Democracy is our highest value, right?

But what is certain is that Trump has done better than expected. And as I write more than 60 million Americans have recorded a vote for a populist, sexist, racist, global warning denying, delusional, potentially violent candidate with strong fascist tendencies.

We do all insist that democracy matters above all else, right?

83 thoughts on “Democracy is our highest value, right?”

  1. The State, the State and nothing but the State. In those terms Trump is the exact opposite of a fascist. (I’d call him antifa but that name’s taken by fascists.)

  2. I find this quite upsetting. The Democrat tack for the last five years has been to attack the Orange Man. So their own candidate doesn’t matter. You aren’t voting for ________, you are voting against Trump. This may wind up being a successful strategy.

    Under normal circumstances, I’d say the Dems have made a strategic blunder. 4 years of Biden/Harris should be their end. “Be careful what you wish for.” But these aren’t normal circumstances. The Left controls academia, the press, internet “platforms” and social media. This election says it’s not possible to defeat them.

    They haven’t achieved cultural hegemony, so whatever they try is going to be messy. I have to pray it will be messy enough to prevent it.

  3. As I write more than 60 million Americans have recorded a vote for a creepy, child molesting, doddering career politician, with documented ties to China, and documented shakedown of Ukraine, whose greatest political accomplishment was helping credit card companies bash consumers.

    And for his communist side kick, who surely will become president within 4 years.

    Democracy means accepting the other side’s victory. The Left never accepted Trump’s victory. I’m left trying to figure out what I can do to not accept Biden’s victory – it’s only fair – and what can we do to make things better in the next election (assuming there is one).

  4. There would be certain karmic humour for a Republic senate to vote to impeach Biden next week if he (as now looks likely) squeaks a victory. Set the impeachment hearings start date for inauguration day in Jan and subpoena Hunter as a key witness. What a larf!

  5. Dennis, Political Savant

    Gamecock –

    Calm down, you’re starting to sound like Ecks.

    As it stands right now the only states really in play are Nevada, Michigan and Wisconsin. Biden will probably take Wisconsin and Trump will probably take Michigan. Nevada is a toss-up.

    North Carolina, Alaska and Georgia are Trump’s. Why Fox refuses to call them is anyone’s guess. And while there are plenty of votes to be counted in Pennsylvania, Trump’s margin is so large I don’t think a major fraud operation could overcome it.

    Trump is far closer to winning than Biden is.

    And note this: As it stands the Republicans will keep control of the Senate and might gain a few seats in the House. Republicans keeping the Senate was at least as important as Trump being re-elected.

  6. Dennis, Whose Own Mental Health Is Never In Doubt

    I am surprised, though.

    I thought Trump would take Arizona and either Minnesota or Wisconsin (or both). I was expecting Trump to have about 300 electoral votes.

    And if Biden wins, well, I’ll put on my Big Boy pants and accept it for what it is. Just as I did with Obama. Life goes on and this election isn’t going to end the world as we know it one way or the other.

    Remember this: If you’ve spent the last four years calling Democrats, liberals, progressives and Never Trumpers assholes and traitors for refusing to accept Trump as their president, then don’t start acting (and sounding) like them if Biden wins. It will do nothing to enhance your credibility. Leave the drama queen stuff to the opposition.

  7. Dennis, Pointing Out The Obvious

    There would be certain karmic humour for a Republic senate to vote to impeach Biden next week if he (as now looks likely) squeaks a victory. Set the impeachment hearings start date for inauguration day in Jan and subpoena Hunter as a key witness. What a larf!

    Civics 101: The United States Constitution provides that the House of Representatives “shall have the sole Power of Impeachment” ( Article I, section 2 ) and that “the Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments…[but] no person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of the Members present” ( Article I, section 3 ). The president, vice president, and all civil officers of the United States are subject to impeachment.

    Impeachment happens in the House.

    The Democrats will control the House next week, just as they did last week.

  8. Collectivists are a waste product of civilization. They should be disposed of responsibly and not allowed to clog up civilization until it stops functioning.

  9. @Dennis

    “Trump is far closer to winning than Biden is.”

    Betting markets put Trump at about a 20% chance so if that’s your current opinion then there’s money to be made on it…

  10. The good thing from a Rightist perspective is that the worst that can happen is a Dem president, countered by a Rep Senate and a 6-3 conservative majority (or maybe 5-4 as Roberts might as well be a liberal judging by his recent votes) in the Supreme Court. So a Biden Presidency would be a big nothing burger as far as I can see.

