could never mount such a thing now, and so manages a debacle in the Channel instead, all at the cost of keeping a ship that mounts a few machine guns when in action.
1 × Oerlikon 20 mm cannon
Hell of a machine gun, that.
could never mount such a thing now, and so manages a debacle in the Channel instead, all at the cost of keeping a ship that mounts a few machine guns when in action.
1 × Oerlikon 20 mm cannon
Hell of a machine gun, that.
I imagine that, if a Royal Marine detachment were on board, they might bring a bit of their own hardware to the party.
That’s a massive coincidence! 4 hours prior to reading this post i didn’t know what an Oerlikon was. But this morning i was reading mountbatten’s biography, and just got past the bit where an austrian salesman comes into his office to flog him Oerlikons and its advantages over the pom poms (rate of fire easier to bring to bear). Mounbatten was converted and made it one of his “causes” but the 1st sea lord who was going to back him died of overwork, and their adoption was a little too late for the outbreak. The biographer does go off on one how many lives would have been saved in norway, the med and dunkirk, if the beaurocracy had listened to M and the fleets had been fitted with them. But then ironically he notes that HMS kelly (mountbatten’s command) was fitted with them and still couldn’t fight off the stukas that sunk her.
“The ship was decommissioned in 2017, but the Government decided to recommission her as part of Brexit preparedness” says WKPD.
Golly, foresight from HMG. Quiet applause.
So now he’s an expert on naval strategy and tactics and the RN’s role in fisheries protection and MACP? Looks like there’s still no beginning to his talents. From someone who genuinely knows a thing or 2 about the subject:
https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2021/05/go-away-or-i-shall-taunt-you-some-more.html
This is worth a read as well:
https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2021/05/the-start-of-something-special-csg21.html
My father was firing an Oerlikon at Jerry from HDML 1411 after D-Day.
Unfortunately, they fired back and killed his loader – something he didn’t ever get over.
He was 18.
Bloke in Cyprus said:
“My father was firing an Oerlikon at Jerry from HDML 1411 after D-Day.”
Isn’t it older than that – basically a WW1 gun design? But still works well – so long as your target isn’t armoured.
@ RichardT
The Oerlikon 20 mm cannon is a series of autocannons, based on an original German Becker Type M2 20 mm cannon design that appeared very early in World War I. It was widely produced by Oerlikon Contraves and others, with various models employed by both Allied and Axis forces during World War II, and many versions are still in use today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon
“But still works well – so long as your target isn’t armoured.”
Last time I checked fishing ships weren’t armored.
Which is why they take so much ammo to sink… Those 20mm shells go straight through.. Best bet is aim for the stern and hope you hit the engine on the way through.
“Overpenetration” is an actual thing..
Heh… forget the oerlikon.. They’ve got 2 MAG’s.. More than enough to make swiss cheese out of anything up to light armour…. instant scrapheap..
BiC, thank you, thought it was something like that.
What I couldn’t find was when they stopped making them (if indeed they did stop). Are we using old ones from scrapped ships, or are they still in production?
@RichardT
These are modern 20mm manufactured by Oerlikon, not THE WW2 vintage Oerlikons which went out of service in the 80s which are being discussed above
So within a few years of voting to leave the EU. the eurosceptics now want us to got to war with France.
I haver always said that the European Union / EEC brought decades of peace and human rights to Western and now much of Eastern Europe. I was told I was pushing project fear. Wow. So now Boris is sending gun boats to Jersey.
Is Boris going to start using nukes soon? The eurosceptics should have been honest that they love war and misery.
Not sure that really works. Jersey never was in the EU…..
You haven’t lived until you’ve fired an M2 Browning 50 cal.
The Oerlikon cannon has a fascinating history. The book ‘Wheezers and Dodgers’, about the exploits of DMWD in WW2, contains a fascinating sub-history of how it came to be adopted by the the US and Royal Navies, Antoine Gazda and the trials of getting it into production in the UK.
The real benefit of the Oerlikon was that its API operation made for a gun that was very light (in relation to its firepower) and also required a relatively-light mounting due to the low resulting deck thrust. This made for an very-effective weapon that could easily be handled by one person, even in a twin mount, and that could be mounted in places where similar but more-conventional weapons, such as the classic ‘pom-pom’ 2-pounder, could not.
