An answer presents itself

But that point is likely to be a long way off, and in the meantime, Brexiteers have to spell out exactly what they plan to do with their newfound sovereignty.

Winning it back is one thing; using it effectively within the parameters of a country that politically is not yet ready for the monetary and fiscal disciplines of a European version of Singapore is quite another. We await the groundbreaking agenda with bated breath. It had better be good.

We should do the work to be able to be Singapore on Thames. A place that’s richer, growing faster, with a better health care system and which has also solved its housing problem. Whats not to like?

48 thoughts on “An answer presents itself”

  1. The exact opposite. Let’s avoid the perpetual framing of things by In versus Out. That’s over and done. Yes – you’ve got the freedom, yes use it, yes propose stuff, deliver stuff, put yourself forward on your record of delivery. That’ll be in everyone’s minds when we make our mark next time around. but you ain’t got to justify your independence.

  2. Off topic. What is even more irritating than the words “educate yourself”?

    “thank you for educating me on this”.

  3. What’s not to like? To start with, inequality, racism, patriarchy, toxic masculinity, transphobia, patriotism, slave history, colonialism, capitalism, inequality, conservatism, free markets and inequality.

  4. Johnson is greenfreak BlueMarxist shite who already has a very nasty package of econ ruin coming our way once Spewknack’s funny money cant cover it any longer.

    Anyone expecting any Cowperthwaite-like behaviour from Blowjob–or any of his junta–is tripping.

  5. The exact opposite. Let’s avoid the perpetual framing of things by In versus Out.

    I disagree. We should wipe the fucking remoaners’ noses in our newly regained freedom and independence at every opportunity.

  6. This ain’t going to happen. I don’t believe that even the government and the party want it. The idea of “welfare state” has penetrated very deep. I suspect that 95% of any opportunities that brexit might bring are going to be wasted.

  7. Surely the real answer is that we will enjoy the crumbling of the EU! How long will Hungary and Poland stay? When will Greece go bankrupt? Without the UK contributions, how long can France support its agriculture. As for Bulgaria, Romania etc…. Any thoughts?

  8. BIW- well that way you permanently have a thing called remoan that people can and so will subscribe to. With that dichotomy set up just with the normal ebb and flow of politics its a matter of time before at some point that faction’ll find themselves in office. Far better to put it down as a non issue so Leftish peeps feel free to propose non EU approved solutions (pax Tim, ok trade-offs) when they’re in office Rightish peeps ditto. Before you know it, a few cylces in and the divergence is enough to make it far bigger a deal to re-enter than it was to leave.

  9. Diogenes,
    Yes, it remains to been seen how the “deal” works out but we’ve nailed the lid shut on the “ever closer union” nonsense. It’ll start falling apart soon.

    Personally, I’m waiting for Ireland to join the Sterling area.

  10. Brexiteers have to spell out exactly what they plan to do with their newfound sovereignty.

    We’ll do what the fuck we like. That was the whole point of the exercise. These pricks still have no idea, do they?

  11. Far better to put it down as a non issue so Leftish peeps feel free to propose non EU approved solutions (pax Tim, ok trade-offs) when they’re in office

    That’s fine if you want peace and harmony.

    Me, I want my enemies to know they’ve been crushed; to continue to see them driven before me; and long may I hear the lamentations of their crowd-funding lawyers.

  12. View from solent. Well aren’t IOW and Sg comparable sizes? Singapore split from a bigger country. err that’s it really. Stems from the fact that low reg free market successful examples are island city states.

  13. The very idea that Brexiteers owe anyone a policy. We were not a party (even though there was one), we are not a government.

    Remoaners now should be called rejoiners and are free to campaign for that. They would have to quantify the benefits of letting unelected foreigners run our country. Which they were never made to before.

  14. Bloke in North Dorset

    Its not about what politicians do and don’t do with that sovereignty because its not theirs, its ours. Its about accountability and them answering to us about what they do and don’t do and not hiding behind a bureaucratic organisation that allows them to ignore our wishes.

  15. Remoaners now should be called rejoiners and are free to campaign for that. They would have to quantify the benefits of letting unelected foreigners run our country. Which they were never made to before.

    Quite, because we know full well that lots of the Euro elite think the UK will fail outside the EU and come crawling back. As for the Remoaners, I don’t want them to be silent. I want them to be wailing and gnashing their teeth while doing the country down ala “Despite BRExit”. I want them to recreate the same attitude of Britain in Decline that Labour did during the 3 Tory Governments of the 1960’s and 1980’s, because that way they can gradually diminish into well deserved irrelevance.

    I also want British revolutionaries like Nigel Farrage to keep pushing against the liberal platitudes of the elite like letting the BBC continue to operate despite its EU treachery.

    The revolution is not over. It has only just begun.

  16. Bloke in North Dorset

    It strikes me that after 30 years of the EU tearing the Conservative Party apart its going to be Labour’s turn for the foreseeable future.

    Apart from most of the Conservative Party remainers grudgingly accepting that its over, they know which side their bread is buttered on and they need to keep the Red Wall on side.

