Right question from Trevor Phillips

Poor Chinese and Indian children set a puzzle for educators by succeeding where better-off children fail. Why?

A likely answer being that race doesn’t matter but culture does….

29 thoughts on “Right question from Trevor Phillips”

  1. So Much For Subtlety

    Jamaicans are English by language, Protestant by religion, and all but British by culture.

    While the Chinese have recruited officials through an examination system for 2000 years.

    I would not write off genetics.

  2. They only set a puzzle when their theories meet reality and their theories are demonstrated to be a load of bollocks.

  3. Being poor has a way of making an education seem valuable – but of real subjects, not woke & grievance studies.

  4. The education industry collects and collects vast amounts of data on race. When I asked if anyone had ever tried to measure school attainment against other factors, e.g. how many hours a day the telly was on, whether a quiet time was observed in term time, etc I was met with blank looks. How could anyone think that was relevant?

  5. “I would not write off genetics.”

    I’ve never met a black programmer who came via the Caribbean, or from the United States. The ones I’ve worked with all came direct from Africa (whether they came over from Nigeria and Kenya, or their parents did).

    And this fact has fascinated me for years. 25 years ago I might have thought racists, expensive equipment. But a basic PC is dirt cheap now.

  6. Nobody approaches this problem with intent to find out the truth but only to support their prejudices.

    Or any other problem, really.

  7. Reminds of the largely ignored finding of Professor Gregory Clark explaining why incomes and current educational achievement in the North of England is lower than in the South. Sorting by IQ. People were initially attracted to the north because there were lots of low skilled jobs that needed filling. When these jobs turned out to be dangerous, the aspirational parents told their kids they weren’t following themselves into the mines/mills/shipyards and the brainy young ‘uns got good quals and migrated elsewhere.
    I suspect alas that those who avoided capture by the enslavers in West Africa during the dark times of the Colstons were higher IQ than those who were captured and selected for their brawn and put on the boats to the Caribbean.
    And I’m a black (1/2) northerner. And rather not happy that a white southerner couldn’t say these things in polite company.

  8. “A likely answer being that race doesn’t matter but culture does…”

    There are five races, those that evolved in Africa, Eurasia, Oceania, East Asia and America.[1] The races evolved different average IQs: Africa 71, Eurasia 100, Oceania 62, East Asia 105, America 86.[2] IQ differences between races are heritable.[3]
    [1] https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2006.00287.x
    [2] https://www.washsummit.com/product/race-differences-in-intelligence/
    [3] https://doi.org/10.1037/1076-8971.11.2.235

    Cultures are in part racial constructs; and cultures exert selection pressures on those born into them. So a degenerate race will produce a degenerate culture; and a degenerate culture will produce a degenerate race.

  9. I suspect it’s a combination of motivation and opportunity. If you’re really poor, and there’s a cultural approval of aspiration, you’re going to be *really* heavily motivated to do better. On the flip side, I’ve seen a lot of cases of 2nd generation of successful immigrants flop out of school because they’re not motivated in the way their parents were – life is good enough already, why struggle for something better.

    If your local environment (school quality, support of two parents and maybe extended family) isn’t supportive, though, it matters little how much you *want* to better yourself, since you’re trying to climb Everest barefoot.

    I’m astonished [not really] that proponents of greater equity like Kammie Harris aren’t talking about fixing the piss-poor schools that poor inner-city kids are forced to attend. Fix that, and you’ve got opportunity.

  10. ‘I’m astonished [not really] that proponents of greater equity like Kammie Harris aren’t talking about fixing the piss-poor schools that poor inner-city kids are forced to attend. Fix that, and you’ve got opportunity.”

    But by your own reasoning above, that’s approaching the problem from the wrong end. You could triple the funding and try to make the schools the best in the area, but you’ll still have shit outcomes if the home environment is shit. Crucially, that’s true whatever the particular genetic make up of that family.

    However, to tackle THAT problem involves tackling cultural shibboleths.

  11. @Pedant-General, Is this the correct use of Shibboleth? I thought it was some kind of password, emanating from the Tribes of Israel. Pedantry, I know.

  12. @David – it has been proven in hundreds of studies in both the UK, USA and many other places that active biological father makes a huge difference – where as any mother figure works.

    They have even tested as step farther as active male figure and the none biological kids do worse than the biological ones…

    Some say it’s because males care less for others kids and only like their own where women general care for all kids… Sounds very reasonable if you think about other mammals – generally the women all help and the males kill what isn’t theirs!

  13. ‘A likely answer being that race doesn’t matter but lack of culture does….’

    Fixed it.

    ‘I’m astonished [not really] that proponents of greater equity like Kammie Harris aren’t talking about fixing the piss-poor schools that poor inner-city kids are forced to attend.’

    But, Hopper, these ARE the fixed schools. 50 years of Democrats ‘fixing’ them got us to here.

  14. Bloke in North Dorset

    BiC,

    I’m not sure about that, there’s a reason the wicked step-mother trope exists. Throughout the ages women have been known to push their own children forward and try to hold back, to the extent of having them killed, when there’s power at stake.

  15. T-P-G: fair point, it’s a necessary but clearly not sufficient condition.

    Gamecock: indeed, and apparently “fixed” in the veterinary sense. Wonder if Miss Snuffy could get any traction over here? I’m guessing not, the unions wouldn’t stand for another school showing them up.

  16. If people are taught that they are oppressed they will see no point in personal effort and will attribute whatever goes wrong in their lives to the designated oppressor, be that the evil capitalist or the white man.
    Teaching this stuff is a highly effective means of keeping a section of the population down.

  17. So Much For Subtlety

    Pat November 3, 2020 at 9:26 am – “If people are taught that they are oppressed they will see no point in personal effort and will attribute whatever goes wrong in their lives to the designated oppressor, be that the evil capitalist or the white man.”

    That is why the Jews have always been so poor.

  18. “it has been proven in hundreds of studies …”: probably not. They presumably weren’t controlled experiments but just correlations of piles of observations. There are cases well known in medicine, for example, where observational studies led to substantial changes in medical advice, only for controlled trials to show that that medical advice had been deadly.

  19. ….Too much drinking and partying on the part of white kids? Seriously. No one says it but it’s as simple as that.

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