Tsk, missing a trick here

Let Scots in whole of UK vote on independence, Boris Johnson is urged

Instead, let the whole of the UK vote on Scottish independence.

Given that the porridge wogs never do restrict themselves to pissing out how many actually want to keep them inside the tent?

65 thoughts on “Tsk, missing a trick here”

  1. I thought part of the Scottish Nationalist Party play book was to piss off the English at all times, with any resulting push back being used to show how they’ve always hated Scotland etc etc.
    We’re it not for the knock on effects for the rest of the Union, I am becoming increasingly tempted to say bye bye to them. However, on more sober reflection I do believe the Union is stronger and better than the sum of its parts.

  2. Just so long as they keep the English in Scotland from voting in exchange — that was the bloc that tipped the last indyref.

  3. Urged, eh?

    The prime minister is also being urged to appoint Ruth Davidson, the former leader of the Scottish Conservatives, to a newly created role of constitutional secretary, making her nominal head of the pro-Union campaign.

    Which raises the question: who bitch this is?

    Who owns and operates Ruth Davidson Ltd? Because her schtick – parroting the exact same tried-and-failed political positions as the rest of the establishment Blob, but being a chubby lesbian while doing it – isn’t very popular in the real world of actual voters. Her main achievement in Scotland was losing repeatedly and badly to Nicola Sturgeon, a palpably stupid woman with the charisma of a genital wart.

    But TPTB love her, can’t get enough of her “How Do You Do, Fellow Conservatives” act. Who, exactly, is laying the astroturf for her?

  4. The Meissen Bison

    By all means let there be a fresh referendum for the Scots where the choices are between:
    1) Full independence from the rUK and
    2) Remain in the union and roll back to the status quo prior to devolution.

  5. As with Brexit, negotiations only start when the referendum is won. They’ll want to keep the Barnett formula, have a seat at the Bank of England, etc.

    I wonder how the DfID budget and the Barnett formula compare?

  6. ‘Instead, let the whole of the UK vote on Scottish independence.’

    I agree that your approach is better Tim.

  7. If they break away, the Barnett Formula should be paid out of the existing total of the DfID’s budget. Let’s not discriminate – it’ll be just another separate country’s begging bowl, pleading for more, their claims as equally valid as all the others.

  8. Bloke in North Dorset

    Why not let Scots get used to the single party state they will become and restrict voting only to fully paid up, and vetted, members of the SNP?

  9. I see no reason why the terms should not be agreed before the vote, so people know what they are voting for. And residents only, with skin in the game. Whether that should be all UK citizen residents, I’m not sure. Only English folk who want to split would vote, others would let the Jockinese decide their own destiny.

  10. I say again: the British government should run the referendum with the question being “Do you want your constituency to secede from the UK?”. Other commenters have suggested that the same referendum be run throughout the UK. I’m persuaded: if Oldham wants to leave, so be it.

  11. N.B. One of the Scottish Euro 2020 footballers has tested positive for Covid. SNP enthusiasts will be asking which effing English player infected him. Because that’s the way their minds work: essentially racist bile directed at the English – though also directed at the wife of a friend of mine because she looks conspicuously foreign. Hey ho.

  12. The problem with Scottish independence is that as soon as they get it they’ll start scheming with the French against us, in every way possible, as they always did despite all the times we had to crush them for it. As an enemy they are best kept closer.

    Otherwise it’s the the Anne Coulter solution:
    Invade their country, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

  13. I’m old enough to remember the SNP insisting they were a civic party, “Scots” were anybody living in Scotland, not a race party.

    And the practical issues – how do you determine who is a non-Scottish-resident Scot? They’re rapidly going down the route of insisting that only people who believe in Scottish independence are Scots. This is simply “we’re going to lose, find some more supporters to include in the vote”. Exactly the same as the insistance that our colonical masters’ colonists should have been allowed a vote in escaping our colonial masters back in 2016.

