So that screws tourism then

The UK imposed restrictions on holidaymakers returning from Spain on Saturday night in a bid to curb the surge in coronavirus infections.

No, not just to Spain. It creates uncertainty about everywhere. No one can plan now, can they?

And what’s the great enemy of an economy? Uncertainty.

It’s also going to be interesting as hell to see whether the system can cope with tens of thousands who might, just might, be of a mind to not wholly cooperate.

88 thoughts on “So that screws tourism then”

  1. Notwithstanding the economic and social illiteracy of implementing such a cack handed policy in this way at the cost of millions of lower income jobs across the UK and all of Europe (and of course you’re bang on about that uncertainty too)… Looking around London, revealed preference is already showing an increasing disdain for prodnose authoritarianism with falling levels of compliance even as newer, stricter policies are implemented (our local library for example is hilarious, with so many rules to follow and people to speak to that infection is much more likely than with no controls at all!). I’d be surprised if even half of those arriving from Spain pay any attention to this at all, further dividing the public and wasting what little trust that remains in this simpleton government – something they will learn to regret should they need the public’s support and voluntary change in behaviour in future to manage any real resurgence or new epidemic.

  2. It’s way past time the government escaped from its advisors. Said advisors will always want to prolong the agony in order to prolong their role.
    The government came in with no idea that an epidemic was on its way, and had no plans of its own for one (neither did anyone else). Faced with the epidemic it relied on the “experts”, who appear to be vain and narrow minded and interested mainly in their own self importance.

  3. What ‘surge in coronavirus infections’? The 7 day average has trended up slightly in the past couple of weeks.

  4. It creates uncertainty about everywhere.

    Yup, just as with the idiot decision to enforce face masks in shops. You can’t tell people to get back to normal whilst signalling that things are clearly not normal. Twats.

  5. I have the unfortunate impression that an awful lot of people are quite happy with their four-month free trial of totalitarian socialism, and would be equally happy for it to continue indefinitely.

  6. Spain has a handful of deaths in early July, otherwise none since around 13 June.

    An infected person can be:

    False positive… 30% are.
    Asymptomatic… 50% are.
    Symptomatic, but mild/unnoticed….70% are
    Serious… 15%
    Fatal… 0,1% to 0,2%

    It would be helpful if politicians, media and others understood that, and the relevant details about ‘surge’ in infections… which accompanies increased testing… were given in order for context, proportion and balance.

    But… that would not suit the ‘we’re aaaalllllll doooomed’ narrative.

  7. Mr Lud–It isn’t going to though. The Great Paid Holiday ends late Sept/early Oct with the furloughed being re-furloughed onto 90 a week dole.

    Blojob is –at the same time–

    1-About to have 7 (my est -4 in BlueLabs far too rosy est)million former paid furlough holiday makers go on the dole while he–
    2- Launches a near limitless funny money spree=big inflation in my book–a hammer blow to the £90 a week dole reciepients and ALL on fixed income/savers etc–
    3- Has now launched his anti-junk food campaign. Well JUNK food is CHEAP food. So are dolees–likely to be there for years with economy in the state it is–to buy organic out of their 90 quid?

    Or is actual starvation Blojob’s anti-obesity plan?

    1000 people have just applied for a receptionists job in Manchester. 1000.

    And all of the above is based on the fuckers not using winter flu to call 2nd Lockdowns or allowing local idiots to go on playing their selves. If that happens all bets are off –10 million on dole?

    I increasingly think Dr Vernon Coleman is right and this is Agenda 21 takeover shite.

    No one could be that stupid just as an accident of fate.

    BiS –If you are out there–talk on twitter that Spain is to build “confinement camps” –nothing further specified. Do you have any info?

  8. People joke on here about the Guardian and peak stupidity, and of course the Guardian the following week will then continue to defy gravity.

    I’m getting the same sense with Boris and his assorted clowns. Just as you think they’ve surely got to see the light from here, nope, yet more cretinous stupidity.

    Or is it. I generally dislike the conspiracy angle (because mostly something will fail the basic smell test), but increasingly it may not be unreasonable to be at least considering that question? In that I just can’t bring myself to accept that the entire machinery of central government can be so devastatingly incompetent? Partially, yes of course, all the time, it’s public sector and politicians, but this is now going way beyond any possible level of “normal incompetence”?

  9. “Time to call it terrorism, by the medical establishment and its government allies.”

    I’m betting that this is the opposite of what will happen; instead, refusing to wear a mask will be defined as terrorism.

