Dear Lord

Wait, what? The American government was paying for research into bat coronaviruses in Wuhan?

Umm…..OK, so it’s pretty out there at the moment but, umm, what if it s actually true?

Holy Bejayzus.

So, I asked the one person I know who would have a view I should think seriously about on this.

Nick goes a bit too far and gets a few facts wrong, but not by much

I’m taking that as quite likely right then. Which is, umm, a hell of a story. There is more to come – not from me – in tomorrow’s Speccie.

Holy Bejayzus.

BTW, the American research in Wuhan was originally funded under Obama….

32 thoughts on “Dear Lord”

  1. It’s hardly conspiracy theory, the original work proposal and the fund approval have all been published: Fauci has been forced to admit it.
    The original denial was not exactly impartial, as the person who organised the denial was the one that signed off the funds.

    Of course, there is no connection between the deliberate creation of a more infectious (gain-of-function) bat-derived corona virus in a Wuhan lab, and the outbreak of a human infectious bat-derived corona virus in Wuhan.
    Even if some of the staff of the lab were hospitalised for it in Oct 2019.

  2. “so it’s pretty out there at the moment but …: oh no it isn’t. It’s kosher.

    I like the expression of Wm Briggs (‘Statistician to the Stars’): he calls it gain-of-lethality research.

    Fauci lied about it, in the sense that he didn’t directly fund the research but first laundered the money through a ‘non-profit’ in NYC. Why do it indirectly? So he could lie about it without actually telling an untruth, I suppose. The man’s a crook.

    If you want an actual “out there” theory look at Ron Unz. He thinks it was a US bio-weapon attack on China and Iran that proved to be incompetent. The incompetence is plausible – CIA after all. But it sounds much, much less likely to me than just an ordinary cock-up in a lab. I speak as a man who spent years on a lab safety committee.

  3. This has been around (and actively and vigourously suppressed) for a while now.

    I hate that it is like this, because how can you ever argue with a conspiracy theorist again, with something like this changing overnight from ‘wacky conspiracy theory’ to ‘valid hypothesis’?

    Read here: https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1397334751774658562

    The original problem is that people were interpreting “it came from a lab in Wuhan” as “the Chinese deliberately weaponified a virus to unleash it on the rest of the world”, so it was dismissed as wacky. And this put into shadow the enormously more mundane (but respectful of Hanlon’s razor) theory, that someone screwed up while trying to work out how safe we were from a bat virus turning into a human virus.

    Note that Gain of function research had been abolished for a time in the US precisely because of the risk of a lab leak.

    Note also that this situation (dangerous research outsourced by US to China) explains why people on both sides (and especially virologists – what else are they going to research?) had clear motivation for looking elsewhere.

  4. Wait, what?
    Holy Bejayzus.

    There’s something charmingly amusing that this is new and shocking to you, Tim.

  5. We in the tin foil hat community have known this from the start. A bat virus jumps the species barrier to humans with no intermediate host except a lab doing gain of function research. Join the dots with red ink.
    The local CCP panics and tries to suppress the people, welding doors shut, etc.
    The central committee CCP decides that if China is going to get hit, so must everyone else. They shut down internal travel but allow Wuhan airport to operate as many international flights as they like.
    Videos are released showing actors falling down “dead” in the street. The West panics.

    I’ve a suspicion that US collaboration and funding of Wuhan Virus Lab was because the gain of function research was considered too dangerous / unethical to be approved in the US.

    But no doubt the poison dwarf will set our minds at ease. After all, we should not ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence. I suppose we should be grateful that Fauci only won the election for the Democrats and wasn’t on the ticket himself.

  6. The central committee CCP decides that if China is going to get hit, so must everyone else . . .
    . . . The West panics.

    My “still a bit out there” theory is that the CCP CC realised early on that it wasn’t massively dangerous (since it’s so obvious) but bounced the West into thinking it was. The West wrecks its economy and injects all its people with emergency vaccines that may well make the population very susceptible to the next Sars-COV virus.

    Meanwhile, Wuhan is partying like it’s 2021.