  14. Jgh hence the proposals to extend the franchise to 16 year olds.

    Anyway I said this 7 years ago and it is still valid. The question on the paper should state

    O. Do you wish Scotland to become a North Atlantic Zimbabwe ?

    O. Please hurry up.

  15. A vote for independence won’t stop their moaning. And given we don’t want a failed state on our border, England would continue to subsidise Scotland for decades to come – obliged to pay over the odds for their green energy in order to meet our climate targets, a King’s ransom to keep our submarines tied up in Faslane, reparations for expropriating the proceeds of North Sea oil…blah, blah, blah. They’ll end up using our hospitals having destroyed their own health service, to say nothing of our guaranteeing pension commitments. Fortunately I can’t see the SNP ever winning a referendum … unless it’s a fit of pique, in the unlikely event England win the European Championship.

  16. Rhoda klapp
    Only English folk who want to split would vote, others would let the Jockinese decide their own destiny.

    But it isn’t just the Scots destiny is it?
    There are two halves to the marriage. Maybe the Scots don’t want to stay, maybe they do. But how come the rest of the UK is never asked if they want Scotland to stay?

    The only fair way is for another referendum to encompass the whole of the UK.

  17. There is no way that people living outside of Scotland should vote in an indy referendum. That would be a disgrace, and humiliation of democracy. Imagine if the people of Scotland voted for independence then had their choice overridden by people who did not even live in the country. It would be a humiliation for Scotland.
    Imagine if Americans with English ancestry decided the future of England. Or even more apt, imagine if your local council seat representative was decided by people who lived outside the seat, just because they had ancestry from there. It is a nonsense. You should only be allowed to vote on where you live, and have residence. You should have one vote per person, living permanently in the country.

    The Meissen Bison – No way. The Scottish people deserve home rule, they voted for it.
    Stop bullying Scotland into submission with humiliating choices. You are trying to humiliate Scotland. The Scottish people voted for home rule in the union and should be allowed it.
    What right to you have to override democracy?
    Why should London and Manchester have mayors, Scotland not have parliament?

    I support whatever the Scottish people want. If Scotland wants independence so be it. If Scotland wants to remain in the UK, and the rest of the UK is happy with that, then we should be allowed to decide if we want to remain in the UK.
    How would you like it if Germans got to decide who ran the UK?
    How would you like it if the French or Americans decided who ran the UK?
    Stop bullying Scotland. Respect the democratic will of the Scottish people, respect that we should decide who leads us, in home rule and whether or not we want to be independent.

  18. “How would you like it if Germans got to decide who ran the UK?
    How would you like it if the French … decided who ran the UK?”

    And yet the SNP is pro-EU: you gotta laugh.

  19. “Imagine if the people of Scotland voted for independence then had their choice overridden by people who did not even live in the country. It would be a humiliation for Scotland.” You seem to think that would be a bad thing. Wrong.

  20. Chris, It would be a bad thing. YOU DO NOT GET TO OVERRIDE THE DEMOCRATIC WILL OF THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE.
    I ask again – How would you like it if Germany, or Russia, or the USA, or France decided who was the UK PM? How would you like it? It would be humiliating. Respect other countries.
    If the Scottish people want to be join the EU after independence that is their choice. Do not bully and humiliate other countries and think you are doing them any good.
    How would you like it if Russia invaded the UK and decided who was our leader?
    The people of Scotland should decide their future.

  21. Stop bullying Scotland into submission with humiliating choices. You are trying to humiliate Scotland

    Trying?

    Ffs, nobody forced the Scottish electorate to elect a woman (?) who looks like, and has the IQ of, an evil animatronic toilet brush as Chief Pudding.

    You do it to yourself, you do
    And that’s what really hurts
    Is you do it to yourself, just you
    You and no one else
    You do it to yourself
    You do it to yourself

  22. PS – How would you like it if Russia invaded the UK and decided who was our leader?

    I don’t think these trousers could contain my joy.

  23. So, how did the last vote go? Do the polls now predict any real change? If the next time the answer is for union, when should the next time be? And if for independence?