    Labour remainers, on the other hand, seems to have decided that the war still goes on and look like they will continue to push the party towards ever closer union with hints at rejoining. They won’t be able to help themselves and will continue to sneer at the Red Wall Brexit voters.

  17. Conan the Libertarian

    Brexiteers have to spell out exactly what they plan to do with their newfound sovereignty.

    Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their transwomen.

  18. Labour remainers, on the other hand, seems to have decided that the war still goes on and look like they will continue to push the party towards ever closer union with hints at rejoining. They won’t be able to help themselves and will continue to sneer at the Red Wall Brexit voters.

    Great. I hope they do push the no-BRExit / Rejoin EU argument to the fullest, since that will gold plate the Red Wall and add lots more constituencies to the Tories tally come 2024. Not that I like the Tories or BoJo, but the extermination of Labour as a political force is worth the cost.

    Sure, Sir Keir Hardie Starmer is trying to play the pragmatism card, but it’s a bit like locking the door after the horse has bolted. We spent most of the period between the EU Referendum and his election as leader watching Starmer try to ride roughshod over the results of the referendum by any means possible. To say this twit is tainted by his actions (and those prior actions as Director of Public Prosecutions) is an understatement. He’s yet another interim leader of the opposition who can neither lead nor effectively oppose. I’ll be surprised if he lasts another year before being ousted.

  19. Singapore on Thames? Dream on.
    Gas Boilers: To be banned.
    Cars that work: To be banned.
    Food that’s edible & nutritious: To be banned (or atleast, discounts & promotions forbidden, and increasingly corrupted with mandatory additives e.g. folic acid)
    Power showers: To be banned.
    WC cisterns that flush properly: Already banned.
    People that are reluctant to take eexperimental vaccione that’s never been tested: To become unpeople.

    Oh yes, freedom.

  20. Diogenes: The EU will eventually fail but I don’t think it is currently such a rickety Jenga pile that us now being out will start the collapse. I will enjoy the popcorn watching them stagger from crisis to crisis though via sclerotic bureaucracy.

  21. Tim, exactly. The Red Wall will be lost to the climate change nonsense if it continues. My WC cistern is a large one made by Caradon England. My continental visitors are always mesmerised by it. One lever and about 18 litres at one go.

  22. “within the parameters of ”

    This use always implies to me that the writer is none too clear on what a parameter is. But it sounds like perimeter so it’s OK to be within it.

  23. Bloke in North Dorset

    Singapore is renowned for its petty regulations that control everyday life cf the chewing gum ban.

    When I hear Singapore on Thames I think of the patronising government of Singapore and how bad our politicians would be given that opportunity.

  24. Just to demonstrate the levels of nastiness out there in Remain-land , there’s an article in today’s Times about 90% of the A380 fleet being grounded by Covid restrictions (behind paywall, natch), and Airbus may cease production. Here’s one of the more extreme comments:

    Benjamin: A good opportunity for Airbus to closedown the Welsh factory and bring all production into the EU.
    The people working in the factory will finally get what they voted for

    CM (for it is he):Stupid, nasty comment, from a stupid, nasty person.

    Benjamin: Truth hurts doesn’t it?

    Why should Airbus continue with the extra costs of transporting aircraft wings from Wales to Toulouse?

    As for setting up a new factory Airbus will have maybe 5 years before airlines begin to order planes in any quantity, until then you can keep the factory open in Wales to fill any orders.

    Nobody knows what the future holds but if you look at it purely on a business perspective what I say is perfectly logical.

    CM: Truth? You wouldn’t know the truth if it sat on you. FYI Broughton makes all the wings for Airbus, including the A320neo and A350.
    https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/how-is-an-aircraft-built/production.html
    A380 production was almost certain to end soon, even without Covid forcing Airbus’s hand.

    Your ignorance and stupidity may be forgiven, but your arrogant cackling at the thought that thousands might lose their jobs, just because you lost a democratic vote four years ago, marks you out as a thoroughly nasty-minded individual, even by the high standards set by the rest of the never-Leave brigade.

  25. Speaking as a selfish sod, what actual benefits have I gained in exchange for my automatic freedom to live, work, retire etc in 27 different countries?

    Would anyone care to enlighten me with some specific examples, because I have yet to see anything concrete and it has been four years now.

  26. @BiND “Singapore is renowned for its petty regulations that control everyday life cf the chewing gum ban.”

    To be fair, this came in when I worked there, after a long battle to get the local oicks from dropping used gum on the pavements, in the subway carriages, everywhere. Persuasion unsuccessful, so law used – and enforced – and effective.
    They dont have many dopeheads either, or everyday stabbings of the UK variety.
    And a party-going lass who worked for the same company could go out at night and return home in the dark without being molested, or worse.
    Much to admire, though nowhere’s grit-free.

  27. @ Bill G
    As exit only takes place on Friday, your verb is in the wrong tense. To make a sentence that makes sense you need to change from the perfect tense to the future tense.
    Answer would then be cheaper food, notably fish’n’chips which was food for the poor when I was young and now costs more than an equal weight, let alone portion, of steak.