Modern Oerlikons are simply updated versions of the original, with belt feeds, power training and modern sighting. But it’s the same basic gun, for the same basic reasons.
llater,
llamas
“I haver always said that the European Union / EEC brought decades of peace and human rights to Western and now much of Eastern Europe. I was told I was pushing project fear. Wow. So now Boris is sending gun boats to Jersey.”
So Boris just randomly sent a gun boat to Jersey on the off chance of some action? Or was this triggered by some prior actions of those peace loving international law abiding EU inhabitants?
“The eurosceptics should have been honest that they love war and misery.”
The British love a good war. To be honest I suspect part of the reason so many people are in favour of covid restrictions is they feel that its akin to wartime. Gives everyone a purpose in life and a sense of camaraderie. Stuff freedom and liberty, all the British really want is rationing and a night time curfew and blackout.
Wasn’t part of the reason for Brexit that we could be more open about hating the French, not that being in the EU stopped them from expressing their opinion.
Tim Worstall. But France is in the EU, and so was the UK. And there was no threat of war then.
Jim. If we were in the EU, there would be no threat of war games. Leaving the EU is causing populist politicians to star sabre rattling again. It is a disaster.
BniC That is xenophobia, which is like racism. I do not hate the French. I do not hate people for being form other nations. It is bigotry and nasty to hate people for being from other nations. Did a French woman laugh at your man hood or something?
Sorry my name was written wrongly. Don’t know how that happened.
Tim Worstall. But France is in the EU, and so was the UK. And there was no threat of war then.
Jim. If we were in the EU, there would be no threat of war games. Leaving the EU is causing populist politicians to star sabre rattling again. It is a disaster.
BniC That is xenophobia, which is like racism. I do not hate the French. I do not hate people for being form other nations. It is bigotry and nasty to hate people for being from other nations. Did a French woman laugh at your man hood or something?
I haver always said that the European Union / EEC brought decades of peace and human rights to Western and now much of Eastern Europe.
Tell that to the Ukrainians you pompous dickhead.
@ Nick Samuels
FYI I voted “Remain”, but I can see that the French fishermen are mounting naked aggression because they don’t like the deal agreed between the EU and the UK and are attacking Jersey which is not part of the UK and has never been part of the EU.
Boris hasn’t been currying votes from Jersey since they don’t send an MP to Westminster; he has, for a change, sought to uphold international law against a group of “bully boys”
‘So within a few years of voting to leave the EU. the eurosceptics now want us to got to war with France.
I haver always said that the European Union / EEC brought decades of peace and human rights to Western and now much of Eastern Europe. I was told I was pushing project fear. Wow. So now Boris is sending gun boats to Jersey.’
I thought that was primarily NATO – your comments are a direct insult to the dead of Srebrenica , located in Europe and killed with the collusion of the EU who said that it was the breakup of Yugoslavia was ‘harmful to the international order. How would you handle the aggression from French fishermen? Jersey is a crown dependency?
‘Is Boris going to start using nukes soon? The eurosceptics should have been honest that they love war and misery.’
The provocative action by France comes on top of continued thwarting of U.K. exports and the weaponising of the Irish border in response to their vaccination shambles by The EU, which increasingly resembles a rogue state- Europhiles should have been honest that they love violations of international law and breaches of negotiated treaties, so long as the EU is the beneficiary
“If we were in the EU, there would be no threat of war games. Leaving the EU is causing populist politicians to star sabre rattling again. It is a disaster.”
So the EU only acts to create peace when it gets its own way then? The UK leaves and it starts behaving like a spurned spouse. Not so very peace and human rights loving then is it? Or do you only get peace and human rights if you are under the EU’s thumb?
Oh good grief. Looks like our old “friend” Violet Elizabeth Newmania is back under a new moniker.
The spelling is too good for Newmania. The thinking is still straight from the lower fifth form however!
Nick Samuels –
If only we were still in the EU. Everything was sweetness and light when we were in the EU: https://apnews.com/article/8bfc0cd5b74bb238fce6c8c64af416d6
https://apnews.com/article/8bfc0cd5b74bb238fce6c8c64af416d6.
From the article linked by BiND
So much for the peace-loving EU
Do we still have an agreement to borrow a french Carrier on request?
It’s a 30mm :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk44_Bushmaster_II