  24. The Scots can elect who they want. It is not your write to decide to get rid of a elected Scottish leader just because you do not like her. As I said, how would you like it if the USA or Russia, or Germany decided they did not like Boris so forced us to elect someone else?
    I do not support Boris. But he is an elected leader. I support democracy.
    Respect the democratic will of the Scottish people.

  25. Scotty

    “The people of Scotland should decide their future.”

    For the love of God, stop prattling and get on with it. And don’t let the door slam your butt.

  26. “If Scotland wants to remain in the UK, and the rest of the UK is happy with that, then we should be allowed to decide if we want to remain in the UK.”

    And if the rest of the UK is not happy with that? Won’t it take a UK-wide vote to find that out?

  27. The Meissen Bison

    Devolution was Blair’s attempt to appease nationalism and consolidate Labour dominance of the political landscape. It was a failure on both counts.

    Devolution was neither fish nor fowl so the alternatives are to proceed to proper independence or to reintegrate into the Union.

    Why should London and Manchester have mayors, Scotland not have parliament?

    You know the answer to that one, don’t you?

    Beam me up Scotty.

  28. I’ve generally been in favour of the porridge wogs fucking off as soon as we can Build a Wall but have changed my mind.

    Firstly, as mentioned above, our useless establishment will find a way to let them leech off us in perpetuity but more importantly because the Haggis Nazis will fuck everything up within a year and within five have sold themselves and their nation to the Chinese. Faslane will become a PLA Navy base.

    If the EU is dumb enough to let them in we’d also have hordes of refugees at the Wall.

  29. Bloke in North Dorset

    “ How would you like it if Russia invaded the UK and decided who was our leader?”
    Are you real or a bot?

    We’re not talking about wars here we’re talking about a Union of the Crown and customs.

    Scotland freely entered in to that union, as did England. We’re now talking about Scotland’s position in the Union. If it wants to leave then that affects all parties. I’ll accept that Scotland can vote to leave, but that also means that the rest can vote to throw it out.

    You’re asking for cakeism.

  30. MC

    “Build a Wall”

    Can we build a moat. A really bigly moat. And Scotty can build it…

    “Faslane etc”

    Despite sovereignty, it surely has to be 100% cooperative on military/defence? Otherwise we’re going to need to keep bases? Lossiemouth, Faslane and whatever else is required?

    And Orkney and Shetland might want to make their own Indy decisions unilaterally?

  31. When Czech and Slovakia split into two did both sides vote? Or just one side vote to leave the others? Scotland and England seperating isn’t really Scotland leaving, it’s one entity splitting in two, and the argument for some outside Scotland to be able to vote is the argument for all UK citizens to vote on the future of the UK.

  32. The last referendum was a free hit for the SNP. Any future ones should carry a significant price tag. The deal I would offer is: You can have a referendum any time you like in return for giving up 50% of the Barnet money forever with immediate effect.

  33. @Scottish Person

    “There is no way that people living outside of Scotland should vote in an indy referendum”

    You forget that the rest of the UK and certainly the English may well want to be independent from you. How dare you deny them their democratic right.

  34. “Respect the democratic will of the Scottish people.”

    That’s what Salmond said before the last one.

    Turned out he meant “Respect the democratic will of the Scottish people as long as they agree with me.”

    Since they didn’t (“once in a generation” etc etc) obviously they have to keep on voting until they give the right answer.

    Just like the EU really, no wonder they love it so much.

  35. The Meissen Bison – Blair did not pull devolution out of thin air. The Scottish had been discussing home rule for a century. The SNP had few seats in Scotland at the time. In fact Blair was not bothered about devolution. Home rule was a desired system after 17 years of Tory rule imposed on them against the will of the Scottish people. You cannot just claim Tony Blair was plucking devolution out of thin air. Politicians like Donald Dewar, John Smith, Gordon Brown, the Lib Dems had wanted devolution for decades. You cannot just claim it was a whim from Blair, and that before that no one wanted it.
    I support the Labour Party, but I am happy to accept any party that wins government, as long as they do not support abusing human rights and genocide.
    The Scottish people want home rule.