  10. I’m with PF rather than Ecksy. I don’t think there’s a bright enough bulb in the cabinet to come up with a cunning plan to oppress us all. What we’re seeing is the result of cowardice, stupidity, too much concern about polls & focus groups and the simple fact that the Tories are still a 2-bob New Labour tribute act.

    I read an article by some chap who was on a government committee when the Treasury informed Boris about the likely economic cost of lockdown. Apparently he was genuinely surprised. That says it all.

  11. “I increasingly think Dr Vernon Coleman is right and this is Agenda 21 takeover shite.”
    Excy. This is Loonytunes stuff. What would a government do with all this extra “control” that it couldn’t do before? And there’s far too much risk of getting the opposite of the desired result. Government governs, the legal system operates, the police police, by consent. You push the “control”button too hard & you risk losing the consent. And that wouldn’t unravel in just one area. They’d lose general consent to everything by a substantial portion of the public. It’s a good way of getting anarchy. Politicians are stupid. But not that stupid.

  12. “Who’s going to check that people are complying?”

    Why not use the army of “Contact Tracers”? They’ve been spectacularly poor at doing any tracing, and a bunch of them tested positive the other day…

  13. I hope you are right lads. If the level of power is above nat govt then … well I hope you are right.

    They have just issued a “Peter Pan” 50p BTW. Somebody is taking the piss.

  14. PF,

    “In that I just can’t bring myself to accept that the entire machinery of central government can be so devastatingly incompetent? Partially, yes of course, all the time, it’s public sector and politicians, but this is now going way beyond any possible level of “normal incompetence”?”

    What government is really bad on is crisis and change management. So, DVLA pretty much works because it’s been doing the same thing for decades. But you get some political whizz bang thing like Concorde, F-35, Millenium Dome, Olympics, HS2 and it’s a failure. Likewise, they don’t prepare for crises properly. PHE told the government they were going to do all the testing themselves, and no-one batted an eyelid.

    It mostly comes down to the fact that our politicians (of all parties) are generally inexperienced, have no management experience. They come from being barristers, teachers, wonks, PR men. The ones with military experience are junior ranks. They’ve never had to make big decisions before, never colossally fucked up with process and learned lessons.

  15. There’s also the ongoing argument I have with someone who’s an enthusiastic conspiracy theorist. The world just doesn’t operate like he thinks it does. The are no no secret cabals operating dark agendas.
    Basically, everybody operates in their own self interest. The levers of power at the top are not directly connected to the motors work things at the bottom. There’s all sorts of people in between pursuing their own interests. What information reaches the top is filtered through the people below. Instructions from the top are modified by the people carry them out. Any large organisation is about 50% dysfunctional because what it achieves is the compound of all the people in it. The idea that you can operate & succeed in dark plots in that environment is ludicrous.

  16. Popped in to Asda yesterday. Now that we have masks we don’t need the one way system any more it seems, all the little arrows have gone.

  17. Bloke in North Dorset

    MC’s correct about polls and focus groups. James Forsyth, probably one of the best informed political journalists when it comes to the Conservative Party, keeps bringing it up on the Coffee House Shots podcast. They don’t make a move without it being focused grouped to death.

    Sad to say this is what people and we’re getting it good ‘n’ ‘ard.

  18. BiS–You mean “confinement camps”? Didn’t say I believed it but it was on Twitter. They could be for Catalan Seperatists –if such camps existed. But don’t be so foolish as to have TOO much belief in the impossibility of such. Europe has seen them before and 2 million Uighers will give you an argument about reality.

  19. We’ve had compulsory masks for months. The consensus seems to be they’re a good thing. At least the spanish are headed towards their accustomed dysfuntionality rather than cowering in their homes. You may get a consensus in the UK. You may not. Different cultures. The spanish doesn’t have the third world enrichment the Brit cities do. As a mate in the UK pointed out, do you want to be the Tesco security guard insisting a couple of “Yo dissin’ me, mon” bro’s mask up?

  20. BiND

    Interesting. I wonder if Dominic is getting his analysis right on where the votes on this issue are coming from. Most people who think the Government are overreacting will be Conservatives. I reckon face nappies in shops will take this to a new level (lots of Cons strongly opposed). Those that want even more of this authoritarian lunacy will tend to the left. The left will never vote for Boris anyway.

    I guess my question: Is Cummings getting his sums right? I’m certainly way past the stage of “I could never vote for Boris again after this no matter what”, and I used to like the guy (because he pissed off all the right people).

