No Love

Official figures tell the story: on average, about 1,060 women report a rape to the police in England and Wales each week. Only 40 of those rapes will lead to a prosecution, and about 27 will end in a conviction. More than 1,000 men a week are getting away with rape, in other words,

Not all reports of rapes are in fact rapes.

30 thoughts on “No Love”

  1. There’s a type of feminist apparently hell bent on persuading men that women are incapable of logic and proportion.

  2. Well, the best estimate we’ve got is that some 27 out of 1060 reports can be proven in court…..

  3. Assuming that those numbers are accurate, and that a goodly proportion of those reports were in fact actual “rapey-rapes”, then it does indicate that there’s a problem.

    I don’t know what the solution might be … “innocent til proven guilty”, “jury of my peers” etc should absolutely still all apply. But not having a solution doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge the problem.

  4. Assuming that those numbers are accurate, and that a goodly proportion of those reports were in fact actual “rapey-rapes”

    Bearing in mind the general clean-up rate for crime, we might well assume that Plod is as good at catching rapists as burglars, muggers etc. But we don’t know. We might also assume that bitches be cray-cray.

    It would be interesting to see a few examples of the alleged rapes and learn why they did not lead to a prosecution.

  5. “…then it does indicate that there’s a problem.”

    Yup. The problem is women going out in their underwear, getting falling down drunk and going home with strangers. The solution is Sharia. Can’t wait.

  6. ‘Rape and serious sexual assault are the only crimes where victims, not the likely perpetrators, are treated with suspicion’

    Try reporting an arson on your factory premises.

  7. Yep, RLJ.

    As for schools, co-educational schools are obviously a bad idea. They should be abolished immediately.

    Back to the future!!!

  8. Dennis, A Vast Reservior of Toxic Masculinity

    When public figures urge girls to report rape, they should be honest about the fact that they are directing victims into a completely broken system; rape has all but been decriminalised, encouraging a culture of impunity among perpetrators. Hardly any rapists end up in prison, so what do they have to fear?

    A series of remarkably fact-free assertions, with the last being obviously incorrect. The vast majority of those convicted of rape in a court of law go to prison.

  9. Might it be time to criminalise coition contrition?

    Incidentally haven’t feminists brought this largely on themselves? You would have to be mad to hold open a door for a woman or offer her your seat on public transport.

  10. I don’t buy the idea that all, or even most, of these unprosecuted reports can be dismissed as regret, mind-changing, vexation or other such sins by the victim.

    But even if so, if just 10% of those weekly reports were “proper” rapes then that’s 100 per week going unprosecuted.

    Since “proper” rape is right over toward the really serious end of the crime spectrum, up there with GBH and murder, then 100 per week is a pretty crap failure rate. 100 unresolved murders per week would exercise the mind somewhat, wouldn’t it?

    As I said before – I don’t have a clue about the solution, but I don’t think any solution will be found if we start by denying the problem. Doing so only yields the floor to the nutters who would do away with juries and presumption of innocence.

  11. There is no ‘solution’ when she says he raped her and he says he didn’t, and there are no witnesses, and that’s what most of these allegations are, Geoffers. (Actual stranger-rapes, where a bloke leaps out of a bush, are much, much easier to prosecute.)

    So. Who are you going to believe, because you have to pick one?

  12. @Geoffers – but what is the problem? Police resourcing? Fabricated accusations of rape? The CPS? The patriarchy?

    It’s no good saying: “We have a problem and we need to solve it,” when you don’t know what the problem is.

    Claiming the low conviction rate means thousands of rapists ‘must’ be going unpunished, without getting to the bottom of why, is exactly how we end up with demands to end trial by jury.

  13. “I don’t know what the solution might be … “innocent til proven guilty”, “jury of my peers” etc should absolutely still all apply. But not having a solution doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge the problem.”

    – Don’t go home alone with men you don’t intend to have sex with. If you want to just talk to a guy, do it in a bar.
    – Travel as pairs/groups.

    People need to get it into their thick fucking heads that the state is not your personal Spider-Man/Robocop who will solve every crime. Never has been. You have to take a self-centred approach to crime, which means you start from the POV that the state isn’t going to be there, and you make decisions based on that.

