doubts about his own supposed brush with death –but leave them aside and assume it was genuine. If so it will have been the clincher on his Saviour of the Nation fantasy.

    Once the course is set then all informational roads will lead to the pre-determined Rome. All arms of the scummy state will gather info –real and bogus depending on how much of each there is to support the Dear Leaders position. And once the LD is in place Blojob can’t just look at new undistorted info and say “I made a mistake”. That would be the end of him. So once the costs are sunk–deadly pandemic it is no matter what lies and bullshit have to be used to support that position.

    You might think there cannot be anyone so dumb as to not understand that shutting an economy will destroy it. But armed with the fantasy that printed funny money can save and repair all, Johnson has taken 4 long months to realise if we don’t get back to it we –and MUCH more importantly Blojo himself–are fucked. Hence todays –doubtless bungled– “Get UK back to work crap”. Bungled bcos he still can’t admit that he ‘s ruined us over damp squib flu.

    The NHS is floating on money it mostly wastes . Replace with private medicine at once.

    As to next vote–if the choice is ZaNu or an unreformed BlueLab –I abstain. I hope a new Party will arise. To eclipse the present scum and traitors.

  14. Never ascribe to conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence. Apart from that I’m with you all the way, Ecksy. (Good grief, I surprise myself.)
    A word in defence of Handoncock. Since the Lansley reforms the NHS has been largely self governing. Not a QUANGO, more an AGO. Ministers can pull the levers but they are quite disconnected from the machine.

  15. A mate of mine in the Pharma business told me he’d recently spoken to a doctor in Lombardy, Italy, who told him that Lombardy alone was seeing 700 COVID deaths per day for the worst 2 months of the pandemic ie more than the number reported for the nation over the entire period.
    Anecdata of course, but Italian data is about as trustworthy as Chinese and I suspect the UK death rate overall will not be the worst in Europe this year.
    Re the useless government and their halfwitted policies; that is easy to explain. They are stupid and they are cowards. I suspect his bout of illness totally sapped Boris’s bottle.
    The opposition is no better. Keith has a brilliant chance to say: “Get Britain back to work to save the economy and families etc etc’, but he doesn’t dare take the contrarian view.

  16. @ MC
    No, it’s much more trustworthy than the Chinese – it has *some* people filling in honest data

  17. @Philip – agreed re NHS and the even worse PHE. So why the fuck doesn’t Handoncock (and all these bedwetting saps we have for politicians) simply throw the whole steaming pile of shit under the bus? Call them out for what they are. Why is the NHS so untouchable? I’ve been misdiagnosed twice in the past 24 months by “our” nhs. Both times i’ve had a second opinion privately and both times put on the right track. fucking useless. and our politicians are equally spineless. The more I see of them the more I loathe them.

  18. We are seeing industrial grade mendacity from an ambitious quango that’s looking to justify a new £500 million palatial campus complex on the M25 at Harlow….

    From where I’m sat it looks like the *intent* is to distort the figures upwards and that should attract P45s and pension-ectomies.

    After this I wonder if we’ll see more ministers touring blogs for information and policy ideas….

  19. Bloke in North Dorset

    Corbyn’s been on a Twitter claiming the Gov is selling the NHS to Trump, again.

    I suggested giving him PHE as a Bogoff.

  20. Anyone know how to get the best out of gofundme? A prosecution of the Govt under the Terrorism Act should be possible, given how many saps they’ve scared shitless.

  21. @Witchie

    Bojo and Hancock, who have to act on their professional advisors’ advice

    No, no, no. They’re elected on what they claim to stand for, not as empty vessels to do civil service bidding

    Consider advice, seek independent advice (eg blogs, outside bubble), weigh up advice and own personal opinion then make a decision

    If BoJo and Hancock had read here, Hector etc back in March they may have been more discerning in what path they took and avoided damaging to all but China lockdown

    Look at numbers:
    – UK: 2019-20 is only the eighth worst season in the last twenty-six

    Global Deaths with Covid since outbreak started in November 2019:
    – A paltry 589,688 from ~7,850,000,000 population
    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

    @Mr Ecks
    Spot on

  22. British Columbia records new high in drug overdose deaths in June, 171 in one month, making it 782 for the year so far

    Total Covid deaths this year for BC are 189

    So your significantly more likely to die of a drug overdose than Covid it seems

  23. ” I’ve been misdiagnosed twice in the past 24 months by “our” nhs.”