  21. I’m with PF and BiSpain on this – there’s no grand conspiracy out there, just a bunch of idiotarians doing whatever seems like a good idea in the present half-hour. But, there is a real problem with idiotarian government: when the productive classes have been driven to despair, because the unpredictable randomness of edicts from above means they can no longer make plans for the future, then they will say “we don’t care any longer – just give us some form of leadership”. And that’s when a revolution of some kind suddenly seems like a good idea.

    So, whereas the idiotarians are not actively planning a coup, they are calling forth the precise conditions in which one becomes possible. I hope this is avoided and, if not, that our next overlord and dictator will be a Cincinnatus (and for the record would like to make it clear that I, for one, will welcome him/her/xe/it), but…

  22. It’s the idea the Dagos could organise secret confinement camps amuses me. They have enough problems tying their own shoelaces.

  23. Interesting take on Boris’ mask edict from Steven Goddard:-

    You Decide:

    The Irish guy in the video is an ex journalist who got kicked off the paper for dissing the trannies. His take on who’s behind it might entertain BiS.

  24. Ok BiS– Rumour v likely false.

    Uk shop guards told to lay off because these shite edict iss’d Regs do not overwrite 2010 Equalities Act. So if they question/harass/refuse entry to someone with a long-term disability then that’s £5000 fine to shop +£900 to £9000 compo to the refused.

    Of course “fog of war” some may not have heard or be too dumb or not care. The fuckwits at Morrisons are trying a full on hard nose routine. We’ll see how expensive that is for them. My custom has already relocated.

  25. MC is right, there is no conspiracy, just stupid people cocking things up. Why it looks like a conspiracy is because of the few psychopaths who see the chaos and take advantage of the opportunity to carry out their wishes.

  26. Ecksy. Morrison’s has Morrison’s customer base. Be interesting to see Lidl try the same with a bunch of Paki women.

  27. Kevin B–My theory is that Blojob is counting mugs. If enuf show yellow then its masks 24/7 outside yr door (as in Australia now) until you take Gates untested gene-rewriting vax.

    Payoff for Gates=cash and advancement of UN Agenda shite

    Payoff for Blojo=immune certificates (so you can live a “normal ” life) which becomes Digital Immunity Passport=Bliars Id card but worse = first steps to Chicom style social credit system.

  28. BiS–Why would Lidl security be bothering the already subjugated ?

    You are far too full of misplaced confidence. The Great Replacement is real. The Irish can see it on the streets of Dublin. Their last Teasack TOLD them there were to be outbred–and forced to live in cities because of greenfreak bullshit. The Irish bloke is not a nutter.He might be incorrect–but given what Var-dick-er was about his fears are NOT unreasonable.

    These are dangerous times. Too much certainty is just as much an enemy as too much credulity.

  29. PF,

    “I guess my question: Is Cummings getting his sums right? I’m certainly way past the stage of “I could never vote for Boris again after this no matter what”, and I used to like the guy (because he pissed off all the right people).”

    Cummings is a good guy, generally better than most, but he also has too much faith in the idea of changing government with more science and AI.

    The challenge is how to get more voters to vote for less government, to realise how bad it is, and that it’s not about Conservative failure or Labour failure, but a general, global problem that also affects Obama, whoever is in charge in France or Canada.

  30. “Kevin B–My theory is that Blojob is counting mugs. If enuf show yellow then its masks 24/7 outside yr door (as in Australia now) until you take Gates untested gene-rewriting vax.

    Payoff for Gates=cash and advancement of UN Agenda shite

    Payoff for Blojo=immune certificates (so you can live a “normal ” life) which becomes Digital Immunity Passport=Bliars Id card but worse = first steps to Chicom style social credit system.”

    Ecksy. It’s fantasy stuff. Oliver Stone film script. You’re presuming a competence there’s absolutely no sign of. Idiotarians all.

  31. If you are an authoritarian state which covered the country with CCTV cameras, why would you then insist everyone wears a mask which makes identification almost impossible?

  32. BiS

    “We’ve had compulsory masks for months. The consensus seems to be they’re a good thing.

    Really? Outside, in the middle of summer – which is broadly your current regs? Christ, the Dagos are more supine than I imagined.

  33. Lots of larger supermarkets have cafes inside. So you must wear a mask to enter and then walk past a maskless person having a cup of coffee. You know it makes sense!

