These are not the same thing

In her blogpost Mad Men, Furious Women, Scaman includes some of the examples she received, but has removed identifying details.

One woman described being sexually assaulted by her boss when she was 24 after he followed her into a toilet cubicle, then suggested they “forget about it” as though it was “consensual or mutual”. “It was neither,” she wrote.

Another found out she was being paid £20,000 less than a man of equivalent seniority and experience,

But of course they are being classed as the same thing, aren’t they?

17 thoughts on “These are not the same thing”

  1. Another found out she was being paid £20,000 less than a man of equivalent seniority and experience,

    Why are women always amazed and outraged when they do nothing to negotiate a better salary and the employer doesn’t offer one out of the goodness of its heart?

  2. One might even argue that someone so ignorant of the market rate for the job, and so limited in negotiating skills, is deservedly paid much less.

  3. It’s a travesty of inequality that only 7% of workplace deaths are women. Something must be done to get more women into dirty, dangerous jobs.

  4. To a whore, sex and money are the same. One is easily converted into the other. I’m sorry, what was her point again?

  5. “they are being classed as the same thing”

    As in “99% of women have been murdered or raped or been made to feel slightly uncomfortable in the presence of a man or know someone who has”

  6. You mean people get shafted in the most unscrupulous sector in industry humans ever invented? Who’da thunk it…

  7. Not also that the whine is about having “equivalent seniority and experience” – outside of gov’t and non-profits, they tend to pay people based on what they produce. But I’ve been hanging around as long as Bob!

  8. OT. Tim, there’s a dishevelled blond idiot on my TV now gibbering about ‘levelling up’. Please hunt him down and explain to him how shit happens to poor people because poor people are the kind of people shit happens to.

    Seriously, it needs the Worstall treatment for its confidence in the power of government to fix a problem when they can’t do their own job now.

  9. Bloke in North Dorset

    “Why are women always amazed and outraged when they do nothing to negotiate a better salary and the employer doesn’t offer one out of the goodness of its heart?”

    Because women think that every company should have a pay structure like the government with everyone getting the same pay, whether they earned it or not. They can’t comprehend the idea of deciding your own worth and going out and negotiating it, or something close. That takes a bit of effort and, more importantly, a willingness to take a risk.

    Oh, and being prepared to be rejected, something men get plenty of practice at the hands of women early on in life.

  10. If she was worth an extra £20k she’d have had plenty of job offers at £10k above her then salary.

  11. BiND,

    “Because women think that every company should have a pay structure like the government with everyone getting the same pay, whether they earned it or not. They can’t comprehend the idea of deciding your own worth and going out and negotiating it, or something close. That takes a bit of effort and, more importantly, a willingness to take a risk.”

    Also, a lot of women just aren’t worth the extra money.

    I remember a drunken evening’s hypothetical around which developers you’d rescue from the burning office. And they were all blokes.

    Men take their work more seriously, because they have to. It’s one of the ways they get (and keep) women. Most female developers I know are strict 9 to 5. They avoid overtime, on call rotas, building side projects, personal development. They’ll go and ask men how to do things, rather than googling it first. And if there isn’t a man around, they’ll tell the boss they don’t know how to do it. Men will figure it out and build it.

    One of the things that is pretty much never mentioned in office sexual politics is how much help young women get from men who are sniffing around them. “Oh I get men making advances at me”. OK, but you also asked that guy to help you debug your shitty broken code and he sat there for 3 hours rewriting it for you, which is a luxury that most men don’t have because men want to get in your knickers. Maybe stop wearing make-up to the office if you want men to stop thinking of you as a sex object.

  12. “Another found out she was being paid £20,000 less than a man of equivalent seniority and experience,”

    Was she doing equivalant of amount/value work?

    “He banged out 20,000 lines of working code last week, I also worked all of last week, writing 10,000 lines of working code, WHY AREN’T I BEING PAID THE SAME>?>?>>”

  13. But, but, but the pay was both “consensual and mutual”. Isn’t that what the complaint was with the sexual advance.

  14. I’ve had comments about why I get an extra weeks vacation and my simple answer is I just asked for it when they offered the job as I was more used to U.K. levels of vacation than North American and they agreed

  15. I must say I’m not used to me the employee setting the wages, that’s the employer’s job. “This job pays X, take it or leave it”.

    But my current job I was asked “what are are you usually paid?”
    My last projects have been between X and Z.
    “Ok, they’re aiming to pay between W and Y, but we’ll make sure you get Z”.

  16. Long ago an industrial employer was trying to tempt me to stay there, if only for a little while, rather than return to academic life.

    “I’ll pay you double your academic salary.” Pause. “What is your academic salary?”

    So I told him.

    “Christ, that’ll not do. I’ll pay you thrice your academic salary.”

  17. Rhoda–Blojob J was rambling meaningless bollocks.

    He still has his plan for more LDs to force vax pass to social credit tyranny.

    But it looks as if tsunami is finally heading in. Inflation “tax” plus rising interest rates –that will force more of tax take to go on interest on what they borrowed so far. Plus his planned taxes on decent living–salt/sugar/meat etc and his increasingly stalled greenfreak moneyfest.

    And forcing employers to pay more for furloughed employees doing zilch until September. And many likely signing on to UC then.

    All adds up to bad econ news for Johnson gang.

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