  28. @Bill G
    Here’s an example. Not the best, not the only, but you asked for an example.
    The tampon tax.
    All UK political parties agree that feminine hygiene products should be VAT free. There is no contention about it. This has been agreed position for many years.
    Makes no difference whatsoever.
    EU position is VAT, once levied, can only ever go up, never down or out.
    So it doesnt matter who you vote for, or what they say, the position is fixed. You will obey!

    Except now, VAT, rates, scope, everything, is a matter for UK parliament(s) to be selected by UK voters.

    Whether you support or oppose this specific item’s VAT rate is not the point. The point is you now get to choose, via voting.

    As I said, just a single example.
    Another: wood working companies could now, potentially, be allowed to burn their offcuts in their heating, as they used to, before EU Waste Directive ‘stove’ in a rib or two with a jackboot.

  29. @BillG: what’s in it for you?
    a) your share of the £. 20 billion a year we won’t be paying in EU membership fees.
    b) the ability to buy goods from outside the EU without EU tariffs designed to protect German manufacturers and French farmers that currently cost us £20 billion a year,
    c) more accountable democracy.

  30. How about Hong Kong on the Thames (pre-anschluss version)? Economically free, unable to vote in national elections, controlled by a far off government politically hostile to the city government.

  31. @BillG
    Not sure where your 27 number is from. Subtract RoI but add Nor, Lie, Ice then I think the number you lose automatic entitlement to do those things is 29. So from Friday you get the same rights as say a Canadian. Ask nicely, show them your skills, fill in forms and pay the fee if any, indicate a wish to integrate and you’ll be fine. Pollok type places excepted.
    Surely you are not really in favour of centralised landowner subsidies and a centralised to Brussels convergence system based on handouts to capitalists who have already made it.
    The UK is capable of equal stupidity, but if we realise it we don’t have to hire lobbyists to petition 27 other places to change their regulations at the same time or hide behind EU rules if we can change them anyway.

  32. Those people whining about how the UK would be bad to become Singapore-on-Thames are big city dwellers who would far rather live in Singapore than in Halifax.

  33. @bloke on the A303

    Your point 2): I had a quick go-ogle and in 2002 I think 54% of exports went to the EU while in 2019 it was 43%. A day from now we will no longer a captive market for them. What will that be in 5 or 10 years, and what markets are there for the EU to make up for the loss of this one?

    This is the real blow and we have to do nothing except trade.

  34. Those people whining about how the UK would be bad to become Singapore-on-Thames are big city dwellers who would far rather live in Singapore than in Halifax.

    As a former resident of Halifax I would have to disagree. I found Singapore a much nicer place than Halifax. However, the proposition of Singapore-on-Thames is rather undermined by the actions of the current Mayor of London who seems intent on wrecking the place before he is ousted one year later than he should have been thanks to BoJo and his COVID-19 related reprieve.

    Then again Singapore itself was the dream of Lee Kwan Yew and has been going decidedly downhill since his death. They’ll be reuniting with Malaysia again at this rate.

  35. @Mark about your stat of 54% going to the EU. A lot of that was going to Rotterdam to then get forwarded on to the rest of the world.

  36. Then again Singapore itself was the dream of Lee Kwan Yew and has been going decidedly downhill since his death. They’ll be reuniting with Malaysia again at this rate.

    Unification with Malaya being Lee Kuan Yew’s earlier dream. A clever but odd character, people tend to think Harry was playing 4D chess all along whereas he was, like the rest of us, just forming his opinions as he was carried by the times. Politically leftie early on, conservative later.

    Not sure by what measure Singapore is going downhill.

  37. @Mark: My point 2) was about imports from the EU. At present we import £250 billion or so of goods, a lot of it being food, from the EU at prices that are substantially higher than world prices, because they are protected from competition by EU external tariffs. Outside the EU we can buy Uruguayan beef for 30% less and Chinese solar panels for 40% less than EU prices.

  38. @Bloke on the A303

    Absolutely!

    This is a non-trivial issue for them going forward and I suspect (hope) that it will manifest itself from next year. My sympathy can be expressed in complex numbers.

  39. Bloke in North Dorset

    Ha ha, thanks A303, you’ve just made me realise …..

    Before Christmas I ordered Avery expensive piece of equipment, several hundred pounds, and paid by CC. The invoice came in at a lot less. It puzzled me but I wasn’t going to argue, we’re talking £100+.

    I thought it must be the price for the new year or something and their website hadn’t been updated, but when I checked just now it’s at the higher price still.

    My hope is that it’s being imported from a country that we’ve already done a trade deal with but they’ve got to show it at the EU tariffed price until midnight. When I checked the discount is exactly 20%.

    Or maybe I’ll get a VAT bill later (:

  40. Bloke: If it’s less than £135 (ish) it’s free of import VAT. (I think)

    But yes, the government have used their freedom from the EU to create a more complex VAT regime than the one that caused my brother to decide it wasn’t worth while selling cut flowers in his gre’en gr’ocers’ ‘cos of the VAT mess it made.

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