  11. I hope you are right about Trump’s chances Dennis. Do the republicans stlll hold the Senate–and can the Senate stop Demorat powerplays like fiddling with Elec Coll etc? And is not a great danger the importing of more voters–no more wall/immigration reduction then. USA could be host to most of Somalia voting for benefits.

    That sort of thing WILL change things and leave Republicans unelectable.

  12. In the Courageous State, people like this won’t be attracted to power. Oh no. The only people who will seek election will be like my gran.

  13. @dennis

    The thing you seem most at variance with compared to the betting is your assessment that “Trump will probably take Michigan” – the betting markets give him about a 20% chance there.

  14. Dennis, Your Guide To The USA

    USA could be host to most of Somalia voting for benefits.

    Nice bit of stereotyping Ecks, but your knowledge level is about where it always is.

    Central Ohio has the second largest Somali population, behind only Minneapolis. I’ve worked in the community since January, 2001. The majority voted for Donald Trump in 2016, and I expect the same in 2020. Africans (and Muslims) are culturally conservative, and a large majority of them are repulsed by the Democrat embrace of homosexuality and their hostility towards marriage and the traditional family. The other part of the equation is that Africans in general tend to look down on African Americans. They see them as immoral, lazy and moochers. A lot of them wouldn’t vote Democrat simply because they see it as the party of African Americans. Finally, a lot of them were greatly disappointed by Barack Obama… As one young Trump voting Somali told me in 2016, “I voted for Obama in 2012, and I’ll never let myself get fooled like that again”.

  15. . . . Trump will probably take Michigan . . .

    Trump’s lead has been steadily narrowing in Michigan and as of two hours ago it was essentially level. The outstanding votes are urban postals. Very likely a Biden win.

    It seems to be down to PA. And. . that’s mainly urban postals + Democrat establishment. So then it’s the lawyers.

  16. The thing you seem most at variance with compared to the betting is your assessment that “Trump will probably take Michigan” – the betting markets give him about a 20% chance there.

    Yep. Trump had a modest lead last night that seems to have evaporated this morning. I’d say MI goes for Biden at this point.

  17. Ilhan Omar being the exception that proves the rule.

    Well if not Somalis there are plenty of other demorat voters to be imported as with the RoP over here. Same issue.

  18. Dennis, Clear-Eyed As Always

    PJF –

    I have yet to see the Trump Campaign and/or RNC make a formal allegation of fraud. When either of them does, I will take notice.

    What I am not going to do is buy into the musings of Some Guy On Twitter I Don’t Know.

    If you want to go full tilt Ecks on us, be my guest. I’ll pass.

  19. Dennis, Stickler For Detail

    Ilhan Omar being the exception that proves the rule.

    I don’t know much about the Somali community in Minneapolis. Different clans from the ones here in Ohio. They might have gone Democrat for all I know… To be clear, I was talking about the Somalis in Central Ohio only, as their community is the one I know.

  20. Stopped counting–who the fuck down tools on election night- and lo & behold just the right number of Biden votes there when they restarted. They stole it as you said they couldn’t.

  21. @PJF

    You’re not daft enough to fall for that, surely? The screenshot doesn’t prove anything other than – if it’s not manipulated – that someone entered the data into the map in a cack-handed way, adding all the Biden votes at once, then presumably adding the others later.

    It should take you less than thirty seconds of googling to figure out which county was reporting at that time. Of the 150k votes they reported, it was 10k Trump and 140k Biden. So not the ridiculous 100% Biden anomaly that was being talked up on that twitter thread. Moreover when you look up exactly what was being counted, you’ll realise why it broke that way – definitely wasn’t a set of votes that you’d expect would have gone 90% Trump, let’s put it that way.

    Here’s a hint for you if your google-fu is struggling – it’s Batman’s county in RoboCop’s hometown.

  22. Dennis, CPA to the Gods

    Stopped counting–who the fuck down tools on election night- and lo & behold just the right number of Biden votes there when they restarted. They stole it as you said they couldn’t.

    Ecks has gone full-tilt Ecks on us.

    I’m somewhat surprised it took this long.

