Can we have bids for the NHS please?

Boris Johnson’s government has been accused of corruption, privatising the NHS by stealth, operating a “chumocracy” and mishandling the pandemic and climate crisis, by Sir David King, a former government chief scientist.

“I am extremely worried about the handling of the coronavirus pandemic, about the processes by which public money has been distributed to private sector companies without due process,” he told the Guardian in an interview. “It really smells of corruption.”

Who in buggery would buy it?

Given that, you know, it loses £150 billion a year?

Now, the idea that someone should be paid to do the operations is out there. But why is paying Circle or someone to do a hip replacement rather than some NHS team to do it selling off the NHS? It’s still health care treatment free at the point of use…..

26 thoughts on “Can we have bids for the NHS please?”

  1. I suppose it’s possible that a private company would make a worse mess of providing healthcare than the NHS, but I find it hard to imagine.

  2. Currently I have three rellies – my father and two uncles – waiting for MRIs for a stroke, confirmed prostate cancer (to assess spread) and a really bad back problem. The uncle with the cancer had his first appointment in March 2020. His son (a hospital doctor) can’t even pull any strings, because the place is run by and for the benefit of bureaucrats. I wish some fucker would buy it, if only to sack all those cunts.

  3. @Interested: I’m with you, having dealt with (actually, still dealing with) my local hospital’s unbelievable sloth and basic lack of competence over a biopsy for my mother – still not carried out – the thought of them out on the pavement with their belongings in a cardboard box gives me inordinate pleasure.

  4. Bloke in North Dorset

    “ I suppose it’s possible that a private company would make a worse mess of providing healthcare than the NHS, but I find it hard to imagine.”

    The left don’t care about the quality of service they might provide, their objection is that a private company might make a PROFIT!

    It goes further when I pointed out to one lefty that Virgin was subsidising the NHS to the tune of £5m a year they even objected to that on the basis that they might make a profit in the future.

  5. The left really hate the choice allowed to the citizen in the Bismarkian or Social Insurance model as practised by Germany, Austria, Holland, Japan, Oz etc etc.
    What frightens them is the way the gatekeepers can be bypassed, bureaucrats and GPs are there to restrict healthcare in the UK model.
    All those countries have millions of dead people piled up in the streets obvs, as they don’t have an NHS.

  6. How do those who scream “PROFIT!” reconcile this with all those doctors and nurses making their living from other peoples illness?

    Surely, the only rational, consistent approach would be to require all the medical and support staff to work for free?

    Whwen does making a comfortable living out of other peoples’ illnesses becommme unacceptable “PROFIT!!!” ?

    Of course, the janitors and shop stewards are also paid by NHS…more profiteers!

  7. Let’s be honest, the NHS has ceased to exist. Apart from a few areas where there are targets for cancer treatment etc., the whole edifice could be renamed the Covid Public Safety Agency. Try contacting a doctor and all you get is a very long recorded phone message telling you to fuck off and don’t be a nuisance.

  8. “But why is paying Circle or someone to do a hip replacement rather than some NHS team to do it selling off the NHS? It’s still health care treatment free at the point of use…..”

    Because they’re not unionised, and even if they were would be able to pay staff what they thought fit, rather than one size fits all NHS rates. Thus destroying the health unions monopoly on healthcare employment. Which can’t be allowed to happen, regardless of any benefits to patients…….

  9. The NHS is de facto a State run charity dependent on political whim and expediency for its funding out of taxes. It has no commercial value. How can a charity be valued for acquisition beyond any assets such as property it might have?

    There is no revenue stream, no profit, no pricing. Increasing its output just increases costs, not revenue and profit, so where’s the incentive?

    People who talk about privatising the NHS do not understand what it is. It could be privately managed, and so give better value for money, but the private management and their investment, would still be constrained by what the State is prepared to provide in funding – and that serves the politics of the day not the requirements of medical care.

    A privately run State monopoly still will fail to provide the advantages and benefits of a competitive, free market in medical insurance and provision.

    Of course medical care could be privatised, first step by removing the NHS non-contestable monopoly. Allow citizens choice to opt out of paying for it, instead able to buy insurance in a competitive, private market.

    But then what would Labour and Conservatives campaign about at election time?

  10. goes back to that folk economics belief that profit means something will a) cost more b)the motivation is money not health.