  14. The point you’re missing, Geoffers, is that the risk is part of the thrill. If mountaineers complained about falling off of mountains, or race car drivers about getting burned, you would be unimpressed. You engage in a high risk sport, sometimes you get hurt. Alternatively, you could get married and stay home with your husband and children.

  15. The simplest thing to do would be to publish details of all rape claims (anonymised and centrally collated to make identifying the complainants impossible), and the details of the investigation and any information thus gleaned, and let public opinion decide whether 1000 women per week are being raped and ignored, or not. If the cases were as clear cut as those protesting claim they are then we’d all come to the same conclusion as them, and demand action. If on the other hand there was a litany of morning after regrets, obvious false claims for reasons various, drunk encounters where neither party was compos mentis and determining anything is impossible and he said she said encounters that started out consensual but at some indeterminate point possibly changed then we could all forget about it all and the campaigners could go and find useful jobs to do, like cleaning toilets or looking after OAPs.

  16. Dennis, Understated As Always

    We live in a society where half the population faces an ever-present threat of sexual harassment and assault at school, at work and in our own homes. But the criminal justice system is so intent on protecting the interests of men and boys accused of rape, it no longer does its basic job of providing justice for victims.

    Another set of fact-free assertions.

    While your point is taken, Geoffers, one of the most obvious reasons the problem cannot be properly indentified, much less addressed, is that you have self-appointed “advocates” like Joan Smith who refuse to deal with the issue in a manner that would allow for proper identification of the problem, much less develop methodologies to deal with it.

    The response of denial in a natural one, given the rhetoric, hyperbole and fact-free opinions Smith uses to frame the issue. One could almost say that by her behavior, Joan Smith is more interested in obscuring the problem, and thereby perpetuating it, than in identifying and solving it. After all, there’s an excellent chance Smith has neither the intelligence nor the skill set to make her involvement in serious attempts to address the issue something anyone would want. She’s a journalist and an advocate. All that proves is she can run her mouth.

  17. When left-wingers constantly talk about “rape culture” and assert that “words are violence”, it’s easy to imagine that indoctrinated young women believe that any sexual encounter that they don’t initiate is “rape” – anything from being chatted-up, getting an unwelcome hug or a kiss or being groped is, by these women, considered “rape”. Some of these actions will, indeed, be criminal offences, but that does not make them rape under the law.

    Going to the 30 July article linked in the 30 March article, the guardian reports “Police recorded 55,130 rapes”. What that means is allegations of rape. In the same article it states that cases referred by the Police to the CPS had dropped which could be any of lack of evidence, lack of an identity for the alleged rapist, the prosecution of some other offence or that the allegation made was incorrect in law.

  18. “There is no ‘solution’ when she says he raped her and he says he didn’t, and there are no witnesses, and that’s what most of these allegations are, Geoffers.” Agreed, and that’s the problem right there.

    His word against hers, innocent until proven guilty, so no conviction is possible. In these cases the men who *are* guilty get off every time. And let’s not pretend that there are no such men or even that it’s possible to know what the proportionate split is. There could be few, there could be lots… hell, if we knew that then there wouldn’t be an issue anyway, would there?

    However many there are, those men are getting away with it because there’s no mechanism to nail them with.

    And yes, we can tell women to take the extra sensible precautions, but we can also bend minds to the task of trying to create a mechanism that would actually catch the bastards. Why wouldn’t we want to do that?

  19. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/901028/crime-outcomes-1920-hosb1720.pdf

    Table 2.2

    Rape
    Suspects charged 1.4%
    Evidential difficulties (Suspect found, victim supports action) 13.8%
    Evidential difficulties (Victim does not support action) 41%
    No suspect 7.7%
    Offences not yet assigned an outcome 33.4%

    The last category is the one that is an outlier relative to other offences. The median number of days taken to assign an outcome is 98 days or roughly 27% of a year. However, we can assume that most of these are then resolved in the same way which is to say that the proportion of each of the above categories rises by about half. (so the true charged rate is 2.1%) We dont know what is in the “victim does not support action”, but this is about 60% and the ones where the suspect is known and the victim wants to press charges is around 20%.

  20. So on these stats about two thirds of cases that make it to court actually result in a conviction

    The conviction rate in crown courts is around 80% across all crimes

    So it suggests that the CPS is applying some leeway already in rape cases

    I also assume in these stats there is at least an element of double counting as more than one female might make allegations against a man

  21. “And yes, we can tell women to take the extra sensible precautions, but we can also bend minds to the task of trying to create a mechanism that would actually catch the bastards. Why wouldn’t we want to do that?”

