The Germans and logic

Merkel’s failure to tackle Germany climate woes risks rise of Green power
Coalition government is the likely price for Chancellor’s perceived inaction on cleaning up nation’s act

UndSo, Hans. Angela’s idea of beating climate change with plans and directives has not worked.”

“Ja, so let’s vote Green and have more plans and directives to not beat climate change.”

This is something that the Stern Review warned about. Socialism, planned economics, is less efficient than market such. So, if we try to beat climate change via plans, socialism, then we will be doing it inefficiently. As humans do less of what costs more then we’ll do less climate change beating if we do it by socialism rather than markets.

It’s not obvious that Stern was wrong either. The UK and US have rather better emissions records than Germany despite the Energiewende…..

30 thoughts on “The Germans and logic”

  1. Bloke in North Dorset

    At least their leader is easy on the eye:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/germanys-green-party-selects-annalena-baerbock-as-candidate.html

    Wolfgang Munchau at Euro Intelligence describes them as the vegetarian wing of the CDU and nothing like most Green parties.

    Its definitely looking like an odd coalition will have to be formed and from what I’ve been reading the Greens are talking the finance ministry. That said, the CDU/CSU have stitched up their candidate to be Laschet and the CSU are fuming as they think their leader, Söder, is by far the better candidate and there’s yet more talk of a split in the Union, so the Greens could end up being the largest party.

  2. When will we reach a point where some mainstream party steps out of line and requires evidence for climate emergency? No need to take sides, just say desperate remedies need to be justified by REAL desperate conditions, not fake stuff supported by nothing but hair-shirt catastrophism.

  3. Because of the Energiewende. If you want an example of colossal governmental balls-up, then this is it.

    The panic decision to close all of the nukes – just as they were starting to make a profit – and a rush to windmills has so disjointed the energy sector in that part of the world( not just Germany) that I can’t see how it can recover. It is all well known, the closing of the nukes means that Germany has had to build coal powered stations and dig up lignite to fuel them in order to support the wind farms. Furthermore Germany is now completely dependent on Putin’s gas and still can’t get its electricity super-network built.

    The SPD is a busted flush, it will now become a middling party that hovers around 20% in the polls and will compete with the AfD. The Greens are the socialist alternative, not being Stalinists like Die Linke ( despite the allure of Frau Wagenknecht ) helps coupled with the cuddly tree hugging that people still delude themselves that the Greens stand for. The example that the Germans can point to is Baden Wurttemberg where, after the debacle of the Stuttgart 21 project, the CDU collapsed in support and the Greens took over and have managed not to scare too many horses. The Greens have even managed to join in coalition in Austria, but the “new” conservatives under Kurz are as useless and unconservative as the ones in the UK and so the Greens slot in there seamlessly.

  4. Germany nor anywhere else has any climate problems except occasional bad weather.

    Merkal should declare the Greens as the Marxist subversives they are and break them. Arrest their leaders and seize all their cash as if they were neo-nazis . In practice they are worse as Hitler planned to be rid of far fewer people than the 6 billion the green cunts have in their sights via Agenda 21.

    Tim- you need to think carefully about Stern’s bullshit and Pigou taxes and the rest of your eco-influenced drivel.

    We are now living in times akin to the 1630’s in England or the 1850’s in USA or 1930’s worldwide. Nuance is about to be swallowed by whose side you are on and you are hovering around the wrong one. And buying any shade of lying eco-bullshit gives aid and comfort to the foes of everything worthwhile.

    It was never about the fucking climate but about power for leftist scum and behind them a globo elite with even worse plans. You cant reach any accommodation with evil. They will just use your naïve approach.

  5. Ecks’ last three paragraph are a mild summation of the true picture. It’s a bunch o’ cunts after your stuff and they’d like yOr maybe both.

  6. 1st Jan 2021: Germany shuts a bunch of coal power stations by Directive.
    8th Jan 2021: Germany reopens coal power statiosn, as an emergency, ‘cos the wind stopped blowing.

