A particularly stupid way of beating the petrol queues

Yes, obviously, you’re not going to be queuing for petrol:

“There is no way you would want to build 15 minutes into your journey to stop and stand there in all weathers squirting flammable toxic stuff into the side of your car, and pay 80 quid for the privilege, unless you had to. The one thing that an EV [electric vehicle] driver will tell you they never ever want to do again is go to a petrol station.”

Substituting over to something that takes 2 hours to fill up seems a strange way to beat the queue.

33 thoughts on “A particularly stupid way of beating the petrol queues”

  1. If you charge the car overnight then you are charging it whilst you are asleep (or doing some else).

    I think this is more of an issue if you travelling long distance and you need to stop for a charge. a five hour drive with a 15 minute break to refuel turns into a 7 hour journey. This would not be too bad if the lunches at service stations were actually decent.

  2. “The car” is a bit of a giveaway.
    Charge one car overnight and wot about the other 2 vehicles?
    Advantage to the IC plant food producing type of energy generation.

  3. Very good point. A family with two adult children could have four cars. That would be tough to charge overnight. Commuting might be OK: If a charge is enough for 4 days commuting then you could take it in turns to charge overnight.

    Employers and owners of industrial estates are responding by adding charging points to some of the parking spaces. It would require more – a charing point for every parking space. This would help as if you can get to work you can plug in whilst you work.

    But this does show that electric vehicles will require a big change in infrastructure that will cost the nation money and force people to think differently about their car.

  4. If a charge is enough for 4 days commuting then you could take it in turns to charge overnight.

    Until the power has to be rationed and the smart grid decides you don’t qualify for electricity tonight.

  5. Remember, ‘you’ can only charge ‘the’ car overnight if there aren’t too many yous

    if every household replaced all its IC vehicles with electric ones, you’d get to charge your car one night out of what – 5? 30? 100?

    Until the grid and generation capacity was upgraded nationally. Or perhaps you can charge your car only when it’s windy? It certainly isn’t sunny at night, so that’s out.

    Your battery is apparently a ~60KWh beast. If you “just commute” you may do 50 miles a day, an effective perhaps 100 miles per day if you use the heater in winter or the AC in the daytime. If your range is 200 miles with that sized battery, that’s 25-50% capacity, so 15 to 30 KWh whacked into the machine. It seems that yer typical UK house has about 20KW capacity contracted for, but it is said that the supply companies actually budget for way less than this – an alleged 2KW – on the assumption that not all the houses are using the 20KW simultaneously. It appears that fast chargers will take about the same current as your all-electric stove will all the burners and oven going at once – perhaps 30A. But even if you charge at ordinary 13A rates, you’ll be using 10A x 240V = 2.5KW continuously, so just charging the car uses all the said-to-be-available current, and that runs for hours.

    Long story short, electric cars are the playtoys of the rich, because of the implications for the grid and supply infrastructure. Proper ecoloons would have nothing to do with them. Monbiot would prefer you just cut your throat, because there is no place for rich people on this planet. And if you have an electric car, you’re rich.

  6. Every night you get home and insert a bunch wires into the side of your car, only a couple of millimetres of plastic insulation between you and certain death. Each morning you wake up to the relief that the car has managed to stop its batteries from overcharging and burning both car and house down… this time.

    You can be melodramatic about anything.

  7. It takes probably 3 min tops to fill up a petrol car, and that includes going in to pay. I have measured this many times by trying to grab a quick smoke while my wife fills up hers, I’ve never even got halfway through before she’s ready. (Being a lovely person she pulls into a parking spot to clear the pump and waits). And that gets us 600 – 800kms range depending on the type of driving.

    Also +1 Matt

  8. 2 hours? Telegraph had a video diary of a journalist lad’s experience of using an electric car for a week. For the bit over 200 miles he covered he spent around 6 hours in activities around getting it charged. Since it was street parked, he didn’t have the option of overnight home charging (Like half of car owners) There was the night it spent in a car park 15 minutes walk away from his home at a cost of £22. The interlude of trying to find a working quick charge point on his one medium distance jaunt. First one didn’t. Second one even further off route did but had someone already plugged into it necessitating a wait. Everything had to be planned around being able to charge the car. OK if you’re a journalist & your time is worth virtually zero. But heaven knows what electric car use is going to do to wider productivity. At my earnings that would have been well over £500

  9. BiTiN

    I can’t find it now, but I used to have a table for comparing charging times. On a 13A plug, you’d be drawing 3KW. For a full charge from flat that would typically take 10hours ( I think that this was on a Leaf).

  10. Having read the comments I conclude that if the country goes completing over to electric cars then it is not just an infrastructure problem but a problem of people having to change the attitude to car use and ownership. Some people will be able to make car ownership work in an all electric world. However, for some people it will mean owning a car will simply no longer make any sense at all. For some people out there that is probably the actual goal of pushing electric cars.

  11. “Being a lovely person she pulls into a parking spot to clear the pump and waits”

    Does that work? I would have thought that the next person starting to fill would mess up the meter reading for the cashier. “Paying for pump number 3 please.” “That’s 5 quid, no 6 quid, no 7 quid, no….”.