    We have bent our minds to this problem. DNA swabbing, DNA databases of criminals, CCTV cameras. People do think about these problems.

    But you have two people who were in a room together alone. No audio, no video, they seemed to be on good terms earlier in the evening. Is that sex or rape? That’s what a lot of rape accusations are now. And if you have an answer to that, please, share it, because I can’t see an answer.

    Which means that without being able to determine that, you’re down to self-protection strategies.

  22. Surely at least some of those 1,000 complaints will be from problematic women* or men who have some sort of protected status**, so the figure will be lower anyway.

    * Conservatives
    ** Popular left-wingers, BAME celebrities, etc.

  23. Didn’t one women’s group define rape as including a wife being tired but saying “I don’t really want to now, but ok then for a quiet life” when asked.

    As for victims not supporting % there’s plenty of women won’t support claims against violent partners to the point of refusing to give evidence etc not just refusing to press charges and logically some of those incidents will involve sex

  24. The general cleanup rate of *all* crime is around 8% of reported cases result in conviction. I found the stats the last time the screaming harpies were around, I’d have to dig them out again to remember the source.

  25. “However many there are, those men are getting away with it because there’s no mechanism to nail them with.”

    As said above DNA evidence etc exist. What else would you suggest? That isn’t Marxist feminist bullshit like re-signing a consent form every 30 seconds or less.

    We also know that there is much official leftist created malice. Such as that CPS cunt Saunders being allowed to retire quietly after being found out trying to jail several men for rape by supressing the evidence on her desk of their innocence. She should have been hit with a raft of “Conspiracy to pervert the course of Justice ” charges. But that would have got public interest perhaps.,

    Remember that any evidence of miscarriages of justice that might emerge are of NO consequence to Smith and her like. Her aim is solely to increase the war between the sexes to help break Western society in the cause of socialist evil. However loud the line of mock outrage the creature may project.

    Jim puts forward an interesting idea.

  26. Or Just 27 out of 1000 know what the law means by the crime of rape……

    I’m guessing that it’s the other figure 40 out of a 1000 know what the law means by the crime of rape, since the CPS is currently weeding out all of the cases of aren’t-rape-at-all along with (probably the vast majority) of he-said-she-said and other forms of “date rape” or “confused lack of consent”.

    As Geoffers was suggesting, I don’t think the vast majority of these unprosecuted cases ARE essentially “post-coital regret”, despite what the manosphere would want us to believe. However, without more detailed breakdown as to why the CPS refused to prosecute each case, it is difficult to draw any firm conclusions.

  27. A brief elaboration of a tube

    Acquaintance who’s a very senior copper explained during a chat that a significant number of allegations of rape aren’t made by the alleged victim, but by a friend on their behalf after the a.v. goes home completely wrecked with some random bloke. Next day, can’t remember a thing, no idea if sex took place, with or without a condom. Friend, all concerned, calls Plod and says the a.v. can’t recall giving consent. A.v., embarrassed by the whole thing and wondering what she’ll tell family and friends, becomes convinced that yes, it must have been that she was raped.

    Another significant number of allegations fail when the a.v.’s text and media records are viewed.

    If a male is accused of rape then the police will, acquaintance said, visit his home and work and seize all electronic devices storing data. No idea how it’s done and acquaintance was slightly evasive on the subject but he seemed to suggest that passworded or no, the content of your phone can be stripped out non-destructively in a matter of minutes. Whether it can be read is presumably another matter, but all the location data and call history is available. And of course now your friends and neighbours and employer are all in on the fact that you’re – allegedly – a rapist. Families destroyed, probably job loss – if you’re guilty of rape, that’s one thing. If you’re not but just had a bit of a fumble with a drunk, the course of the rest of your life has been changed with or without a trial. To answer the writer’s question about what men have to fear – that’s it, and all from mere allegation of rape.

  28. Clearly even the Telegraph had had enough of Smith, so she has gravitated to what I would have presumed is her natural home anyway. You can’t reason with her. In her mind even an accusation is automatically true and we should throw away concepts like ‘innocent until proven guilty’. Not worth giving the time of day frankly. I don’t hold much candle for the CPS but if they’re annoying someone as deranged as this frankly they must be doing something right.

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