  34. @ MC
    The data available today is that Spanish cases found nearly doubled Thursday and Friday compared to Tuesday and Wednesday which were just over double those a week earlier – that’s a quadrupling in 8 or 9 days. Quarantine is certainly a reasonable reaction.
    Whether quarantine will be observed is a different question.
    Jonathan Ashworth “wants to know” why Raab didn’t demand quarantine based on one day’s data – well simply because one day’s data could be a random fluctuation or due to some province having a fault in its IT system and reporting a week’s data in a single day when that cured. Two days is much more likely to show reality. But few politicians care aa much about reality as they do about media quotes.

  35. I entered Spain by ferry on Monday afternoon on my motorcycle. It was made crystal clear with repeated announcements you were required to comply with temp check and provide contact details on paper form or you would be denied disembarkation.

    I entered the UK by Eurotunnel on Sat afternoon on my motorcycle. At no point was COVID mentioned. No-one checked I’d completed the entry notification and contact tracing form.

    Europeans are used to a low-compliance rate so they enforce things they need enforcing. UK used to have a high compliance rate so never needed to enforce things. Now we have a low compliance rate but fail to enforce the things that matter, or that the state says matters.

  36. Why do Captain Blackadder’s (almost) last words in Blackadder Goes Forth keep going round in my head?

    “Who’d notice another madman around here?”

  37. John77–Test more find more cos its widespread . I would ask how many deaths –but I wouldn’t believe ANY of the govt bullshitters.

    There are 6 or more effective treatments inc Hydrochloro+ zinc etc and Budesonide –an inhaled corticosteroid.

    We don’t need vax and we don’t need any 2nd wave cockrot either.

  38. It’s a case of “we have this snazzy new technology. Now how can we use it?”
    AI, big data, ability to ID people even in masks: stuff that governments love. So UK govt does it. Except they do it badly because a) it’s not an existential thing like it is for the CCP and b) because they don’t have the budget or the expertise that (say) the US has.
    Cue clusterf*ck.

  39. @ PF
    There are considerable numbers of people here who are genuinely frightened of getting the virus. For a culture that everyone kisses everyone else on meeting & leaving, that’s almost gone. The consensus is we all wear masks for everybody else’s benefit. Of course this does not apply to women for their interminable & constant fone conversations, but they’ll glare at you if you’re not wearing yours.
    Yes they’re a pain in this climate. But people are putting up with it.

  40. I’d a Portuguese labourer here a few weeks ago. About 40-ish.in good shape. It was the first job he’d done since February. He freely admitted he was ‘so scared’ of the virus.

  41. The masks do not work and provide zero protection only the illusion of it. Indeed they may help virus spread.

    Not that anyone should care as it is a damp squib anyway.And half a dozen treatments exist.

  42. Ecksy, they do work. We’ve used them in conjunction with protective clothing in areas with pigeon shit. Psittacosis risk. The disposable type masks. Typically, you get through several masks a day. Disposal regimen is to remove mask, touching as little as possible, bag it for burning. Wash hands & face afterwards with bactericide.
    They are no use whatsoever as being used. If there is virus present in the air, the mask filter concentrates it on the outside of the mask. Handling the mask transfers virus from the outside to the inside. Reuse & you’re breathing concentrated virus.You’d be safer not wearing it.
    The washable fabric fashion masks are going to be worse.

  43. Well, he was self-employed, Mr B so, unless I am missing something, being scared of work will avail him naught. And ackcheloi, he worked very hard. Our local dago- and wop-watchers would’ve been surprised.

  44. Entertainingly, the most likely explanation is Ecksy’s conspiracy served by layers of incompetent useful idiots.

    Funny stuff is definitely happening amongst the Political classes. Momentum plotted to take over Labour and failed after two election losses.
    BLM and antifa are clearly funded in a conspiracy fashion. Try to find out exactly who and where that cash comes from.
    How exactly did an American cop killing an American cause riots in the UK?
    Wasn’t it lucky a Covid virus was found in the wet market near a bio research lab instead of one of the many other wet markets?
    Adam Smith pointed out that people in similar industries meeting socially always ended up in a conspiracy against customers. Politics, big business, the civil service all have overlapping interest and we’ve never paid more tax, you all do the maths?
    At the same time, government has never been stupider or more incompetent, it’s big and has few measures of productivity and no one interested in applying the ones it has.

  45. Bloke in North Dorset

    PF,

    “ Interesting. I wonder if Dominic is getting his analysis right on where the votes on this issue are coming from. Most people who think the Government are overreacting will be Conservatives. I reckon face nappies in shops will take this to a new level (lots of Cons strongly opposed). Those that want even more of this authoritarian lunacy will tend to the left. The left will never vote for Boris anyway.”

