Because they’re incompetent fuckwitsFebruary 25, 2021 Tim WorstallEuropean Union47 CommentsWhy is the EU running into so many difficulties with its Covid vaccine campaign? Leo Cendrowicz previousStrange place to find long lasting woodnextTsk, silly 47 thoughts on “Because they’re incompetent fuckwits” Andrew C February 25, 2021 at 9:38 am Talking of Covid, strange question being asked by the BBC “Is Covid at risk of becoming a disease of the poor?” Article goes on to discuss poor take-up of vaccines in an area which is poor but also heavily populated by a Pakistani community. Easy enough to answer the BBC’s question. What’s the take-up like for the vaccine in a poor area which is predominantly white? If the take-up is high, then poverty would seem to have nothing to do with it. Boganboy February 25, 2021 at 10:07 am Given the mad panic about covid, and the endless lockdowns, it’s not surprising that there’s a certain scepticism about government health decrees. Andrew C February 25, 2021 at 10:20 am Personally I think it’s culturally inappropriate to force our modern western medicine on communities who might believe that sacrificing a goat, praying to their God or mumbling incantations whilst dancing around on one leg has the same efficacy as a vaccine. Let them get on with it. decnine February 25, 2021 at 10:29 am “Is Covid at risk of becoming a disease of the poor?” The BBC, in its relentless search for crumbs of discomfort, interviewed the Mayor of Newham this morning. The lady mayor (surprisingly) accepted that there is a degree of vaccine “hesitancy” among some Newham residents. The remedy proposed is to make vaccine delivery per person as expensive as possible by taking it door-to-door to encourage the “hesitant” to see the light. How is that not naked white supremacism? Mr Ecks February 25, 2021 at 10:32 am My guess is that they don’t believe the Govts claims of “no pig parts used in the making of this vaxcrap”. Still this is good. They wont be able to make second class citizens out of millions of vax refusniks if large numbers belong to the classes they have worked so hard to give special status to. john77 February 25, 2021 at 10:45 am You missed out the “arrogant, self-justifying” Starfish February 25, 2021 at 10:57 am Coming up on the outside is a new entrant for incompetent fuckwit award Yep the SNP Scotland’s New Problem, with the reverse Midas touch Surely people will be going to jail over this? Boris is strangely quiet, I guess he’s following the time honoured maxim of never interrupting an enemy when they are making a mistake They are beginning to make the EU look competent (maybe that’s the plan?) The Meissen Bison February 25, 2021 at 11:14 am Yes, why is the EU running into so many difficulties with its Covid vaccine campaign? This will not be because the EU is the EU and behaves like itself but for reasons such as fate, BIG Pharma and Brexit having been unkind. What is needed is more integration plus obstruction of trade with the UK. Theophrastus February 25, 2021 at 12:08 pm If the death rate rises among the vibrants and anti-vaxxer fuckwits, the population becomes whiter and brighter. bloke in spain February 25, 2021 at 12:18 pm Peripherally O/T I was reading this in Unherd this morning: https://unherd.com/2021/02/can-the-eu-survive-the-death-of-liberalism/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3 I can’t see what the writer describes as liberalism is actually liberal. What’s described as liberal is another word for repressive. The writer’s bleating about the populism & the rise of authoritarianism in Poland & Hungary. Yet the governments there are responding to the democratic choices of their electorates. Liberalism seems to defined according to the preferences of a self selecting bunch of self styled “liberals”. I think it comes down to this whole business of “rights”. I’ve written here before that I regard the whole concept of “rights” – except in their exclusively legal definition – as unmitigated bollocks. And sorry, that includes freedom of speech, life & liberty. The whole shooting match. There are only obligations. One person’s “rights” are other people’s obligations. The two are inseparable. And if you’re laying those obligations on people against their will, there’s nothing liberal at all about “rights”. That’s at the core the problem with the EU. A surfeit of obligations. Levelling up Club Med puts obligations on northern economies to pay for it. The German government’s “liberal” attitude to economic migrants lands Greeks with an obligation to feed & house them. Mr Ecks February 25, 2021 at 12:20 pm UK death rates are–like the Tory Party itself- bogus bullshit Theo and we antivax crowd are doing very well without any of the shite. Don’t you be so quick to crow until you’ve had jab2 and a few years to see . But empty crowing is mostly what you do regardless of reality so what the Hell. And Ian Reid February 25, 2021 at 12:23 pm Ecks has it. There is undoubtedly more sense being preached in a Bradford mosque than in Parliament. If they get away with forcing this untested biological agent on us for a relatively benign disease for which new treatments are being devised the whole time it won’t stop there. You will have basically handed over control