  11. I had a hip replaced in 2013. At the time “Our” NHS couldn’t meet their 18 week treatment obligation, so I was given the option of having it done at a private hospital with the NHS footing the bill. Naturally I accepted the offer, and can’t complain at the service I received. The one aspect I would query is the cost – I hear figures of around £9k as being what the NHS “Prices” a hip replacement, yet if I were to pay for the other one (which I’ll probably have to before much longer) then £15k is typical. What I don’t know is whether the NHS gets a bulk discount from the private providers, or has to stump up the higher figure. If the latter, then it would give the “Stealth Privatisation” brigade some ammo…

  12. Hospitals are just hotels with operating theatres attached. Marriots, etc.,would do a better job of running them.

  13. Anyone who thinks a health minister, of any party, is going to relinquish control over healthcare is even dafter than anyone who thinks the bureaucrats prioritise the interests of the patients.

  14. @ Dave Ward
    Hip replacement in GBP
    Poland 3.5k
    Lithuania, India, Turkey, Malaysia, 7k
    Belgium, Spain, UK 10k
    Switzerland 16k
    USA 41k
    You pays your money and you takes your choice.

    The figure for the UK is somewhat notional because before you can be operated on you will need MRI, CT scan, Consultant appointment, X ray, biopsy, steroid injection, preoperative assessment and questionnaires. These steps are repeated as many times as necessary to ensure that the operating theatre doesn’t get any blood spilt in it.

  15. His complaint is just a repeat of Labour Party propaganda that goes back to the 80s. In that four decades, have the Tory scum, or the Blairite scum, “privatised” the NHS? Of course not.

    “public money has been distributed to private sector companies without due process”: it was an emergency, chum. Kate Bingham didn’t run the vaccine programme on “due process” either. Just as well. (And of course her appointment was criticised as “chumocracy” too.)

    Once again King proves himself an arsehole.

  16. Try contacting a doctor and all you get is a very long recorded phone message telling you to fuck off and don’t be a nuisance.

    This. I rang my GP today.
    After 5 minutes of announcements regards vaccination, appointments and their new online consultations, there came the instructions about calling 999 if suffering from a list of symptoms associated with stroke and heart attack.
    Shouldn’t that be first?

  17. Try contacting a doctor and all you get is a very long recorded phone message telling you to fuck off and don’t be a nuisance.

    I get that when trying to arrange to visit the site to deal as their internal NHS IT provider.
    Anon, because.

  18. Currently in hospital and having spent time working in food manufacturing an impressed at how bad the food is, would seem you have to make a special effort to be this inedible (also no choices limited substitutes etc)
    The fact each meal comes with a cartoon of Boost nutritional supplement (sadly often the best part) makes me suspect a outsourcing contract with a minimum nutritional requirement that they are gaming by chucking in the carton rather than providing more nutritional better quality food. My guess would be that if you looked at food waste and uneaten food the figures would be high to the point the program is actually not delivering nutritional value. By all means privatise services but the issue is health service management and procurement is usually one of the worst parts of the system (PPE being a good current example). There are also times when economies of scale don’t add much value and maybe a canteen/kitchen per hospital is overall more efficient and better value for quality delivered than one per area serving multiple hospitals

  19. ‘ the whole edifice could be renamed the Covid Public Safety Agency.’

    Currently being in a hospital, the lack of visitors and PPE rules and protocols makes for a feeling of isolation and loneliness that doesn’t help your mental state in the slightest. Some of the doctors attitudes seem negative, answer to how long you might be in was in ‘7 days your better or in ICU’

  20. It’s entirely possible to sell a loss-making public body. What you do is sell it with an explicit or implicit guarantee of future profitable business whereby you will end up paying the purchaser to continue the provision of the services currently being provided, but at a greatly increased price so that the purchased business becomes profitable. This arrangement would, obviously, have to be sufficiently well disguised to avoid the public realising that they were getting a capital sum now in return for much bigger ongoing expenses for ever more.

    In the best possible world, the purchaser reforms the business to be much more efficient, and ends up charging so much less that the taxpayer ends up paying less overall after a short period of time.

    In a more realistic world, the purchaser claims the same payments and keeps any efficiency savings for themselves.

    In a slightly pessimistic world, the purchaser makes the business worse and uses this as leverage to persuade future governments to pay even more.

  21. Charles sats
    In a slightly pessimistic world, the purchaser makes the business worse and uses this as leverage to persuade future governments to pay even more.

    But they do that already.

  22. “ In a slightly pessimistic world, the purchaser makes the business worse and uses this as leverage to persuade future governments to pay even more.”

    Isn’t that the model for train privatisation, with eventually sell it back

  23. “What you do is sell it with an explicit or implicit guarantee of future profitable business ”

    Sale and Leaseback in one form or another

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