  7. The ‘merikans shut down Fort Dietrich virus work… – coz the slippery little buggers got out….

    Fauci is a c**t

  8. Suppose a viral outbreak outside Porton Down attributed to a virus normally present in animals in the south of France.
    Would it be more reasonable to suspect as a source Porton Down or the local farmer’s market?

  9. Also what is gain of function work in aid of?
    One explanation is to get ahead of nature and find viruses likely to jump from animals to humans before they do so naturally, in order to develop some effective treatment. If so there must have been parallel work to find the treatment. May I suggest that discovering every possible variant of every virus currently affecting animals is a very large undertaking.
    Another is for biological warfare. But releasing an infectious disease amongst your enemy pretty well ensures that said disease will come back to bite you. So you need to develop a viable treatment. Hence there would have to be parallel work to find the treatment.

  10. What PJF and philip said.

    Sir Richard Dearlove allowed himself to recorded on a DT podcast with Allison Pearson saying that he was almost certain it came from the Wuhan lab.

    An ex head of MI6 doesn’t allow himself to go on record like that unless he “knew”. That was early last summer.

  11. Let me correct that. He might have said “a lab” rather than “the Wuhan lab” – I can’t remember that bit, and can’t be bothered to check.

  12. “Also what is gain of function work in aid of?
    One explanation is to get ahead of nature and find viruses likely to jump from animals to humans before they do so naturally, in order to develop some effective treatment. If so there must have been parallel work to find the treatment. May I suggest that discovering every possible variant of every virus currently affecting animals is a very large undertaking.
    Another is for biological warfare. But releasing an infectious disease amongst your enemy pretty well ensures that said disease will come back to bite you. So you need to develop a viable treatment. Hence there would have to be parallel work to find the treatment.”

    Here’s a tinfoil hat theory for you.

    It could be that the spike protein details (as provided by the CCP no less) that all the Western vaccines are based on producing is the bio-weapon. Everyone who has a Western vaccine starts creating spike proteins in their body, how long they last no-one quite knows, plus it looks like Western governments will want everybody jabbed every 6-12 months anyway, topping up levels on a regular basis. The spike protein isn’t the weapon itself (though it does do harm, as we are finding out), its the marker for the actual bioweapon. In a few years time the CCP releases their new coronavirus, genetically engineered to target everyone who has the spike protein in their system, and kills them. Result, the West is virtually wiped off the map, China rules (whats left of) the world. And best of all because death by genetically engineered spike protein seeking coronavirus looks very like death from ordinary CV-19 no-one will even realise they’ve been attacked. It’ll look like a natural event, a mutant malevolent strain of CV-19 that just kills loads of people. The only tell tale sign will be strangely enough the Chinese are largely unaffected………….

  13. “There’s something charmingly amusing that this is new and shocking to you, Tim.”

    I know, just goes to show what happens when you rely on the MSM for your information. This has been out there for a looong time now. Its just that Orange Man Bad meant anyone who mentioned previously it was memory holed.

  14. Jim remember our so called Elites are convinced a mass depopulation event is needed to save the planet.

    Refer to the Georgia guidestones

  15. Philip

    The central committee CCP decides that if China is going to get hit, so must everyone else. They shut down internal travel but allow Wuhan airport to operate as many international flights as they like.
    Videos are released showing actors falling down “dead” in the street. The West panics.

    Seems very likely to me. I’ve long believed the ludicrous lockdown followed by most of the West was driven at least partly by CCP infiltrators in senior western governments, aided and abetted by CCP campaigns on social media etc and of course the gullible useful idiots in the MSM. It wouldn’t be difficult – a bit of misinformation and a gentle nudge and the clowns will do the rest themselves. Witness too the way Sweden was vilified, cos that wouldn’t play along.

  16. If you shop on the High Street you can look at the label or the side of the box to see the country of manufacture. (It’s required by law, I think.)
    But if you shop on line you often can’t tell where it’s come from until the goods arrive. It seems that online stores are under no obligation to display the info.
    A simple change in the rules would allow us to boycott all the tat made in China.

  17. The latest studies show that the spike protein on its own can cause lung tissue scarring/damage, not sure where that leave the vaccines or if it’s just another risk factor that’s not widely known.