  23. Dennis, Hot Rod Accountant of Central Ohio

    It should take you less than thirty seconds of googling to figure out which county was reporting at that time. Of the 150k votes they reported, it was 10k Trump and 140k Biden. So not the ridiculous 100% Biden anomaly that was being talked up on that twitter thread. Moreover when you look up exactly what was being counted, you’ll realise why it broke that way – definitely wasn’t a set of votes that you’d expect would have gone 90% Trump, let’s put it that way.

    Don’t suggest he apply meaningful research and analytical thinking to the issue, it will only confuse him.

  24. @Ecks

    “Stopped counting–who the fuck down tools on election night”

    You’re thinking like a Brit again. But we’ve got a system where the government literally changes overnight. Even here we have a few constituencies that usually don’t report til quite late the next day.

    In other countries which are not Britain, they don’t do things the British way because they are not British. Which might be a shame but it’s how it goes. There are plenty of places in the world where the ballots don’t get counted until later, especially if (unlike the UK) the entire government isn’t usually replaced within hours of the polls closing. In such places, the attitude seems to prevail of “what’s the rush?” Paying people to work through the night is likely costlier for one thing.

    Having said that, I don’t think it does any favours to America that so many important races have a pause in the count like this, nor the way that many state results often switch direction at the end because the final counts come from places very unlike the rest of the state. Even if the system works “properly” with no fraud whatsoever, it won’t restore any confidence in the system among people who do think it’s rigged or the vote stolen. I am far too distant from the problem to claim I know a superior solution, but I do wonder if getting more people to work on the urban counts (which are often slower in America) and releasing results at a sub-county level might reduce the chances of dodgy-looking sudden, large, late swings.

  25. Of course were Trump to lose by 48% to 52% he’d be quite within his rights to sit tight in the WH and use the courts to get the status quo enforced (ie him to REMAIN President), its the way democracy works, or has done since 2016…………..

  26. MBE-In how many prev elections did election workers stop counting? The billions America spends they cant afford a bit of overtime or enough for 2 shifts to keep going. Bollocks.

  27. @Ecks

    Do you always follow US elections or are you quite new to all this?

    Yes there are always some places with breaks in the counting. Final tally in some states didn’t come out for many days in 2016. Not always in places that turn out to matter, fortunately. Purely as a long-distance viewer I find it frustrating, must be even worse as a more personally invested participant. But while they could afford to do it differently, I’m afraid that they don’t.

    (As I understand it, it’s the states who have to bear the cost of running their presidential votes – feel free to correct me if I’m wrong – so provided everything is done and dusted by the “safe harbor” date, I don’t think there are any strong incentives for each state to spend extra cash counting all the ballots on the night. Particularly when so many will have to count late-arriving postal votes too, so the count on the night wouldn’t necessarily be final anyway.)

  28. Dennis, Mental Health Amateur

    MBE-In how many prev elections did election workers stop counting? The billions America spends they cant afford a bit of overtime or enough for 2 shifts to keep going. Bollocks.

    Congratulations, Ecks. You’re the Newmania of the 2020 USA election.

    I’m sure I speak for everyone here when I say I look forward to you making an even greater ass of yourself over the next four years than you’ve made of yourself over the past four.

  29. I’m hoping that Biden squeaks in, and then we’ve got four years of the Democrats infighting all that time as they try and find someone to blame for the lack of a landslide they were promised. They’ll pretty much destroy themselves and splinter off into too many groups to be useful. I doubt they’ll be able to have the concentration to do any foreign wars, unless they use one to create a distraction. And it’s better that people see what the left are really like than have it covered up by a compliant media. And also better that it happens in a country other than the one I’m living in. At least with the US, it’ll go into idle mode and the citizens will keep it ticking over for four years.

  30. @ Mr Ecks
    Who stops counting overnight? Well …
    Have you heard of “Na H-Eileanan an Iar”? used to be called “The Western Isles” when I was young. They count votes from Lewis and Harris on the night, then stop counting until the votes from the smaller islands arrive by boat.
    On the mainland we stop counting and send the workers home to bed if there are too many recounts as they are more likely to make mistakes if they are exhausted.