    MC You are a ranting racist bigot. No one in Scotland can take the opinion of a troll like you seriously.

    Bloke in North Dorset – That is a disgusting humiliating bullying anti-democratic view to hold. Would you have accepted it if the EU had just decided to stop the UK leaving?
    We do need to ask permission to leave if we want to.
    The idea that the rest of the UK has a veto on Scottish independence, is utterly disgusting nonsense. It is bullying another nation. Look at all the nations that left the British Empire. Would you have forced India, and Australia, and Canada to stay?
    As I said, all I support is whatever the Scottish people want. If they want to stay in they can, if they want to leave they can.
    And I totally accept if the rest of the UK doesn’t want, us you can chuck us out.
    You have not bothered to read what I wrote with cakeism argument.
    It is exactly the same as Russia, or the USA., or India, or China forcing the UK to become a state of their nation.

    Henry Crun (or as everyone calls him Henry the C***). Troll.

    jgh Scotland should decide what it wants to do. Would you say all the EU should have been given a vote on whether the UK should be allowed to leave the EU? You cannot have larger nations stopping parts of their nation leaving against their will. It is bullying and humiliating.

  36. decnine – So now you are bullying Scotland into submission. You are being disgusting and humiliating.

    AndyF – If England wants to leave the UK, they can have that right. If the rest of the UK wants rid of Scotland. I accept that. But the decision for Scotland to declare itself independent is up to the Scottish people. Would you allow all Londoners to vote in the Manchester mayoral election? You would end up with London choosing the Manchester mayor. It is utter nonsense.

  37. Maybe we should let the entire population of India vote in UK elections?
    After all it used to be part of the British Empire. And I am sure no one could see any problem with a foreign country’s people holding power over the UK.
    Go on then. You support other countries bullying other nations, when it is England doing it. Why not try it the other way around?

  38. jgh said:
    “When Czech and Slovakia split into two did both sides vote?”

    Neither. The federal parliament voted, there was no referendum (and opinion polls at the time suggested fairly equal majorities against splitting in either part).

    The problem was that neither side was happy with the old system. Rather like the UK, Slovakia wanted more autonomy (but within a federation) and the Czechs objected to having to pay for it. The choice was basically be more unified (keep the subsidy but lose autonomy) or split properly. As the Bison suggests, it’s a fair question.

  39. Scottish Nemania, you’re not fooling anyone. Your pro-EU arguments were shit as are your Scottish independence ones.

  40. Scottish Person – You misunderstand. It’s not a case of many English people wanting England to leave the union: it’s about them wanting to vote to kick the Scottish out. Just as Malaysia chose to give Singapore the boot in August 1965.

  41. Regular commenter

    I hate to think, now this place has been found by the cybernats, what is happening to Tim’s hosting bills.

    Just remember, the SNP are nationalist socialists. And we all know how well that worked out last time a party like that got in to power.

  42. The Pedant-General

    Scottish person

    “The people of Scotland should decide their future.”

    Aye, there’s the rub. The monarch in Scotland is not and never has been the King (or Queen) of Scotland. The monarch is King (or Queen) of **Scots**, the people NOT the place.

    So I agree. The people of Scotland should decide their future.

    I am also a Scottish person. I have now returned to Scotland, but at the time of the 97 referendum I was living in London and my siblings were all also living outside Scotland. We were all disenfranchised.

    At the time of the 2014 referendum, practically all the Highland Regiments and both the Coldstream and Scots Guards were based outside Scotland. The entirety of the Scots contingent of the Army (or at least the only bits worth having) were disenfranchised.

    My family is Scots on both sides as far as back as we can trace. I and all my siblings were born in Scotland. Were Scotland to become independent and we lost rUK citizenship, we would have literally no right to anything except a Scottish passport or nationality.