  18. FYI

    as I understand it there are 3 labs in Wuhan city that were tinkering with bat viruses.

    Two were expunged from Google maps and Apple mapping by March 2020 at the latest.

  19. For real tin foil hat conspiracy try this.
    Who are the most expensive (and in the state’s view) most expendable patients?
    The chronically ill, patients with multiple pathologies, the elderly, the obese and diabetics.
    Get rid of them and your NHS funding problem is solved. Hurrah for the NHS!
    You may say that smokers and drinkers are also difficult to treat. But they also contribute significantly more, through duties, to the NHS than the rest. Convenient that they are largely spared.

    Do I believe this shit? No of course not. The NHS might welcome the outcome but they are surely too incompetent to engineer it.

  20. Of course, if you REALLY wanted the rest of the world to destroy itself in a blind panic, you couldn’t just rely on videos of actors falling down in the street. You might also, for instance, unleash one or two brave ‘whistleblowers’ to the media, plus deny all access to a dodgy Chinese virology lab, and then leave the rest to the world’s imagination.

    One thing does puzzle me: what did happen to that virus which made six Chinese miners seriously ill with pneumonia, killing three of them, at a cave in 2012? Assuming that that really happened (and there’s been no attempt to game that story for any advantage, as far as I can see), what has that virus been doing for the last nine years? Surely it didn’t just strike once and disappear for good. Has it possibly been circulating all this time, being just generally diagnosed as ‘flu’, and only become a catastrophic issue when nearly every vulnerable person suddenly shut their doors and denied themselves fresh air, exercise and sunshine ever again?

    As always, happy to be put right on that, if I’ve misunderstood things.

  21. “One thing does puzzle me: what did happen to that virus which made six Chinese miners seriously ill with pneumonia, killing three of them, at a cave in 2012?”

    One suspects thats what became CV-19, after a suitable bit of ‘gain of function’ magic in Wuhan Virology Lab. It is after all the closest known relative to CV-19. The reason it never caused a problem out in the wild was you had to spend 12 hours a day shovelling contaminated bat shit in an enclosed space to catch it. But after a bit of fiddling with to make it far more contagious to and among humans and ta-dah! You have CV-19.

  22. “The only tell tale sign will be strangely enough the Chinese are largely unaffected………”

    Tin hat territory: my chinese ex-wife doesn’t want to be vaccinated “due to her weak body”. My nephews in Hong Kong have all been vaccinated…..

  23. Thanks, Jim. Sounds plausible.

    Regarding your tin-foil hat theory (that the vaccines are the marker for a future lethal virus), a possible mechanism for that is the Hoskins effect (also known as original antigenic sin).

    The first time a virus evades your innate immunity to get in your body, your adaptive immune system releases antibodies to counter it, then stores a record of those antibodies ready to release more the moment it encounters that virus again. But sometimes, if you later encounter a virus which is different, but from the same family, your body will ineffectually attack it with the same type of antibodies it used for the old virus and at the same time, crucially, suppress your adaptive immune system from manufacturing new, appropriate ones. The result is serious illness. Apparently this is something which happened with the 2009 flu vaccine.

    Now, it’s been discovered by a team from Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York that these Sars2 vaccines have precisely this effect on two of the four other coronaviruses which affect humans (“We also found … an original antigenic-sin like backboost to seasonal human coronaviruses OC43 and HKU1”.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.07.21253098v2

    I have no idea whether this in itself is an issue, since I imagine everyone but young children has already encountered these particular viruses, though that’s just a guess. But the point is that the mechanism would, I surmise, also be there for an original antigenic-like sin backboost to some other, future coronavirus, whether a natural or fabricated one.

    That’s an hypothesis I really would like someone to come and shoot down. But until they do, I’m definitely declining these injections.

  24. Had I been young, single, and healthy, I’d have declined them too. No one who lacks a time machine can know their long term effects.

  25. “Tin hat territory: my chinese ex-wife doesn’t want to be vaccinated “due to her weak body”. My nephews in Hong Kong have all been vaccinated…..”