of your bodies to the Government, and Big Pharma. Johnson has already talked about extra jabs for new variants. You can add jabs for flu to that and God knows what else, and if you don’t take them them, well as Ecks says you will effectively be cancelled. It’s clear to me this is the fight of our lives, one road leads to slavery, and the end of the enlightenment. May sound dramatic, but being forced to put stuff into your body is about as basic as it gets. bloke in spain February 25, 2021 at 12:42 pm @ Ecksy & Ian Reed Or in a nutshell, are you going to accept the obligation to safeguard other people’s health by hazarding your own. Or the compulsion to do so? bloke in spain February 25, 2021 at 12:56 pm And something I think we’ve seen right the way through Coronapanic. The expectation that other people should be obliged to modify their behaviour to protect the individual. Although, when it comes to the individual, the belief that personal liberty trumps obligations when you’re oh so important. We’ve seen this repeatedly. The MP’s breaching quarantine to to go off & fuck boyfriends & girlfriends. The media lockdown enthusiasts don’t think lockdown includes them partying with their mates. Although we’re all oh so important to ourselves, aren’t we? philip February 25, 2021 at 12:59 pm The free-rider problem. If you think the disease is dangerous but you don’t trust the vaccine you hope everyone else gets vaccinated and you benefit from the herd immunity at no risk. We saw this with the Wakefield bollocks. Mothers got hysterical about the MMR, but by and large it didn’t matter except in leafy middle class areas. The herd immunity threshold for measles is high, 90%+. It’s likely the threshold for covid is lower. If it’s as low as 60% it makes sense to hang back. Unless you live in a racial / ethnic enclave (a ghetto). Ian Reid February 25, 2021 at 1:25 pm Philip the MMR vaccine situation and this are not comparable. Though I have no evidence to back this up we can be pretty sure that the MMR vaccine wasn’t developed in a rush, and went through full clinical trials before being offered to the general population. But in both cases if you’re concerned about the risk of the disease you have the option to take the vaccine. In otherwords the outcome is in your hands. Ljh February 25, 2021 at 1:32 pm If the UK were seriously concerned about the health of the population, they’d have pushed weight loss, vit D and Zn++ supplements instead of lockdowns, masks and vaccines. Bloke in North Dorset February 25, 2021 at 2:24 pm @Ian Reid, Sort of. With measles the aim is to get the vaccination rate to herd immunity to protect those that can’t be vaccinated for whatever reason. As it’s mainly a childhood disease we treat it differently as we want children who can’t be vaccinated to get the benefit of education etc. We haven’t broached the subject of protecting those that can’t take the Covid vaccines, but we can tell those that don’t want it their on their own because they’re adults and we won’t be bending society to protect them. Mr Ecks February 25, 2021 at 2:29 pm Bis–if the “deadly pandemic” was a real danger outside the bullshite peddled by the state –I’d still take my chances and if need be fight it out with fuckwits who are willing to trade submission to tyranny for their worthless lives. But that is academic because if it were any real danger beyond bad flu Blojob would not have to be running a bogus PCR false positive casedemic to try and duck the 10000s of deaths his LD cowardice has caused I would not have objected to a properly developed vax–five years at least—in response to a real threat The crap now on offer? Any fans can inject my share into their eyeball. Theo maybe dumb enough to hope the Black Death 2 will see me and others off but he is deluded as ever in that vain fancy. I don’t owe my life to anybody so fuck “free riders”. In Jap POW camps they threatened to execute 10 inmates for every one who escaped. That would have just caused me to try and escape quicker. No one owes anything to mugs who go along with evil. Mr Ecks February 25, 2021 at 2:34 pm “we can tell those that don’t want it their on their own because they’re adults and we won’t be bending society to protect them.” Absolutely fine by me BiND. See if you can manage to leave us out of the economic ruin/enhanced state thievery and extra tyrannical oppression heading our way because most people seem to be mugs who believe anything political scum tell them. BlokeInThawedOutTejas February 25, 2021 at 3:07 pm It seems to me there’s as much likelihood of herd immunity for covid 19 as there is for flu. Which is, effectively, zero chance. The thing, like flu, mutates. So there’s no measles-like medical reason to have a covid-19 vaccine shot. The stuff will be around indefinitely. So you not having a jab will make little difference to others. Just like flu. All that of course is from the medical side. But soon you won’t be able to get into the UK without proof of immunisation; Europe and USA too. That’s a different discussion. But yes; the reason that the EU is having a problem is that they’re incompetent fuckwits. Balam February 25, 2021 at 3:34 pm Quite apart from vaccines, we’ve got a whole cohort of children who’s immune systems