    Two people I personally know have been recently utterly misdiagnosed by their GP, both for cancers, one of which will probably kill her in fairly short order now because of the delay in treatment. (We are talking misdiagnosis over a long period here – repeated visits to the GP about a problem over a period of a year to 18 months, not just a one time missed aggressive cancer).

    The NHS is a disgrace, its utterly unfit for purpose, it kills thousands of people annually through its incompetence and and inefficiency, yet the idiot public laud it to the skies. If there ever was a case of mass Stockholm Syndrome, the UK and its NHS fetish must surely be it.

  24. @ tomo

    “pension-ectomies” – I’ll have to steal that (as in use it, not like a government employee who thinks they earned it after years of useless “service”).

  25. I’d say we’ve seen two things here. One relates to information & the control of information. You can only make informed decisions based on the information you’re receiving. But the information the government has been receiving has been influenced by the agendas of those providing it. You can be in receipt of what you believe to be very reliable information. But it’s very difficult to go with it if it’s swamped by contradictory information, even if you don’t regard that information as reliable.
    Because secondly, the management of this crisis has largely been played out on the desks of the media. Your management has to have the support of the public. Public opinion is hostage to what information the media is providing it with. So your options get restricted to those will get the support of the media.
    Thus, it’s easy to make the mistake of laying the entire blame the incoherence of government policy on the government itself. When it’s actually been blown about by the agendas of organisations & individuals, many of which pre-date the crisis. It’s not as if the government can ever be right. Whichever options it chooses, it’s going to get flayed because it didn’t choose a different one. It”s been in the difficult position of being popular with the people but unpopular with the current “Establishment”. A lot of what’s been going on has nothing to do with effectively dealing with the current crisis & more to do with undermining the government.

  26. @Pcar, Not have to in the sense that they are legally bound to, but have to in the sense that for something for which there is no modern precedent, where would they get advice from that could possibly rate higher than from people who have studied the subject at length (and usually at great expense)? Imagine the outcry if they valued their own opinions better than the experts? Trump, anyone?

    Where the professional advice thing falls down is where the advisors are a bunch of left wing fucktards, or have the mission to bring down the government. That’s not the fault of present PM etc, but in the idiots who let complete idiots like the Imperial College professor get into those positions in the first place.

  27. @Witchie
    That course may be correct, but once empirical evidence shows what your experts told you is wrong, dump them and listen to those who were correct

    Gov’t has failed by continuing to follow advise from those who were wrong and rejects advise from those who were correct

    See:
    https://spectator.us/the-fatal-mistakes-which-led-to-lockdown/
    or
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-strong-was-the-scientific-advice-behind-lockdown

    @Jim
    Gov’t needs to be strong and do what is right, not what media & activists demand

    We’d still be in 1970s if Margaret T hadn’t stood firm

  28. Jim – many people won’t let you attack their NHS fetish.
    They feel it must be doing good despite whatever evidence people have of it being crap.

    My dad was released late at night on a December night wearing just underwear and dressing gown to walk home. In a confused state, a week after a heart attack, with a canula stuck in his hand and his body still with lots of blood thinner (which is common practice after heart attack).
    Police picked him up and took him back to the hospital.
    Where they replaced the canula, held him for a few hours, then released him again to confusedly walk home at dawn with a canula in his hand.

    You could not make this crap up.

  29. “Thus, it’s easy to make the mistake of laying the entire blame the incoherence of government policy on the government itself.”

    Masking the real problem: government power. Government should be limited enough that their ‘policy’ has little effect, anyway.

    The virtually universal “lockdowns” are extra legal. A case can be made for quarantining the sick; there is no case for quarantining the healthy.

  30. The real problem may be Government power, or it may not be, this comes down to how you define ultimate causes. For instance, the real problem when somebody is killed in a road accident is allowing cars to exist, etc. I can’t see a radical reduction of government happening any time soon anyway.

    A more tractable issue is the corruption of the Academy. Western Liberal Society has it seems to me been reliant on certain assumptions, one of which is the belief in an objective truth and methods to seek it. The court system for instance assumes a reality which can be discovered through formal rules of evidence. Likewise the discovery of more general truths by a body which we can call (and many do) The Academy. Scientists and other academics do value free truth seeking and are thus seen as an authority, or at least the best you can do in seeking an authority on matters of fact. Other epistemologies are allowed (prayer, ouija board, asking on Yahoo) but are not considered authoritative and not used by the formal organs of society as valid truth sources, unless you’re the Daily Mail.