    Dom listens to Prof Matthew Goodwin has been calling this right for the past 10 years or so and only the Tories have listened, like it or not (and I don’t) the country as a whole is leaning left on the economy and conservative socially. Dom gets this and that’s why the Conservatives are still ahead in the polls despite they’re incompetence and why they’re being very cautious over ending lockdown.

    The other side of that equation is tha Conservative supporters will always vote for them anyway.

  46. BiND “The other side of that equation is tha Conservative supporters will always vote for them anyway.”

    Not this one, I have been voting for the least worst option for 30 years, enough’s enough.

  47. Spain? If I was there I’d be asking for free extension in hotel and continue to pay for meals etc

    @Pat July 26, 2020 at 8:13 am
    Epidemic?

    No. Death “with C-19” of 0.06% of UK population is not an epidemic, it’s equivalent to a bad flu

  48. BiS–Pigeon shit is vastly larger than virus. Best mask avail to public NS95 has holes larger than Virus. If you smeared enough pigeon shit on your mask to stop all air in both directions and used it to seal mask to your mug that might work apart from you suffocating. And your eyes also being a point of virus entry.

    All for a damp squib winter flu with 1/2 dozen+ effective treatments already in hand.

    You wear mask–I wont.

  49. BiND–Wait til 7 million hit the dole Q Sept/October. Then we will see how polls look. Not that I want ZaNu to benefit. Esp as all they have done is whine Blojob’s hysteria hasn’t been hysterical enough.

  50. It’s not the virus the mask stops, Ecksy. It’s the droplets people exhale, containing the virus.
    I’ll be wearing a mask today, because I don’t get the option. There isn’t a shop I can go in without one. And I don’t fancy a 600€ fine by the police.
    OK, they’re probably useless but you have to understand the purpose they’re serving here. They’re a psychological crutch. If we weren’t masked, there’d be a lot of people hiding at home & not participating in the economy. We’ve enough problems with that as it is. The latest edict from UK.GOV put the final coup de grace on our tourist industry & there’s not much else down here.
    It’s got absolutely nothing to do with what I think, personally. Right through lockdown this apartment was open house to the local hooker community. Somebody had to help them. I’m well into the vulnerable age group so am at considerable risk of succumbing to the virus. But I take the view, that if I did, the two outcomes are identical. If I recover I’ve no problems & if it kills me, by definition I’ve no problems. I’m dead. I’m certainly not going to endure a hiatus in my thoroughly enjoyable lifestyle as I haven’t got much more time to pursue it anyway. I’ve no intention of finishing my days watching daytime TV in incontinence pants.

  51. Disagree with all of that BiS. Droplets have heretofore been stopped well-enough by a hanky.

    But at least the Dago Dustbin heirs of Franco have been consistent in their stupidity. The mask here is about nothing but obey. And I wont.

  52. Well then Ecksy, if the UK gets a second wave this winter you’ll probably be instrumental in nosediving the UK economy into the ground. Because you’re going to have exactly the same phenomenon as we have here. There’ll be a lot of people so shit scared of the virus they’ll hide at home. You can’t get the teachers back to work now.
    This is the difference between pragmatism & wankers with moral principles. Sometimes, to get the result you need, you have to compromise. Understand that your personal opinions are worthless.

  53. But as I’ve said before, I don’t think it really matters. For all their faults, the Spanish do have a recognisable spanish culture. I think the same could be said of France or Germany or Portugal. As far as British cities are concerned, they’re no longer British. They’re full of third world riff raff. At least Paris restricts its garbage to the suburbs. If you don’t have a consensus to start with you’re not going to get one. What happens out in the boonies doesn’t really figure. That’s not where the economy happens.

  54. Go along to get along is the unofficial motto of evil BiS.

    As for 2nd waves–there never was a FIRST one. It was all lies and bullshit from day one. Maybe you are right that Blojob pissed his pants rather than is the globo elites man. No matter. He cant admit he was wrong anyway. And likely ord winter flu will be used as the excuse for 2nd wave. Which will destroy UK econ. And mask crawling will make no diff. I predict that UK mask crawls reward will be masks 24/7.

  55. Oh FFS, Ecks, it doesn’t matter what you think. It’s what the majority believe. The media, it’s mainly the media, have hyped up a mild inconvenience for most, into an existential crisis, for all. That’s the world we’re living in. Not Ecksworld. So that’s the world we have to negotiate.

  56. Because you’re going to have exactly the same phenomenon as we have here. There’ll be a lot of people so shit scared of the virus they’ll hide at home.