  31. Its occurred to me, as I’ve been thinking this afternoon about the US Presidential election, that the US voters have just about managed to select the least bad solution in all this, assuming Biden just wins, and the Senate stays Rep. They’re removed an incredibly divisive President, but replaced him with a lame duck President, both physically and politically, constrained by a Republican Senate and a conservative Supreme Court. They have reined in the worst excesses of the Democrats in the House by reducing their majority there too, signalling that more Leftward movement will not be accepted. The US should now settle into politics as usual, nothing much happening either way of note, because neither side has the power to break the deadlock. Which is how is should be when a country is as divided as the US is today. Scratch one up for the authors of the Constitution.

    Both parties have now been given a 4 years space to come up with better candidates – Biden will be lucky not to be dribbling into his soup by 2024 and Harris would have to have a personality change to make her electable.

  32. Dennis, Pointing Out The Obvious

    PJF –

    Your link to a Twitter User We Don’t Know isn’t working.

    Note the irony.

  33. I fear that if the BLM/Antifa/Democrats/woke win, in 4 years time there won’t be any pieces to pick up and rebuild.

  34. Dennis, Tiresome Denizen of Central Ohio

    It now appears that Republicans will retain control of the Senate. It also appears they have made some gains in the House of Representatives. If this is indeed the case, a Biden win does not produce a doomsday scenario. No radical legislation is going to get to the president’s desk, irrespective of who it is… Trump, Biden or Harris.

    Another thing to think about: There will be congressional elections in exactly two years. Those 2022 elections will favor the Republican Party simply because far more Democrat senators will be up for re-election. And given that the Democrats continue to bleed House seats, I suspect that enthusiasm for a hard left turn among House Democrats will be low.

    The other part of the equation is this: Even if Biden becomes president, that event will not stop (and in fact may accelerate) the coming war between the more centrist Democrats and the progressives over control of the Democrat Party apparatus.

  35. Dennis

    Thanks for all the rational input above. Pity Trump didn’t win, but tomorrow is another day.

    And this is the way it ends. Not with a bang but with a WI/MI/PA…

  36. Dennis, The Pauline Kael of Central Ohio

    And this is the way it ends. Not with a bang but with a WI/MI/PA…

    That is very, very good.

  37. Dennis, You Know... The Rational One

    The Trump Campaign has just asked for a recount in WI. Here is part of their statement:

    “There have been reports of irregularities in several Wisconsin counties which raise serious doubts about the validity of the results. The President is well within the threshold to request a recount and we will immediately do so.”

    And before Ecks and PJF soak their undies, note that the Trump Campaign is NOT alleging “irregularities”… it is stating that there have been “reports of irregularities”. Truth be told, they are within their rights (by WI law) to request a recount simply because of the margins involved, and it is obviously prudent to do so.

    If you wanna get paranoid, get paranoid… But I still don’t see a single hard fact substantiating fraud anywhere.

  38. Dennis, On The Front Lines Fightin' Them Chlorinated Chickens

    The Trump Campaign has filed suit in Michigan, claiming their poll observers have been denied access to view opening of ballots. The TC is asking for a halt in the tallying until access is given.

    Not good, but not – in and of itself – evidence of fraud.

  39. – evidence of fraud.

    Seems an odd hill to die on, but your choice.

    By the way, both of my entertainment links above work fine. One of the tweets has been “critiqued” by Twitter. Note the irony.

  40. . . . an incredibly divisive President . . .

    “Divisive” is leftie bullshit for “effective against our wishes”.

  41. The reason given for a 5% swing to Labor in the Qld election was that the white haired old wrinklies voted for Palaszczuk (not me obviously) because she’d protected them from the dread covid.

    Wonder if they’ll see it that way in the US.

    Dennis, Your Guide To The USA. Your young Somali makes me think of myself. After I foolishly voted to allow the Commonwealth rather than the states makes special laws for abos, I’ve never voted ‘yes’ in a referendum since.

  42. Dennis

    Rumours of a miscount in Arizona at the minute which I think would put Trump back in the frame. Of all the states that’s the one which I find most surprising, albeit Rumour has it a lot of refugees from California have fled to the relatively affordable climes in Arizona only to proceed to want to turn it into the place they left….

    Good news on the Senate/ House but Harris won’t see that as a barrier I fear.