have been ‘coddled’ for over a year. When (if?!) things go back to normal, things could get ugly. Bloke in Wales February 25, 2021 at 3:38 pm When (if?!) things go back to normal, things could get ugly. If it does, you can add that to the costs of the lockdown hysteria. It won’t be accounted for that way, of course. philip February 25, 2021 at 3:53 pm Balam, BiW Quite so. The “hygiene hypothesis”. Allergies are becoming more common, after this there’ll be a plague of them. They’ll do anything they can to avoid the connection being made. I bet you won’t see the BBC asking “Are allergies a disease of the middle class?” Jack the dog February 25, 2021 at 5:06 pm I am not one generally to throw up my hands in despair, but I cannot see a way out of this. Vaccine passports are de facto inevitable. I need to be able to travel to work, and to see members of my family. The vaccine bollox is a heap of shite except to the vulnerable who we learn today develop fewer antibodies than the less vulnerable. ALmost as if their immune systems work less well. Whooo knooo. And BIS there is no evidence that receiving the vaccine reduces your contagiousness. So you can go and boil your head. Governments have taken an incredible stride towards the most extreme authoritarianism and the people are loving them for it. I can’t believe this love affair will last. Populations in the end see the light and sooner or later we can start hanging the bastards. But it’s gonna be a long old business, and I don’t honestly see how I will manage to resist taking the vaccine. Maybe I cna bribe my doctor to give me saline… In historic terms, we are in 1940; Al Alemain and Stalingrad look a long way away. And the fight is essentially the same one, and equally if not more important. BniC February 25, 2021 at 5:10 pm Also notice the change in language, early on it was worries about misinformation from “vaccine deniers”, with ethnic populations we have “vaccine hesitancy” and the article will add the word ‘understandable’ at some point without actually explaining anything beyond white people were horrible in the past so it’s ok not to trust their medicine now Theophrastus February 25, 2021 at 5:27 pm BiS Regarding your OT, I find myself in agreement with you for once. Sir Larry Siedentop’s article was very low-grade stuff. He’s a social liberal, like L T Hobhouse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism The problem with social liberalism is that it’s virtually indistinguishable from social democracy… The Meissen Bison February 25, 2021 at 6:10 pm JtD – Was Al Alemain related to Duane and Gregg at all? Theophrastus February 25, 2021 at 6:15 pm Jack the Dog “…there is no evidence that receiving the vaccine reduces your contagiousness.” Only that as vaccinations increase, deaths and cases are decreasing very rapidly. Philip “If you think the disease is dangerous but you don’t trust the vaccine you hope everyone else gets vaccinated and you benefit from the herd immunity at no risk.” Except that the more people who go unvaccinated, the less herd immunity there is, and so the more likely it is that new variants will emerge. This is the big worry about the EU’s incompetence over vaccination: it will leave a large reservoir of potential variants on the continent. Ecksy “I would not have objected to a properly developed vax–five years at least—in response to a real threat…” I suspect your IQ is only in double figures,but read the literature on the development of the Western vaccines. There’s no evidence that corners have been cut, and the science is rigorous. Obviously, as with ‘flu, C19 is not the Black Death, and most probably the lockdowns didn’t need to be so severe. But some measures were justified to prevent health services being swamped by hospitalisations. This is why we vaccinate c.25m each year against ‘flu….So health services don’t collapse, and you can still get your supply of anti-psychotics (though I think you need to up the dose!). Jim February 25, 2021 at 9:47 pm ” are you going to accept the obligation to safeguard other people’s health by hazarding your own. ” You do realise the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting, and passing on the virus? Ergo there is no herd immunity created by them (which would be created if we all caught the virus) so by not having the vaccine the only person you are endangering is yourself? A vulnerable person who cannot for some reason have the vaccine is as much at danger from a vaccinated person as a non-vaccinated one, if neither have had the actual virus and gained some true immunity. “Except that the more people who go unvaccinated, the less herd immunity there is, and so the more likely it is that new variants will emerge. ” Precisely the opposite. Because the vaccines do not create herd immunity, just make the symptoms less severe for the individual taking it, people are more likely to be out and about spreading the disease (as they don’t feel too bad), and also as the population becomes more vaccinated less controls would be placed on public behaviour. Thus meaning new variants will have a greater chance of spreading in a vaccinated population than a non-vaccinated one. Mr Ecks February 25, 2021 at 10:00 pm Take yr rigorously tested crap Theo and pile it