    Why should those who have no claim to anything except a Scots passport be denied their rights as Scots, **wherever they live**?

  43. The Meissen Bison

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine”.

    P.G.Wodehouse

  44. Henry Crun (Aka Henry the C***). You are a troll, I call a spade a spade and a Henry Crun a c***.

    AndyF I did not misunderstand. I know what you are trying to say. If the rest of the UK wants to kick Scotland out, I accept that as a democrat.
    But I also think the decision of whether Scotland declares independence itself, is purely decided by Scotland. The rest of the UK should not have a veto on Scotland’s decision to leave.

    Regular commentator. I am not a supporter of the SNP. I support the Labour Party. But I RESPECT THE DEMOCRATIC WILL OF TYHE SCOTTISH PEOPLE. Do you understand, what I am trying to say? And the SNP are not NAZIs. You need to grow up. Calling the SNP as NAZIs is disgusting and dangerous.

    The Pedant-General – Lots of American soldiers saved the UK in World War Two. Did that give them the right to a vote in UK elections? Once you start saying people outside Scotland can vote, where does it stop? And to play the soldier or a fireman or policeman card is not acceptable. Where does it stop. Doctors, nurses, teachers, pilots, the coast guard. Is it only people who are doing brave jobs who can vote in two countries?
    If someone moves outside of Scotland they should not vote in Scotland. Regardless of how brave, or heroic soldiers are. I accept soldiers are brave heroes, but you cannot use that as an excuse to be able to vote in two countries. Because where does it stop. Should people be classified on their worth to society on whether they can have a vote. Would I have a vote in Scotland, if I lived outside but my sister was in the army? It would be illogical.

  45. McNewmania, bang to rights.
    We all know it’s you. You can’t even come up with a decent insult. Same old, same old.
    You might be able to roll the Newmania turd in glitter, but it’s still just a load of auld shite.

  46. @SP
    “if someone moves outside of Scotland they should not vote in Scotland. Regardless of how brave, or heroic soldiers are. I accept soldiers are brave heroes, but you cannot use that as an excuse to be able to vote in two countries. “4

    Strange logic. At the point of the vote there are not two countries, there is one, the UK

    Just because some people are temporarily absent from Scotland why would they be denied a vote?

    I realise gerrymandering the vote is important to the SNP but I thought you were arguing for Scots to decide their future, not just the ones that happen to be in Scotland on the day of the vote

  47. I must say dearieme’s suggestion that each UK constituency should vote on whether it wants to remain in the UK has enormous merit. I take my hat off to you Sir, for suggesting it. We might get rid of Hackney that way. Possibly even Liverpool.

  48. I call a spade a spade and a Henry Crun a c***.

    Except you just called Henry a shovel. Type it out, mon.

  49. Wow scottish person
    You have confirmed my belief that scots nats are angry semi literate knuckle draggers with a big chip on their shoulder. And I say that as 1/4 Scottish.
    You made damn fine soldiers for the British Empire tho!

  50. Rex Angliae, Dominus Hiberniae et Dux Aquitaniae

    It is not your write to decide to get rid of a elected Scottish leader just because you do not like her.

    That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo

  51. The Scots Nat position on the EU is fucking hypocritical bollocks.

    “Were fed up with remote unaccountable government from Westminster so we want independence, to then sign up for remote unaccountable government from Brussels.”

    Arseholes.

  52. I do like the intellectual consistency of Scots who voted for SCO to leave the UK, and also for the UK to leave the EU two years later.
    Those who advocate Scottish independence but also think it’s cool for the UK, due to its net contribution and higher population leading to higher QMV rank, to have more say over policies for Polish and Greek landowner subsidies, regional development aid and smoking menthols than they do can go fuck themselves.

  53. The Meissen Bison

    Steve – pitch it a bit later:
    Rex Angliae, Haeres et Regens Franciae, et Dominus Hiberniae

  54. SP: “if someone moves outside of Scotland they should not vote in Scotland.”

    I’ll relay that to my scots friends here in clogland.. I’m sure they’d have a thing or two to chat with you about… Possibly in a very… scottish…manner.