    As for Murphy, how he has the front to call anyone else delusional is an interesting question…

  43. Seems like it’s all so close that the lawyers are going to be overall winners

    Lead is shortening in PA and today’s votes seem to be largely in favour of Biden (75/25) which if it’s sustained could flip the final result as there’s estimated million+ votes left to count. Would be surprised not to see some challenges there with such a large swing.

  44. ““Divisive” is leftie bullshit for “effective against our wishes”.”

    It is an element that for sure, but there is also something about Trump that triggers some fairly non-political people. I have friends here in the UK who are not that political but who are rabid anti-Trumpers. Its not so much the policies, yes there’s a few jokes about the Wall etc, but by and large its not what he’s done that they dislike, its him personally. He is a very abrasive character, and for many people politics is not a rational assessment of policies but more a ‘Do I like this person and can I imagine being their friend?’ sort of decision. I don’t ‘like’ Trump. I can’t imagine being friends with such a person. But I could vote for him as a politician because I can split the two roles. Many people can’t, or don’t.

    I think one irony is that Trump largely uses the same tricks that the Left have been using for years (outright lying, making a word mean just what you want it to mean, being prepared to argue one thing one day and the opposite another when it suits you) and thats what they don’t like. They see too much of themselves in him.

    The lesson that the Republicans should take from Trump is that the policies are popular. Wrap them up in a slightly more human person and you’re onto a winner. Its a pretty easy lesson, though of course I’m sure the Republicans will manage to f*ck it up somehow. The Democrats have the larger problem, they (just) got a virtual corpse over the line, mainly because he wasn’t orange. In a fight where the ideas are more at stake than the personalities then they face a far harder row to hoe. Their ideas, particularly the ones they want to enact aren’t that popular, outside the Far Left. All the Reps have to do is repackage the ideas in a more voter friendly candidate. The Dems have to find a whole new set of ideas, which I doubt they will be capable of doing. They only know one way of travel – further Left.

  45. 10-4, PJF. “They’re removed an incredibly divisive President” and Dennis’s “refusing to accept Trump as their president, then don’t start acting (and sounding) like them if Biden wins” doesn’t square. Right/conservative/Republicans need to quit their goody-two-shoes tactics and fight back. Some part of the electorate – perhaps a decisive part – sees no reason for voting Republican, they are just progressives light.

    Right/conservative/Republicans need to get mad, and get busy.

  46. “Right/conservative/Republicans need to get mad, and get busy.”

    Correct. But there’s a big difference between using their madness constructively and destructively. Doing what the Left do in opposition is the destructive route. They need to channel their energies into a) effectively opposing the Dems for the next 4 years and b) finding better candidates for 2024. If the Republicans lapse back into the ‘Goldman Sachs/Hedge Fund/large corporate type white men’ that they traditionally put up then they’ll lose again in 2024, and probably to a very Left wing Democrat. They need to find blue collar candidates. People who have a ‘story’ that the average Joe can relate to. The Right has to realise that it should be morphing into the party of the working man and woman, and let the Dems take Wall Street and the Big Cheeses. Trumpism is the perfect set of policies to attract those working class voters, they just need the candidate to best represent them.

  47. Whoever they pick next has to have the Trump attitude to the media and mud-slinging and not constantly apologise for the imagined slights of the left

  48. Jim: I think one irony is that Trump largely uses the same tricks that the Left have been using for years (outright lying, making a word mean just what you want it to mean, being prepared to argue one thing one day and the opposite another when it suits you) and thats what they don’t like. They see too much of themselves in him.

    The lesson that the Republicans should take from Trump is that the policies are popular. Wrap them up in a slightly more human person and you’re onto a winner.

    I couldn’t fault your initial analysis but I rather question whether you can wrap up the characteristics you identify in a “slightly more human person” and still retain the essential Trump characteristics. More precisely, once you shave away the quintessential Trumpian qualities of irreverence, abrasiveness and questionable sentence construction you’re back to central casting for a bland politico.

    I’m reminded of the Randy Newman song “Rednecks” and the line “He may be a fool but he’s our fool” which is certainly not meant to suggest that I think Trump is a fool: it’s that his supporters know him for what he is and believe that he’s on their side.

  49. I can already imagine the patronising tone from the left for the next 4 years acting as if they had a landslide win, needs someone to channel that and keep Trump supporters engaged rather than lapsing into despondency and feeling the system is rigged against them. Maybe we should replace systematic racism with systematic leftism.