on top of your “bulwark against Marxism” –you’ll need it after Reform smashes the BlueLabour vote. Meanwhile lets see if this link works–in case not I will try to copy some of the results of yr rigorously tested shite in action. http://vigiaccess.org/ This is a list of adverse drug reactions from “comirnaty” -trade name of Pfizer crap from WHODrug Monitoring search. Blood and lymphatic system disorders (6034) Cardiac disorders (4737) Congenital, familial and genetic disorders (11) Ear and labyrinth disorders (2323) Endocrine disorders (26) Eye disorders (3028) Gastrointestinal disorders (23648) General disorders and administration site conditions (67508) Hepatobiliary disorders (79) Immune system disorders (1643) Infections and infestations (4601) Injury, poisoning and procedural complications (1824) Investigations (7658) Metabolism and nutrition disorders (1680) Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders (32961) Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) (29) Nervous system disorders (44965) Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions (79) Product issues (61) Psychiatric disorders (3747) Renal and urinary disorders (494) Reproductive system and breast disorders (481) Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders (10163) Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders (13163) Social circumstances (434) Surgical and medical procedures (647) Vascular disorders (4696) CONTINENT NO AND % FIG Africa 257 0 Americas 18544 18 Asia 1305 1 Europe 81263 80 AGE GROUP DISTRIB Age group Count Percentage 0 – 27 days 68 0 28 days to 23 months 253 0 2 – 11 years 207 0 12 – 17 years 94 0 18 – 44 years 44757 44 45 – 64 years 37458 37 65 – 74 years 3600 4 ≥ 75 years 8751 9 Unknown 6181 6 Sex Count Percentage Female 77985 77 Male 21474 21 Unknown 1910 2 Chew on that smugster–not all oldsters either. Think it will leave us whiter or is it social hygene? Bloke in North Dorset February 25, 2021 at 10:17 pm “ Vaccine reduces spread risk even before 2nd shot, Israeli study indicates When people test COVID positive, viral loads are 4 times lower if they’re vaccinated, finds first-of-its-kind research; expert calls it ‘game-changer’ in pursuit of herd immunity” https://www.timesofisrael.com/vaccine-reduces-spread-risk-even-before-2nd-shot-israeli-study-suggests/ Nor zero, but will certainly put a dent in transmission if take up continues at current rates. BniC February 26, 2021 at 12:42 am Aren’t we forgetting that the Heath service would be at stress and full at this time of the year anyway Covid or no Covid. It’s the same every year bloke in spain February 26, 2021 at 12:53 am @Jack the dog “And BIS there is no evidence that receiving the vaccine reduces your contagiousness. So you can go and boil your head.” I simply observe how I’ve seen people behaving. It wouldn’t the least surprise me if the media opinion formers who are most enthusiastic about vaccination will themselves be avoiding the vaccine. Personally I know too little about the subject to have an opinion. But since I live in a heavily identified society – where you need an ID card for almost everything – if they make vaccination compulsory I won’t get the option. Alas the downside of living in forrin. PJF February 26, 2021 at 1:27 am Aren’t we forgetting that the Heath service would be at stress and full at this time of the year anyway Covid or no Covid. It’s the same every year Amazingly there is no flu this winter. Zero cases. Apparently, the masks, social-distancing and lockdowns that can’t stop Covid19 spreading are 100% effective against influenza strains. Funny that . . . Ummmm February 26, 2021 at 1:34 am Or alternatively you only find what you are looking/testing for Bloke in North Dorset February 26, 2021 at 6:41 am Amazingly there is no flu this winter. Zero cases. Apparently, the masks, social-distancing and lockdowns that can’t stop Covid19 spreading are 100% effective against influenza strains. Funny that . . . Its almost like they’re different diseases with different forms of transmission. Grikath February 26, 2021 at 7:42 am Well, not exactly.. Given that pre-CoMadness it was a Mortal Sin Against the Boss and the Company to call in sick with the Flu unless you nearly dropped down, the infection parameters when it comes to flu were close to literally deliberately spreading the disease amongst the population. The flu hasn’t disappeared…. There’s simply very few people spending time packed up in public transport/badly ventilated offices and meeting rooms/classes/lecture halls with people well into the infectuous stage of the flu. So the number of actual cases have dropped drastically. This is simply epidemiology 101. And what really helps is that, indeed, only CoVid is tested for… Coronaviruses are notorious for co-infection. And they have the exact same infection path as influenza. There’s no doubt a fair number of “CoVid cases” this winter that are also flu cases. The problem is there’s no proof-positive, as influenza isn’t tested for, while CoVid is.. The only indication there is, is that avian flu cases cropped up like clockwork this winter season, and no worse/less than any other year. So given the similarities in vectors “human” flu does its rounds as usual as well. It’s, as