    Seriously, the lot here that I know are as divided on the issue as you can expect, but depriving them on their right as born and bred scotsmen/scot lasses (never make the mistake of calling them “scotswomen”…) simply because they happen to work Abroad…
    You’re in for a drubbing… And the lads will most likely let the ladies go first..

  55. Perhaps the Scots could be given their referendum, and told that the conditions voted for in the rUK referendum would apply.

    The people of the rUK could be asked whether they believe the Scots should ever be given a single penny if they leave.

  56. Perhaps the Scots could be given their referendum, and told that the conditions voted for in the rUK referendum would apply.

    The people of the rUK could be asked whether they believe the Scots should ever be given a single penny if they leave.

    That’s an excellent plan, with just two minor flaws:

    1) Our politicians are all cunts
    2) Our politicians are all cunts

    It’s such a big flaw I thought I’d list it twice.

    I’m sure if we were allowed a referendum then the jocks would be required to pay up their share of the national debt, and have to purchase Faslane etc from us at full market price. And after that they would be told to swivel if they thought they were getting any more of our money. But after the Brexit referendum the establishment is not going to risk asking the voters again, and the politicians will be queuing up to shovel our money at Wee Jimmie Krankie and her band of demented porridge wogs. We can see the equivalent right now with the manufactured outrage over the current attempt to reduce just slightly the funding we send to the Indian space programme, thanks to the billions spent on crashing our economy because of the kung flu.

    I still think the jocks should fuck off soonest though: we’ll still be better off, just not as better off as we could be.

  57. We need a better name than rUK. How about The Union of a Kingdom,Irish province & principality. -UKIPP.

  58. ‘the manufactured outrage over the current attempt to reduce just slightly the funding we send to the Indian space programme’

    BiW: I’ve always considered the giving of aid to India pure bullshit. I’d argue that the Indians owe the UK the cash. After all they failed to maintain sufficient law and order to prevent the French and the locals attacking the East India Company.

    That led to expensive wars, that the British taxpayer had to subsidise. And the rise in taxes to pay for them led to the American revolution and another global war.

  59. TMB.

    “Devolution was Blair’s attempt to appease nationalism and consolidate Labour dominance of the political landscape. It was a failure on both counts.

    Devolution was neither fish nor fowl so the alternatives are to proceed to proper independence or to reintegrate into the Union.”

    I believe Scottish Nationalism is inevitable, because if we stripped away the government system and started again, with 21st technology, we wouldn’t have people in the South of England subsidising a load of Scots. The union only exists today because of wars over land, and fighting requiring lots of humans with swords.

    The value of subsidising Scotland today is negative to the English. It has been for over 50 years. An English nationalist party could exploit this, force reform to the Barnett Formula, which would see more of Scotland looking to leave.

  60. How many f***** times?
    Fair Weather Unionists are as much of a problem as the grievance mongers of the Natzi Party.
    Yet again, unionist parties got the most no of votes, albeit fractured.
    Yet again Fair Weather Unionists want to cuck and give in to them.
    Yet again incessant establishment propaganda convinces many that unicorn farts and other fantasies are true.
    Evidence:
    3 weeks to flatten the sombrero.
    Warble gloaming is solved by spending 10 x as much capital as necessary for intermittent power.
    The SNP are competent.
    Masks work.
    Govts can plan economies.
    All propaganda put out by your favourite BBC.
    Why do you want to cooperatwith some of the BBC agenda?

  61. @Hallowed Be +1:

    I’m from Northern Ireland, and I’d vote for that.

    Hell, I DID vote for that! Can we have Nige for PM too?

  62. The Meissen Bison

    BoM4: The union only exists today because of wars over land, and fighting requiring lots of humans with swords.

    Having a Scottish king on the English throne was possibly also a factor and by the 17th century cannons, mortars and musketry were in use.

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