    92% of Washington DC voted for Biden which shows the control over the levers of power and govt agencies the left has built into the system.

  50. The bright side is that there will probably continue to be a Republican Senate, a conservative Supreme Court, and there have been a lot of conservative judges appointed. That Trump lost is down to Trump.

    There will be no stacking of the Supreme Court; there will be no corporate or personal income tax increases, and there will be no wealth taxes. I’m sure they’ll be proposed but they won’t be passed. The border wall work will probably stop, but I’ve never been keen on that project anyway. Biden will probably go back into the Paris Climate Accord, but that’s not binding and may ultimately not mean all that much anyways. Perhaps some of the tariffs will be lifted. One thing’s for sure, no one will ever believe again that the media or the courts are impartial.

    All Biden has to do is stay alive for his term, as the notion of Harris as president is horrifying, but I really can’t see her winning on her own merits in 2024. There wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm for her among the Dems this year.

    It’s not the end of the world, and stalemated government is not a bad thing. If you want to end divisivness let the states be different. It’s the prospect of being “transformed” by the types of people attracted to DC that sends shudders down the spines of people who don’t want to be transformed.

  51. Dennis, He Who Isn’t Gonna Act Like A 3 Year Old

    Ok, Gamecock… what are you going to do?

    Other than type away madly at the site of a British writer living in Portugal, that is.

  52. . . . there is also something about Trump that triggers some fairly non-political people. I have friends here in the UK who are not that political but who are rabid anti-Trumpers.

    That’s because “fairly non-political people” receive their world view from some very political people – the media. Most everyday Brits thought George Bush and Ronald Reagan were repulsive, weird, moronic monsters. “Divisive” was a label attached to them, too.

  53. 118 year old votes in Michigan despite being dead since 1984.

    The SC should order a recount in all the states who stopped counting and the examination of each vote. The 118 yr old will be only one of a substantial cemetery of corpses who voted + illegals etc. While I have no doubt they cheated it MIGHT turn out that the Demo rats DID win for real. Even if so a proper recount AND ballot check will establish the truth once and for all and the matter would be certain. I suspect more than enough Demorat cheating will be found to ensure Trump wins.

    Dennis the Scotch/German ego to the side I see no point in falling low enough as to become a Facepainting whinger. But it needs to be acknowledged what an absolute tragedy the loss of USAs best President in 100 years would be .

    Hopefully all those claiming it wont be so bad are correct. But the left will give big tech scum free reign and Biden will be replaced by Kowmara Hate-Youse for sure. That commie bitch and her handlers are up for anything. OK she is useless but even minimal competence vs the largely useless Republican Party–now back with the usual suspects–like UK Torytrash–will be massively damaging to what is left of freedom.

    Finally anyone who votes cos they like or don’t like without valid reasons is a moron. How foolish to dispose of the best President USA was likely to get because his manner was “abrasive” vs a pedo crime family and a job-fucking commie cow who regards innocence of crime as irrelevant if guilt serves her career. There would seem little hope for such any such country and Chinese Communist evil seems set to rule 21st century and maybe forever given modern techno-tyranny.

    And despite all the Scotch German hot air –they have stolen the election as I said they would.

  54. They stole it, I don’t care what Dennis says. They’ve been stealing it since day one after the last election, wouldn’t surprise me if the backdated ballott forms were shipped from China.

    Well, the market stimulus would’ve come anyway and now they can start rebuilding and cleaning the democrat cities. A short pause and rest period then wokeness will return like you’ve never seen it before, the UK will adopt and copy all that and its mentality.

    In one or two years time Harris will be acting president.

  55. Hopefully all those claiming it wont be so bad are correct.

    They are correct in that a President Biden / Harris will be hamstrung on major domestic action. But lame duck presidents tend to become foreign policy presidents. What could go wrong?

  56. I wonder if Biden does scrape it, what will happen to all the rioting in leftist cities. Will it suddenly stop ? Will the rioters now expect things to go their way as “their” team are in power ? Will Biden be forced to crack down on them and by doing so, the far left of the Democratic party ?

    Interesting times.

  57. The rioting won’t stop but it will change tack. The left is blocked by the Senate and Supreme Court, so those will become the focus for the blackshirts.