    The problem that we have is that the Academy has become corrupted. It has been steadily abandoning the pursuit of value free knowledge. Thus, the rest of society becomes corrupted by invalid epistemologies, which we can see in the courts (particularly, Feminist legalism which was the trailblazer there) and government in matters which rely on matters of (scientific or historical, etc) fact. Without a corrupted academy, none of this shit (technical term) would have legs.

    So there is a potentially practicable way forward, which is in restoring the Academy. Unlike Anarcho Capitalism etc, this is actually doable.

  31. Ian B–You are talking about Marxist subjectivist evil being injected everywhere. The way the Trannies are being used to put Marxist subjectivist evil into the courts. As a follow up to the old-fashioned legalist injustice peddled by marx-fem scum

  32. A lot of commenters are FAR too kind towards scum like Blojob.

    The CSMF POS might be a missle-d* bungler as I suggest a few posts above—but he could just as easily be a globo elite stoge.

    This latest mask shite points to the latter.

    The game plan is to see how many curs crawl. If enough then masks 24/7 and the only way out to be an armful of Gates gene-rewriting pizz. All “voluntary” of course. You could choose to choke in the mask forever. Then the immunity cert that morphs to digital passport =Bliars ID card but much worse and then social credit a go go.

  33. * Sorry–missle-d–as in the old Steptoe & Son episode with the amateur acting group

    “Her Majesty’s Government has been seriously missle-d”.

  34. Xcy. I can’t see why you’re being so obsessive over government mask policy. It’s not even particularly draconian. Here in Spain they’ve been required since April. And that’s everywhere. All public spaces. On the streets. On the beach. Backed up with 600€ fine for non compliance. Yes they’re probably overkill bollox. The chances of contacting C19 in the open air are virtually zero. They belong under the heading “Something has to be done & this is something”
    But the idea they’re some sort of deep government plot to enslave the nation…
    The government that’s for years been spending fortunes on facial recognition systems. Has plastered the country with CCTV to capture imagery. If anything was a threat to freedom, that was. And now it’s utterly & totally f*cked. Wearing facemasks has got into the culture. It’s not going to go away. If you’re up to no-goodery, you wear a mask along with anyone else fears a runny nose, for the next few decades. Even simple eye-balling by the police has been neutered

  35. BiS–I might wear one to defeat face recog.

    Not wearing one cos some govt cunt says so. Over a deceitful winter flu scam.

    Also like I said my guess is that if enough curs crawl then masks 24/7 unless you take the jab.

    Fuck ’em.

  36. Ecks, not just PoMo, also the corruption of science into a vehicle for Puritan activism in for instance Greenism and “Public Health”.

  37. “The real problem may be Government power, or it may not be, this comes down to how you define ultimate causes. For instance, the real problem when somebody is killed in a road accident is allowing cars to exist, etc.”

    How European of you, to see government as an enabler and not a restrainer. ALLOWING ?!?!

  38. Gamecock, don’t be a Wokeish language Nazi. It’s a turn of phrase.

    Look I know that thing about “In England you may do all that is not prohibited and in other countries you can only do what is allowed” but realistically they mean exactly the same thing. That which is allowed is simply that which is not prohibited and vice versa.

  39. @BiS

    Masks are a dangerous dummy-tit. Evidence against them being erased from web

    Peter Hitchens: Face masks turn us into voiceless submissives
    Discusses BBC’s WHO leak (ignored by msm inc BBC), Papers being removed from internet, Medical Trials ‘unnecessary trial fetishism’ and the usual “might, can, could; save one life’ justification. Plus, how not wearing makes it very easy for TPTB to identify ‘rebels’

    Wearing a mask is akin to taking a knee to BLM

    BBC’s WHO leak
    Policy based evidence making inflicted on public again
    – Deborah Cohen BBC Newsnight
    “WHO changed their Face Mask advise due to Gov’ts/political pressure” – Seen To Be Doing Something
    https://youtu.be/Bw51IudGNb8?t=262

  40. “Masks are a dangerous dummy-tit. Evidence against them being erased from web”

    Agreed. Masters of the Universe know what’s right!

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