    The Chinese vaccines are not mRNA ones creating spike proteins in the body. They are attenuated virus ones, ie ‘traditional’ vaccines. And as such probably don’t do much good, as we’ve been trying to make vaccines for coronaviruses that way for ever and they’ve never worked. But equally for my tin hat theory don’t turn Chinese people into walking spike protein factories…………..

  26. Richard Nixon is the idiot who wanted to partner with China back in the 70s to help develop their economy and “make friends.”

    Lessons learned:

    1. Don’t push freedom on people who don’t even understand it
    2. Wait until a country has non-threatening ideas before you empower them

  27. If its a bio-weapon it is a piss poor one as it has no more killing power than a bad winter flu. The rest is Western scum liars.

    If YOU HAVE ANY SENSE DONT TOUCH THE VAX–ESP IF YOU ARE OLD/ILL. And esp not for a fucking foreign holiday you aren’t getting anyway.

    Get hold of the various treatments and keep up your vitamin D etc.

    If the vax is a set up then come winter their may be a massive surge. I hope not but if there is or not wannabe social credit tyrants will likely make their move. Using the same lies as now or actual lurgy the vax has set mugs up for.

    If Blojob Johnson wants his greenfreakshow poverty forced on us he will need social credit tyranny to make UK an open-air jail first. He doesn’t have Plod/jails enough for all those who will refuse to give up their cars of spend huge chunks of savings /assets on shite eco-boilers. So social credit tyranny is the only way he can get his green shiteshow forced on us.

  28. apeoirjaer
    May 27, 2021 at 5:26 am

    Tricky Dicky did have the excuse that the US had just been crushingly defeated in Vietnam. So he tried to split the Communist alliance of USSR and China. For much the same reason the US and the UK supported Stalin’s takeover of Eastern Europe.

    The worst error I can think of here is the US using the Washington treaty to push Britain into abandoning its alliance with the Japs against Russian expansion into China. Since the Japs would hardly have industrialised a colonial China to the extent that Japan was just an appendage of the Chinese empire, I’d say the whole matter wasn’t worth the bones of a Pomeranian grenadier to the US, let alone the Pacific war.

  29. Don’t forget a lot of the reality denial is down to Wah Drumpf TDS, if Trump said it, it was auto rejected by the MSM as tim foil etc etc etc, by all the SJW.
    See below for example:
    “The baseless claim — which we first addressed in the early days of the pandemic — was further amplified when Fox News host Tucker Carlson featured an interview with one of the authors of the paper on his show on Sept. 15.

    That segment was viewed on YouTube nearly 2 million times and that link alone was shared by more nearly 50,000 users on Facebook, according to CrowdTangle analytics data, where other popular posts also repeated the allegations.

    But experts say the new paper, which has not been peer-reviewed, does not prove that the virus was created in a lab”
    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/report-resurrects-baseless-claim-that-coronavirus-was-bioengineered/

  30. For those wondering why the “gain of function” work was being done, it has to be seen in the context of the realisation that you can significantly increase the deadliness of diseases through genetic manipulation.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn311-killer-mousepox-virus-raises-bioterror-fears/

    Back when this was published there was a lot of debate about whether the research should have been published, but the genie cannot be put back in the bottle. Since then most governments have been working on ways to combat possible innovations of this sort. This has become more important since the advent of CRISPR, which has made genetic tinkering available to a wider population.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR_gene_editing

    I always tend to the cock-up theory over the conspiracy theory. If this was modified, it’s probably just a standard lab containment failure, followed by a cover-up. As for why they failed to prevent international flights, while blocking internal travel, there was an assumption that screening would work (as it did for SARS) – the plonkers at the WHO endorsed this. The problem was that screening was not implemented in Europe and unlike SARS, Covid turned out to be possible to spread while asymptomatic.

    One reason why the Europeans failed to do enough is that they got away without doing anything during SARS – but Chinese travel to Europe has grown by 5 to 10 times since 2003. Given the median and modal number that any one individual infects is probably zero (because of superspreaders the mean is high, but the other measures of average are zero to one), it took bad luck for one of the very rare infected travellers from China to spread the disease in Europe, where failures in monitoring in Italy led to it spreading throughout Europe and the rest of the world. The WHO did a crap job. As did the Italians. The refusal to close borders was a major mistake.

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