Simon says:
May 6 2021 at 10:58 am
I’ve given some thought to our post-independence defence policy here in Scotland. I’m of the view that a healthy chunk of the money we save on Trident should be spent on Defence Against the Dark Arts, specifically UK psy ops units like 77th Brigade. I think it’s very likely that Scotland would be the target of considerable UK chicanery.Reply
Richard Murphy says:
May 6 2021 at 11:47 am
I am sure that is trueAnd deliberately subversive placing of staff to underline the effectiveness of as many organisations as possible – a technique I am becoming increasingly familiar with
From which we can assume that someone at some place he’s involved with is a spy? Or done something he doesn’t like? Or just the paranoia is kicking in?
“underline the effectiveness”: the bastards are already inserting slightly comical typos into his spew.
Anyhoo, “Defence Against the Dark Arts” sounds to me like a campaign against Gypsies. That’s not very woke.
The paranoia.
Or maybe he’s just telling lies again!
There won’t be a UK after Scotland leaves.
Looks like they’re getting their excuses for a failed Scotland in early.
Warning, imminent shortage of rolls of kitchen aluminium.
News coming in of stark recent increase in use of self-made tin foil hats.
What money they will save on Trident?
Trident will be paid for by the UK not an independent Scotland, so no savings
Anyhoo the Dark Arts they need to defend against is Professor Krankie and her Death-eater acolytes in SlytheriNP
I think it’s very likely that Scotland would be the target of considerable UK chicanery.
Why? We will be busy Building A Wall.
@MC,
Surely the chicanery is building chicanes on the roads that cross the boder, preferably to stop the money leaving England and propping up the whining Scottish bastards …
“ deliberately subversive placing of staff to underline the effectiveness of as many organisations as possible – a technique I am becoming increasingly familiar with”
Good grief – is he seriously thinking that the people he’s fallen out with, in all those tiny little left-wing organisations, have been undercover government agents? This really is looking like a mental health breakdown.
Given Alex Cobham’s ability at economic analysis it’s easy enough to see why he might think that……
“Either I’m wrong, or there are secret state actors conspiring against me. Well I’m never wrong…”
This is why we should have stayed in the EU.
The UK far-right are full of people who want to make other nations enemies when they were once allies.
I respect the democratic voice of the Scottish people.
If the Scottish people want to be independent. I support that right. If the Scottish people do not want to be independent, then that is their right.
From which we can assume that someone at some place he’s involved with is a spy? Or done something he doesn’t like? Or just the paranoia is kicking in?
None of the above.
Richard Murphy’s professional career amounts to nothing more than being the subversive staffing choice undermining the effectiveness of any organization daft enough to employ, utilize or associate with him.
Of course he’s familiar with the technique… He is the technique.
Fascinating. So, if the Scots want to leave that’s fine, but if the British wanted to leave the EU that’s not?
At least the usual view around here is logically consistent – folks can leave if they want to. Have a vote and see.
I did not support leaving the EU. But I respect the democratic view of the people. Although I would prefer it if we voted to re-join the EU. I will support democracy. Scotland should be respected and not humiliated into submission.
I am consistent in respecting the democratic view of each nation.
I support democracy.
I support democratic results unless a nation wants to carry out genocide or holocausts.
Obviously if the NAZIs were about to win an election. I would not support that.
What savings from abandoning Trident? They’ll lose the expenditure spent in Scotland on Trident, while having to replace the very same expenditure, as they are committed to joining NATO, where 2% defence spending is required.
“Scotland should be respected and not humiliated into submission.”
Because being given a ‘Once in a lifetime’ vote on independence only 6 years ago is being disrespected and humiliated of course………I think you’ll find around here that the general view is that any Scots in favour of independence should be campaigning to give the English a vote on the matter, that would guarantee independence…………..
“Scotland should be respected and not humiliated into submission“
the are polls currently showing an independence vote would fail at around the same margins as last time so not sure why it’s anyone fault other than the Scots.