I stated above, just that we stopped “deliberately” doling it out like candy that it doesn’t goes around as much this year. Theophrastus February 26, 2021 at 8:03 am The imbecile known as Ecksy: The Vigiaccess data are, er, very raw. Search for the side-effects of aspirin or ibuprofen, and compare….I assume you won’t be taking either of those drugs in future… Jim: “…the vaccines do not create herd immunity, just make the symptoms less severe for the individual taking it… That’s simply not true. Some vaccinated individuals will get a mild form of C19 (though most won’t) and spread the disease, but they will be in a minority and vaccination will reduce the viral load they carry. Jim February 26, 2021 at 9:09 am “That’s simply not true. Some vaccinated individuals will get a mild form of C19 (though most won’t) and spread the disease, but they will be in a minority and vaccination will reduce the viral load they carry.” The evidence at hand so far (and thats pretty shaky) is that the best the 3 vaccines currently being used can reduce infection rates by is about 2/3rds. And considerable evidence that its less than that certain circumstance (the Oxford vaccine for example only manage a 4% reduction in infections after 2 full rate shots) Which means that at least one third of people will still catch and spread the virus, maybe considerably more. The idea that the vaccines will stop infections and onward transmission is just wrong. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210203-why-vaccinated-people-may-still-be-able-to-spread-covid-19 Mr Ecks February 26, 2021 at 10:24 am BiND–the difference between flu/c19 –if there be any–is minimal. And different means of transmission? Is Captain Kirk beaming c19 in then? All diseases get in the body by a very limited number of means. Yeah rabies/plague work by bites but I haven’t seen any posters warning about rats/fleas etc. C19 and flu are in same family and spread by same means. Otherwise why bother with the maskie ploy. Flu has been enlisted in Bogus Johnsons career saving capers. Added to what little C19 is left. The rest is PCR test false positives the doing the donkey work in keeping the casedemic con going. BiS–You have a choice. Leave Spain. Florida has Sunshine also. And Hispanics. Squeal on Theo–it is an “official” list.That sort of thing holds water with you normally–except when “rigorous science” gainsays you. Then its “raw data”. Doubtless I and ALL other anti-vaxers will die–but not from Blojob Bogus Johnson’s Bogus Pandemic. We will be here to vote the Tory Party to Hell. Ljh February 26, 2021 at 11:05 am A very interesting cost/benefit analysis of the vaccination program in Israel follows: https://mobile.twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1364976930781560833 Conclusion: it’s enormously expensive per life extended and the chief beneficiary is Pfizer. PJF February 26, 2021 at 12:07 pm Conclusion: it’s enormously expensive per life extended and the chief beneficiary is Pfizer. A lot less expensive, though, than economic shutdown. Vaccines are the route by which politicians can overcome the propaganda terror they’ve previously instilled in the population (which pays for everything). The chief beneficiaries are politicians. Bloke in Wales February 26, 2021 at 1:32 pm The chief beneficiaries are politicians. The benefit being, they get to walk away whistling from the wreckage they caused rather than end up swinging from lampposts. Jim February 26, 2021 at 1:44 pm “Vaccines are the route by which politicians can overcome the propaganda terror they’ve previously instilled in the population” If that were the case (and I assumed it was judging by the speed the vaccines were rushed through the regulatory system) then the politicians are doing a very good impression of people who neither want to give up the propaganda terror or the power it places in their hands. PF February 26, 2021 at 2:56 pm Theo, I did try entering Paracetamol and Ibuprofen onto that database, and looked at the total number of records (for comparison) and specifically over how many years. I’ve no informed comment, other than to note that – given the extent to which those two common drugs are taken throughout the world and over how many years – it might suggest that numerically there are multiple order of magnitude differences between those and the Covid drug that Ecks referenced? I tried other less popular drugs, for comparison, and there were suitably lower numbers (than Para/Ibup). Ie, the Covid drug numbers seem very high, especially given the minimal time period to date, but I repeat, that’s not an informed view wrt the site. Theophrastus February 27, 2021 at 5:04 pm PF Not sure what your point is. Mine is that a website that aggregates contra-indications is only a pointer to research, not evidence that a medicine is “unsafe”. Every medical intervention – even with proprietary over-the-counter drugs – carries a risk. The contra-indications of long-established remedies remain more or less static, while the contra-indications of new treatments soar. The night after I had the Pfizer jab, I vomited violently. I didn’t raise a yellow card because I had eaten shellfish for dinner… Leave a Reply Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.