    Lucky the wind stopped so soon, before the knocked down the stations and sold off the bits.
    That’s the UK version…

  7. The UK and US have rather better emissions records than Germany despite the Energiewende…..

    Well, Jerry had better pick up the pace or we may have to go in again:

    Focus of the Armed Forces could switch from protecting energy supplies to guarding the natural environment
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9510817/British-forces-sent-stop-countries-cutting-rainforests-William-Hague-says.html
    “But in the future, armies will be sent to ensure oil is not drilled . . .”

    Over the top, lads!
    ( Gender neutral, you ‘orrible little oik! )

  8. The only bit of Ecksy’s rant I don’t buy into is the “Globo Elite”. The “Globo Elite” is a bunch of old men at the peak of their powers. They’ve scaled the greasy pole & their main aim is staying there & praying for a breakthrough in life extension medical science. They have very little interest in Tomorrows World & dark secret plans for it.

  9. BiS

    Actually I think they do. They want to leave a legacy, they want to be honoured and praisef in all eternity etc

    At least Tony Blair does.

  10. Tony Blair wants to stay up on the tiger he’s riding. While he’s still regarded as “influential” he’s untouchable. He gets off & there’ll be a lot of pigeons coming home to roost.

  11. Hmmm, Baerbock eh? Can one imagine Boris being attracted by the name and looking for a possible entrée there.

    Amusingly for those with an earthy turn of mind, her spouse according to Wiki is one Daniel Holefleisch.

  12. Bloke in China (Germany province)

    What the greens do economically will be determined by their eventual coalition partner. They do now have a solid and loyal voter base of starry-eyed “linksgrün-versiffter” first-time voters who have never had to face the realities of life, straight out of a decade of state indoctrination by teachers who have never had to face the realities of life. That base holds the congenital belief that they are poor, that they are owed a living by “the rich” who only have their wealth because they stole it from others, including those who have no to few productive years behind them.

    Nevertheless, they will be disappointed by the greens if we end up with a green-black coalition. It is an extremely safe bet that the greens will be the biggest party. The country is so fucking traumatised by a year of Merkel’s failure (society split into the majority who think she wasn’t fascist enough, and the minority who think it’s all gone too far) that the CDU is going to lose heavily even if the greens spout their barely-concealed crap about wanting meat banned, electricity rationed, and petrol at 5 euros a litre.

    I suspect that green and black will not, or only just, be able to scare up a working majority. If we end up with green-red-red you can expect the full scale economic demolition that would bring, further confiscatory taxes, reinstatement of full unemployment benefits and their expansion to migrants, abolition of private health care, abolition of limits on health and social security charges, and will allow the greens to go full steam with the fascist end of their own agenda.

    There may be much ruin in a nation, but Germany has rather less ruin left in it than 16 years ago, and the next 4 years could be a really rough ride.

  13. Surely the solution to the “problem” of wanting furriners’ oil to remain in the ground it so actually buy it from them before they’ve extracted it. Once it’s yours you can then virtuosly choose to do whatever the hell you want with it, including leaving it in the ground. Otherwise it’s all just 19th century imperialism, rich westerners telling brown people what to do with their property, ‘cos the poor dears don’t know any better so we must make their decisions for them.

  14. Blimey jgh. Would you give your wallet to a raghead to look after whilst you were swimming? That’s what you’re suggesting. You’re paying them for the asset. Then leaving them controlling the asset. What do you think they’d do?

  15. So, if we try to beat climate change via plans, socialism, then we will be doing it inefficiently. As humans do less of what costs more then we’ll do less climate change beating if we do it by socialism rather than markets.

    Tim old chap. Write out one hundred times:-

    “Climate changes. It is what it does. We puny earthlings cannot ‘beat’ climate change, we can only adapt to it.”

    You might also want to consider that when we have to adapt to the changing climate it will be much easier to do if we don’t destroy our economy by futile attempts – whether socialist or market driven – to ‘beat’ it.