Now if the polls changed significantly then maybe the ‘once in a lifetime’ could be reduced, but there’s no evidence of a surge in support for independence so why not stick to the existing conditions.
Part of the reason for the once in a lifetime was to reduce opportunities for Scotland to hold U.K. to
ransom if they didn’t sweeten the funding deal so exactly who is manipulating who in this early referendum scenario
“they are committed to joining NATO, where 2% defence spending is required.”
There’s plenty of NATO members who don’t pay anywhere near that, so I can’t see why Scotland would be made to either.
‘Obviously if the NAZIs were about to win an election. I would not support that.’
So in effect you don’t support democracy if it gives a favourable result to certain ‘unacceptable’ political parties? Given Murphy calls the current government ‘Far right’ would that be extended to them?
‘We have a government whose narrative is of control, suppression and denial in all its many forms. The arts threaten that narrative. And so, just as at one time books were burnt, in the modern UK the arts must be suppressed. The ability to build new narratives is to be curtailed. Few decisions are as sinister as this.’
Says the man who has banned 10,000 people from his blog and blocked 30,000 people on Twitter.
“So in effect you don’t support democracy if it gives a favourable result to certain ‘unacceptable’ political parties?”
That was my immediate reaction. He who decides who are ‘Nazis’ decides who may be allowed to win elections……its a typical Leftist ploy, make some bland statement that no one can be against (‘Nazis shouldn’t be allowed to win elections’) and then make sure they are the ones who define who the Nazis are. Surprise surprise it turns out to be anyone to the right of Jeremy Corbyn. And even he’s suspect because he probably voted for Brexit…….
Van_Patten – No I did not say that. You are twisting my words. I said in extreme circumstances, explicitly genocide or holocausts. I did not say that any random democratic election should be overruled, just because you don’t like right wing or left wing governments. I simply said if a government is carrying genocide or a holocaust then they should be stopped, and removed from power.
Would you support a party staying in power if they planned to kill Jews, white people, Muslims or gypsies?
That is nothing like Brexit, or Scottish independence. You are just being a snake now.
I would never support the NAZIs even if they won an election.
Jim, and BniC. Scotland has right to hold an election whenever it wants to. Would you say general elections should be once in a lifetime? It is a weak weak argument. It is bullying, oppressive and and deeply dangerous, to stop countries deciding their future.
If a country wants to stay in the EU or leave. It can.
If a country wants to stay in the UK or leave. It has a right to do so.
That is a democratic right of nations.
If Scotland does vote for independence then the potato should be forced to relocate there – because one of the reasons they might vote that way is because he continually tells them that GERS is a crock of shit and actually their national income is actually much higher than is reported. Unfortunately it appears a lot of Scots believe this. Love to see him squirm when reality bites.
“ Would you say general elections should be once in a lifetime? ”
General election are just about who governs us for the next, nominally, 5 years. Independence elections, including Brexit, are trapdoor elections. Once you’ve left you don’t get to decide about going back, you can ask but the other nations get to decide whether you’re welcome or not. Furthermore you certainly won’t get back on the same terms.
So not a good comparison.
Really comparing general election to a referendum on independence, imagine the instability of having one every few years, also should you then have a rejoin one every few years? Some decisions are so big they need a larger timeframe, especially given that all the polling in Scotland shows no change in the demand for independence and suggests the likely result will be the same as last time. The SNP may argue Brexit changes the circumstances of the last referendum but the public generally doesn’t seem to see it as a good enough reason for another one.
Personally if people want to campaign to rejoin the EU then that’s up to them and if they get a referendum it will also be a fair point for the stay out side to make that we’ve hardly had a chance to see the impact of leaving.
@ Nick Samuels
Who decides what circumstances are extreme?
Why do you think a Nazi victory in the polls should be rejected by force but not a Communist one? [Yes, there has been – one – communist victory in a free election: San Marino (they lost the next election)]
Nick Samuels
You’re new here and I like to think we’re a welcome crowd so let me address your comments (assuming they are genuine) from the first post:
‘I did not support leaving the EU.’