    You have compulsory masks there and people are still so shit scared they stay at home? Then what is the point of masks?

    I would argue that the imposition of compulsory masks is an official government statement that things are dangerously abnormal. This is what makes people shit scared. Boris isn’t getting his civil servants back to the office, and there’s no way the teachers are going back in September.

  57. Well then Ecksy, if the UK gets a second wave this winter you’ll probably be instrumental in nosediving the UK economy into the ground.

    Steady!

    PJF

    100% agreed. Lots of people died, maybe 13 months (or so, who knows) of deaths this year (and mostly very old) instead of 12? But, as I think most of us on here agree, the whole subsequent process increasingly stinks / looks like theatre. Happy (as per higher up the thread) to go with “Boris trying to extricate himself from his bungling with ever more stupidity” over conspiracy, unless hard evidence to the contrary comes to light. But it still stinks.

    These face mask exemptions (that in effect cannot be challenged) are interesting. It’s as if Boris (intentionally or otherwise) has in fact made it partially voluntary for those who care enough. It’ll be interesting over a few weeks to see how this then starts to evolve (in the UK; different for you entirely BiS with the more dictatorial cultural approach to this stuff over in Dago).

  58. You can’t get the teachers back to work now.

    I think that’s rather less to do with the Chinese flu and rather more to do with the unions trying to extend the paid holiday for their members for another 6 months.

  59. @PF
    (in the UK; different for you entirely BiS with the more dictatorial cultural approach to this stuff over in Dago)
    I think you’d be surprised how this country actually works. It’s far less dictatorial than the UK. Why do you think I moved here? Our police aren’t the costumed thugs you have in the UK. And the Spanish are a lot less supine than the Brits.

  60. BiS

    I have little knowledge of Dagoland specifically on that score so I’ll take your word for it. And hence maybe face nappies whilst out walking in the open air through the hot summer is more of a fetish or style or “I enjoy doing this” type thing? Ie, than any form of supine obedience, to something that is otherwise obviously complete and utter bollocks? Which is fair enough.

  61. BIS,

    “But as I’ve said before, I don’t think it really matters. For all their faults, the Spanish do have a recognisable spanish culture. I think the same could be said of France or Germany or Portugal. As far as British cities are concerned, they’re no longer British. They’re full of third world riff raff.”

    There’s this ersatz attempt at some sort of British patriotism, but it always avoids the times we kicked the crap out of the Germans, and it always has to be “inclusive”. It can’t be about the Armada, Newton, the steam engine. In 40 years, we’ve replaced the sort of patriotism I remember with a sort of watered-down, “inclusive” version which apologies for being British and went scouring the history books for diverse non-entities.

    You go to France, you never get any of this. France never goes apologizing for Algeria. There aren’t a gazillion movies about them being terrible like there has been in Britain.

  62. I agree, BoM4. I’ve lived in France. The French aren’t ashamed to be French. If you want to live there, you do things the french way or they’ll make life very difficult for you. Not just the authorities but the people.

  63. The French aren’t ashamed to be French.

    I don’t think the British are ashamed of being British. The BBC and their fellow travellers might be, but that leaves 50 million of the rest of us.

  64. @PF
    It’s consideration for other people. Spain had a very bad time, early in the pandemic. It scared them. Wearing masks reassures them You do it, not because you enjoy it but because everyone’s doing it. The fabled Blitz spirit of my grandmother’s era. She would have liked it here. Better than the current shithole her son died to defend.

  65. BiS

    I do genuinely get all that, the sentiment, and even the bad experience early on. And I understand your own sympathy for it (if that’s the right word).

    But science (or any real data) simply doesn’t support what they are doing. They are being reassured on a false premise, a complete and total lie. How can one admire the Blitz spirit of something that doesn’t exist (at all). In the Blitz, the bombs were very real. Whereas passing Covid on, whilst slightly distanced and out in the open air in the middle of summer, and *because* one wasn’t wearing some ineffective cloth covering? Pure delusion…

    But, yes, I get it. In this case, I agree with you, this is clearly not supine.

  66. With reference to the belief that masks stop droplets there is this:
    “Physics says they shouldn’t work as the median respiratory droplet size is sub-micron, a single such particle can contain enough virons to infect you, particles of that size are inhaled deep into the lungs and particles of that size go right through anything less than an N95 in both directions with very few to nearly none of them being trapped. You’re trying to stop mosquitoes with a chain-link fence!”
    This is backed up by 14 RCTs on Masks, no evidence they have any effect:
    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARvru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

  67. @ Nessimmersion
    What the scientists claim is that the masks stop *the larger droplets upon which the virus hitches a ride*.
    And I can tell you that they do stop most of the moisture exhaled which is why/how one’s spectacles get steamed up unless one manages a perfect seal. Moisture escaping onto one’s spectacles is not a vector for transmission of infection so we don’t worry about that infecting passers-by.