  58. Dennis – your other problem is that it looks like both Georgia Senate seats will go to a run off. If democrats win that they have 48 seats plus the two leftist independents. A tie in the senate is resolved by the VP. So The democrats can still control the senate

  59. I’d say the right needs to have a good hard look at itself. The left own the media, academia & the streets. If it doesn’t either take some of that back or neutralise it things being pushed further & further leftwards will be inevitable. I’d start with the streets.

  60. @Jim
    I don’t ‘like’ Trump. I can’t imagine being friends with such a person. But I could vote for him as a politician because I can split the two roles. Many people can’t, or don’t.

    Me too. But it was voters who can’t see the difference who gave us 10 years of Blair.

  61. There’s a lot of “there’s no evidence for electoral fraud, so it’s outrageous for Trump to mention it” coming from the same people/organisations that have given us 4 years of “Russian collusion” based on no evidence whatsoever.

  62. There’s a lot of “there’s no evidence for electoral fraud, so it’s outrageous for Trump to mention it” coming from the same people/organisations (in chorus with Dennis) that have given us 4 years of “Russian collusion” based on no evidence whatsoever.

  63. Given 92% of Washington DC voted for Biden it shows who the members of the govt services support and Trumps accusations of being undermined govt agencies certainly seems likely.

  64. There obviously was a significant degree of electoral fuckery (a Democrat tradition going back to the time they rigged the 1960 election for JFK, if not earlier).

    Doesn’t matter though, unless Trump’s lawyers can pull something off in court. I don’t think they have a great chance of success, but we’ll see.

    Trump (pbuh) is legitimately a great man, but he’s just one man. Sooner or later (probably sooner) he’ll be out of office, and Americans will have to work out if it’s possible or even desirable to keep together a continental sized multiethnic empire that’s drowning in debt and split between rival factions who increasingly hate each other.

    Trump, contra his reputation, was just the boy with his finger in the dike (Hillary). A genuine moderate who did nothing that would’ve been out of place for a 90’s era Democrat, except for his mean words. Biden is just a drooling seatwarmer for a party that’s rapidly being taken over by its younger, browner, radical socialist wing. 1970’s Kremlinology is finally back.

    The future of American politics looks a lot like Latin America, with strutting strongmen, hilariously corrupt kleptocracies, and Telenovela dramas. If you thought Trump was a bit full on, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

  65. Dennis, Hot Rod Accountant of Central Ohio

    Dennis – your other problem is that it looks like both Georgia Senate seats will go to a run off. If democrats win that they have 48 seats plus the two leftist independents. A tie in the senate is resolved by the VP. So The democrats can still control the senate

    While the scenario you paint is possible, it would be far more likely that the Republicans win both seats than the Democrats. Perdue might still pull it out and avoid the runoff. If they both go to runoff I expect either a split or Republicans winning both. I have a very hard time seeing Warnock beating Loeffler. With the Loeffler/Collins split in the Republican race, it was Warnock’s to take… and he couldn’t break 35% of the vote.

  66. Dennis

    I certainly do not know what would happens in the run off elections that are looking likely and agree that what you say sounds plausible. Do the people of Georgia want to be the people who gave Biden full control? I’m sure a lot of them just want Trump to fuck off, so once he has they will move back towards the right.

    I would say with Warnock that there were quite a few other democrat candidate that split his potential vote from what I can see. Not as big as the republican split but still enough to rule him out.

    What is the record for the most amount of money spent per vote on an election? Could the Georgia run offs break it? They are unbelievably huge elections, which I think not every one has quite understood yet

  67. Dennis, Your Guide To The USA

    Let’s wait and see if Perdue can actually hit 50.0%. If he does, it all becomes academic.

    Given that GA seems a straight 50-50 between Trump and Biden, the idea of the Democrats sweeping the senate races seems unlikely. This is especially true because both Perdue and Loeffler are both incumbents and neither seems to be a problem candidate. I realize Warnock had competition from other Democrats, but none managed to garner 7% of the vote. That seems to point to Warnock being a weak candidate. The Loeffler/Collins fight was the centrist and Trump wings of the Republican Party. Warnock didn’t have that sort of ideological fight… he just couldn’t put away his opposition before the election. And the fact that he had so many Democrats running against him also points to weakness.

    I’m sure a ton of money will be poured into the race (or races), but as we have seen, dumping money into a senate race doesn’t seem to mean much.

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