Fair enough
‘But I respect the democratic view of the people.’
That’s good to hear – unusual for an EU supporter – most suggest that because the poll was ‘manipulated by lies’ it should be invalidated and spent many months and countless resources in the courts trying to overturn the result.
‘Although I would prefer it if we voted to re-join the EU. I will support democracy.’
The words ‘EU’ and ‘democracy’ are uneasy bedfellows – it was specifically designed to be anti – democratic.
‘Scotland should be respected and not humiliated into submission.’
Scotland has a level of funding greater than the rest of The U.K. – and contributes very little beyond legislation that North Korea rejected as extreme – how that is being ‘humiliated into submission’ is beyond me
‘I am consistent in respecting the democratic view of each nation.
I support democracy.’
Why am I reminded of the quote relating to counting spoon by Ralph Waldo Emerson?
‘I support democratic results unless a nation wants to carry out genocide or holocausts.’
I think that’s the general consensus – I don’t think Reform U.K. is running on a ticket advocating genocide but in the eyes of the likes of BLM or XR (for example) they would suggest anyone opposing them advocates genocide of ethnic minorities or of the planet? Should the ‘democratic results’ therefore be overturned? Many suggest that Donald Trump was elected last year and overthrown by 17 million fake votes? Was that justified on the grounds his program constituted ‘genocide’? The problem with such terms is that they have been twisted out of all recognition by the likes of Murphy
‘Obviously if the NAZIs were about to win an election. I would not support that.’
But would you accept they had won the election??
It was the earlier cancellation of the Communists which was supported by the Socialists, and the Centre Party leader egged on by the Pope that got the Nazis over the line on the Enabling Act.
Our friend @ Nick Samuels is leaving himself a lot of wiggle room as it’s clear what sort of people he wants out of power, just not what legal amendments he would like to achieve this and whether they would apply just to the Nazis, or the Socialists, or the Centrists or everyone.
Frankly I find it disturbing that a great many would prefer 1) over 2)
1) being not allowing people into power who would like to expel Jews (or their modern day equivalents) from the country or society if they could
2) having a Constitution which does not allow the expulsion of Jews (or their modern day equivalents) from the country or society by anyone, but still allows people you don’t like to be in government
The UK had two referendums on the EU, 41 years apart. Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and all parties agreed it would be a once in a generation event and the SNP specifically made voters aware that voting no to independence could mean Scotland leaving the EU due to a wider UK vote.
There is no reason whatsoever to indulge the SNP calls for a fresh indyref. I’m bored of hearing about it TBH. If they are still bleating in 20 years time, we can set the ball rolling.
Please, please, please, can we have a referendum here in England to get rid of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?
“Scotland has right to hold an election whenever it wants to.”
Until it delivers the ‘right’ result?
So, a referendum is held every 6 months until the independence vote wins and then that’s it? Or is there a vote every 6 months with Scotland possibly popping back in and out of the UK like some argumentative couple constantly having trail separations?
Everyone points to Nazi Germany as if that proves anything. That wasn’t ‘proper’ Fascism.*
*Well, the left always use that argument to say “let’s have another go at Socialism/Communism, all the previous shambolic disasters in other countries weren’t ‘proper'”.
Nick Samuels said:
“If the Scottish people want to be independent. I support that right. If the Scottish people do not want to be independent, then that is their right.”
What if the English people no longer want to be in a union with Scotland?
After all the aggressive whinging from Scotland, many of us would be relieved to see them go.
if a government is carrying genocide or a holocaust then they should be stopped
When a government is carrying out genocide or a holocaust it will have taken the preliminary precaution of suspending the democratic process.
I think that the likes of Nick must be very young or very naive.
If the Union were compared to a divorcing couple, how do you easily and equitably divvy up the belongings and interests accumulated over a long period of time?
It would be akin to solving the Gordian knot.
Sadly, the only Alexander we have available is more interested in how to decorate his digs.
And a question for Nick, how do you feel about the Shetland Islands seceding from Scotland, taking all the North Sea oil rights with them?