  68. Oh I do think the comparison’s apposite. It’s a feature of the media coverage. The daily infection & death tolls ticking up on news web pages. Everybody’s made to feel a participant in the Great Unfolding Tragedy. Gran lived in Poplar. She was on the receiving end of the Blitz. But unless one lived in one of the big cities, Blitz was something happened to other people. Radio & the newspapers made it national. Same with C19. Few people actually lose someone they know to it. But the media makes it personal.
    Wonder how far you’d have to go back for the pandemic to be a non event. Pre internet it’d be solely broadcast & print. Much less impact. Much before the 70’s, they wouldn’t have identified the virus. Maybe it’d be a severe flu epidemic. Inside pages of the papers for a week until other news drove it out altogether. Anything before that, the excess deaths would be lost in the noise. Less because there’d be fewer older people to die. No-one would have noticed. It’s hardly the ’19 Spanish Flu.
    What we’re having to cope with now is what the media has given us. You could call it the Great Media Panic Pandemic.

  69. You guys really do have the mask concept the wrong way round, don’t you? The mask isn’t to stop you inhaling the virus. You could absorb the virus through the eyes just as easily. It’s to stop you exhaling your virus over other people.
    But like I pointed out earlier, no one knows how to use them. UK Gov given advice on how to wear a mask?. Those women glare at you over their mask because you’re not wearing one. Then they get that vitally important phone call. Mask off whilst they jaw with their pal. Scrunched up in one hand or under the chin. Exhaling virus over everyone whilst they jabber. Finish call, then it’s fiddle with mask to get it back into place. Tranferring virus from the outside to the inside. They might as well have not worn the bloody thing. But they’re back to glaring.

  70. Too true BIS. The mask is theatrical, like an Anderson shelter in Islington. My mum’s family went down Angel Islington tube. When they came up, their house, the square, the church… All blown to pieces and charcoaled. If they had stayed in the backyard, they would have been barbecued

  71. It’s to stop you exhaling your virus over other people.

    It’s much more to do with localising the exhalation (and cough, sneeze). It’s not that the virus doesn’t go through, it’s that it doesn’t project so much when it does. It doesn’t matter in that sense that people mishandle their mask.

    The masks-in-shops policy makes no sense at all this late in the game; we’ve not been wearing them and there clearly hasn’t been a problem. It seems likely-to-certain that the purpose is to prepare us for total outside-the-home mask-wearing later in the year.

  72. Wear a mask to buy food. Then do what you think you should do to survive. Pragmatism rules. If I am not allowed to roam around the country because of “risks”, I might wear a mask just to get that glass of beer. Pragmatism in action. Relying on démagogues sounds like a French classical Tragedy, with homoerotic qualities, just for bis

  73. The mask is theatrical, like an Anderson shelter in Islington.

    Another WWII analogy would be the great national effort that resulted in everyone’s fences and gates being tipped into the North Sea.

  74. “You guys really do have the mask concept the wrong way round, don’t you? The mask isn’t to stop you inhaling the virus. You could absorb the virus through the eyes just as easily. It’s to stop you exhaling your virus over other people.”

    What was the first two things they told us to do to combat the virus?

    Wash your hands for X seconds, and don’t touch your face with your hands.

    What is everyone doing with a mask on? Constantly touching it, and their face, fiddling with the fitting, making it fit better, loosening it etc etc. If the idea is to prevent other people being infected IF you are infectious, then all that hands to mask/face and back action is doing is transferring the virus from the mask (where the mask has concentrated it, if its doing the job you say it is) onto your hands, and thus onto communal surfaces everywhere. You might as well smear your virus ridden breath droplets over every shopping cart, door handle, EFPOS machine and stair rail you come across while wearing a mask, because thats what you’re doing.

    The whole thing is theatre for the weak and feeble minded.

  75. @bis
    First Wave? Death “maybe with C-19” of 0.06% of UK population is not an epidemic, it’s equivalent to a bad flu

    Mask? If mask keeps wearer safe, why should they care if someone not wearing one?

    Wear if you want, don’t demand others do. If you’re cold, do you demand everyone wears a coat?