  16. Bloke in North Dorset

    jgh,

    Surely the solution to the “problem” of wanting furriners’ oil to remain in the ground it so actually buy it from them before they’ve extracted it.

    Ecuador tried it:

    Ecuador has abandoned a conservation plan that would have paid the country not to drill for oil in previously untouched parts of Yasuni National Park in the Amazon rainforest.

    President Rafael Correa said rich nations had failed to back the initiative, leaving Ecuador with no choice but go ahead with drilling.

    The park is one of the most biodiverse areas in the world.

    To nobody’s surprise it seems the rich world only wants to pontificate about envirolmentalism and climate change.

  17. No, the whole point of buying the asset is to remove it from their control. At the moment all the arguments are based on paying furriners to continue to own the asset and expect them to leave it in the ground. The only way you can control somebody else’s asset is to make it no longer their asset. The only ethical way of doing that is to buy it from them – otherwise we’re back to the era of gunships to enforce our control of somebody else’s asset.

    The National Trust wants great swathes of the countryside left to semi-managed wilderness. So it buys great swathes of countryside so it can impose its wishes on that asset.

  18. BiND: That’s the failing method that failed. Attempting to pay foreigners to not do something with the asset that they own. Abandon that, just buy the damn asset, and *then* it’s yours to leave in the ground. If the foreigners than try to dig it up, it’s pure simple theft.

  19. Bloke in China (Germany province)

    “just buy the damn asset, and *then* it’s yours to leave in the ground. If the foreigners than try to dig it up, it’s pure simple theft.”

    And you need a gunboat to stop the theft.

  20. “No, no, Offendi! You bought 3% of our total reserve, and we aren’t touching that.. We’re selling the bit that you didn’t buy. An’at that we’re cuttin’our own throats!!”

  21. Recent article on how local wildfires from a few years ago (climate change squeaking in full swing about at time) has made it easier to study indigenous culture and history as it’s exposed previously unknown sites. The fact that conditions must have been different when the sites were populated and the heavy forest cover is not a permanent status quo seems to go over the heads of the environmentalists. Similar to retreating glaciers exposing sites and artefacts, must have meant the glacier has been at least that far back at some point in the past.

  22. It turns out that around 2-3,000 BC, the deserts of North Africa were lush savannah and climate change dried up the many rivers.

    This proves the assertion that the pyramids were not built by slaves. They had JCBs

  23. BiS-“The only bit of Ecksy’s rant I don’t buy into is the “Globo Elite”. The “Globo Elite” is a bunch of old men at the peak of their powers. They’ve scaled the greasy pole & their main aim is staying there & praying for a breakthrough in life extension medical science. They have very little interest in Tomorrows World & dark secret plans for it.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i3dB2qWbA

  24. A few years ago, Reason Magazine did a piece on the homelessness crisis in Los Angeles (which has only gotten worse since then).

    There was a struggling musician, who himself used to be homeless, who decided to build his own tiny houses and offer them to anyone sleeping on the streets. The houses were basic, just nicely painted wooden square enclosures with a locking door, a window and some carpeting, but it was a lot nicer and safer than a tent or a cardboard box. They also had numbers posted on the front, so these people could finally have an actual mailing address.

    Well, LA NIMBY-ism cropped up, and the locals began complaining that these houses took up too much space on public sidewalks (which the townspeople didn’t own anyway, and had already been neglected when they had ratty tents accumulating on them). Also, the city council had a $2 billion homelessness project that they were already trying to promote.

    Of course, instead of coexisting with another initiative that was helping the homeless, Mayor Garcetti took the most nonsensical and expensive route possible, spending money on crews collecting and destroying the tiny houses. They also gave these new residents the joy of being kicked out of their homes for the second time, and some of these people were war vets. Because why stop at just being a little shitty?

    Fast-forward to just the other night, and Los Angeles still had to physically relocate a bunch of homeless people, so they could make room for the “important people” attending the Oscars. Unchecked government is cancer.

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