    Media under Political pressure?
    This is a U-Turn on Paul Murray’s normal stance
    – Mask “It’s only a little thing to do”
    – Sky News host Paul Murray says the people not wearing masks and pushing back against police, and shopping attendants on social media are not freedom fighters nor are they pushing back against the Left
    – “You wouldn’t even have the balls to confront your local MP let alone the Premier, so stop picking on the people who are trying to keep everyone safe”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v33Zwye8rMo

    Does he know they haven’t complained to MP etc?
    If mask keeps him safe, why should he care if someone not wearing one?

    Comments say it all: “Turncoat”
    https://c2n.me/48xrUw0.png

    @bis July 27, 2020 at 8:09 pm
    The ‘protect others’ is emotional blackmail, not mask efficacy. >90% of C-19 Viri go straight through/round mask in Both directions

    Plus, who are you infecting? ~80% (>99% in under 15) have innate immunity to this “novel” corona virus

    Coming soon: Grannies fainting in supermarket

  76. “Media under Political pressure?”
    Hardly. More politicians under media pressure.
    Right from the start it’s been “What is government doing about it?”
    Is it a surprise they respond with “We must do something. This is something”?
    Over to the media & it’s “Not enough something” or “The wrong something!”
    Here they’re insisting masks should be worn on the beach. On a beach that is so hot you can’t walk on it in bare feet without severely burning your soles. With UV levels will lobsterize a pallid Brit in 15 minutes.
    But “something is being done”!

  77. Firstly an analogy explanation for why masks worsen any aerosol transfer of virus, aerosol transfer not actually proven yet for Covid.
    This correlates with relative humidity suppression of winter flus.

    After over 25 years working with nanoparticles – here’s what happens with a cloth face mask when you cough or sneeze. The larger droplets are caught in the mesh of the mask – they are mainly water filled with 100’s of thousands of tiny virus particles (if you’re infected). To scale – imagine a football hitting the back of the net and sticking there. Now imagine the football as a water droplet filled with tiny plastic balls about 1000 times smaller than the holes in the net – the net holes are roughly 10 cm so say 10 microns or about 1/10 of a human hair across. Now put a large fan on the goal line and set it to blow through the water football i.e. simulate breathing through the mask. You will get a plume of water droplets roughly 10 times the size of the plastic balls they contain (or 100 times smaller than the holes in the net) sent through the net into the stands. Your mask is now acting as a reservoir for the virus to be spread more widely. To go back to the football analogy – it would be better to have no net and allow the football to settle and slowly evaporate at the base of the advertising hoardings.
    The only way this will help is if the mask is removed immediately after a cough or sneeze, disposed of (ideally contaminated waste burn bin), face and hands thoroughly cleaned and new mask fitted. Every cough or sneeze.

  78. Theodore Dalrymple has a very appropriate observation for the mask hysteria:
    “Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

    Theodore Dalrymple

  79. Thank you for that Nessimmersion.

    Pcar–Sky are the enemy –save for Australian Sky–& I never heard of Paul Murray whoever the fuck he is but “too afraid”to confront local MP or Blojob himself? The chance would be a fine fucking thing. The local gobboon is in hiding and Bloj does f-all except crap-spreading carefully controlled on film “visits” where you NEVER see the goon squad and where carefully vetted mugs ask inane shite that are minor quibbles about the fat bastards plans.

    Even a non-aggressive fronting about his antics doesn’t happen and if it did it would end its days on the cutting room floor.

  80. @bis
    You obviously forgot these – Gov’t/state wanted media pressure, Sky Aus & Fox said No

    https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/covid-coercion-boris-johnsons-psychological-attack-uk-public

    “A planned campaign of disinformation serving systematic demoralisation”: In March Gov’t was concerned the public weren’t sufficiently scared and fearful and prompted MSM to induce fear in the public
    Think about that, UK Gov’t wanted UK public in fear and panic

    Delingpole: Gov’t wants fear of Covid-19 increased, media to play important part

    The Mainstream Media Are Bought, Paid for – and Doomed
    Instead of attempting to sift the available evidence with cool reason, the MSM have done little else but ramp up the hysteria; and instead of holding the political Establishment’s lockdown policies to account, the media have instead acted like its cheerleaders
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/05/26/the-mainstream-media-are-bought-paid-for-and-doomed/

    “…In other words the data supports that there was never justification to shut down the economy and order people to shelter in place. We knew this factually by April 1st and from that day forward all of these measures have been a fraud — a continuing fraud — and the data continues to come in over time on an unbroken basis in support of that assertion….”
    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239421

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