  12. jgh, I wasn’t sure of petrol prices in the UK, but I’m assuming that number is inflated too? In Australia our Mazda3 (55 litres I think) costs about $75 to fill up from close to empty, so about £35 to £40? Or would you expect more?

    Also, State governments here (despite minimal take-up of EVs so far) are already talking about mileage charges to prevent the loss of revenue from fuel taxes. I guess government can move quickly when a revenue source is threatened! So whatever operating cost gap there is going to narrow pretty quickly.

  13. jgh. I assume the next person is frustrated to find that the pump will not reset to zero nor delivery commence until the previous transaction has paid. (Or does the till have a memory? it which case can the cashier keep track of all the transactions.)

  14. “Does that work? I would have thought that the next person starting to fill would mess up the meter reading for the cashier.”

    It works. I sometimes clear the pump before paying if there is a queue or if I am going to spend time in the shop. The next person can start filling without any problem and the cashier can see separate bills.

  15. Based on the people I know with electric cars, they can be fine as a second small car that is just used for errands or running about town. That’s assuming you can park it in your own garage with ready access to a power plug. My wife is thinking she might like one. However, if you actually want a vehicle you can take on a road trip or into remote areas, then you are setting yourself up for an ordeal. If you are the type of person who relishes wearing a hair shirt or self flagellation, then perhaps taking a trip where you spend most of your time worrying about the next charge might be just the adventure you want. There are plenty of articles where someone has done just that, with the conclusion inevitably being “see, it can be done”.

  16. Works both ways, bis, there’s plenty of stuff Mrs Ltw has trained me into too. That whole give and take thing, you know? E.g, anything to do with our rental property (tenants, maintenance, council stuff) is automatically my problem. She wants to know it’s fixed of course, but the question of who is going to fix it doesn’t even come up.

  17. When, as is so common as to merit “usual”, the marginal generator of UK electricity is the coal-fired power station and/or the burner of wood pellets imported from the USA, the charging of an electric car causes more CO2 than the burning of petrol for an equal mileage.
    salamander is presumably correct that *some* people are just trying to prevent oiks owning cars, but most people just do not know what they are talking about.

  18. I’m waiting for a smartarse to tell me I should replace my modest diesel engined motorhome with an EV version – even if one was available at a price I could afford. I currently have a minimum of 500 miles range on a full tank (with heater or A/C running as needed), and even allowing for diesel frothing when filling, I’m not at the pumps for more than 6-7 minutes. A UK car licence holder can now drive an “Alternately Fuelled” vehicle of up to 4.25 tonnes (3.5t previously) to give some hope of a reasonable payload, but that won’t include anything like 500 miles range.

    And where would said smartarse suggest I might charge this hypothetical M/H ? Forget using the mains hook-up at a typical campsite – the very most these are rated at is 16amps (or about 3.5kW). But in practice only a limited number of campers can draw that current without tripping the supply, and some sites now specifically ban the charging of EV’s! It’s obvious that we are being “persuaded” to reduce our driving one way or another, and any hope of enjoying a few years of my retirement appears more unlikely by the day…

  19. “electric cars, they can be fine as a second small car that is just used for errands or running about town”: an electric bike might do for much of that and be a good deal more practical.

  20. However, for some people it will mean owning a car will simply no longer make any sense at all. For some people out there that is probably the actual goal of pushing electric cars.

    It is not “some” people. It is the whole point of the exercise, “they” want to take away your mobile autonomy and force you to use public transport, meaning that you can only travel to specified places. Those who insist on having a car will be charged per mile and carry a GPS tracker so that every movement is logged.

  21. We could probably work it with one diesel vehicle & one electric one, but I won’t be buying an electric one any time soon until the cost comes down. And by that time the cost of charging will have massively gone up because of the tax TPTB will need to levy.
    I hope I can stick with diesel until I have to give up my licence.

  22. @Matt Well said, exactly what I thought as soon as I read the original comment.

    @jgh & @djc. The system (it’s all computer driven these days) will record more than one transaction. I don’t know if it’s limited, but I would think it would make sense to restrict how many transactions to hold in the queue for any pump so as to minimise the scope for cockups. So definitely no problem (on any “modern” setup) to start the next fuelling transaction before the first one is paid for. I would imagine the biggest problem is not having the cashier think you are about to drive off without paying !

    @John77 I agree (but I don’t know if “more CO2” is accurate). But you try explaining to a renewables nutter the realities of marginal generation – all the ones I’ve had “conversations” with over the years are completely convinced that when they plug in their Toyota Pious (other models available now) that it somehow uses green lecky that was otherwise not being used. Either that, or they genuinely believe that all they get are the green electrons from the windmills.
    None of them accept that their cars are gas or coal powered which is really the situation. It’s really “interesting” when your employer’s client is one of them, and you somehow have to look after their IT without telling them where to stick their nonsense (or words with that general meaning !).

  23. You lads almost get it. Elec cars=”no cars for plebs”. And “pleb” will be expanded until it includes everyone outside the Zil classes.

    So I wont be having an elect car or a heat sink p-o-s freezing my house. If that means a violent encounters with costumed thugs so be it. I have no desire to die miserably in some NHS shithole.

  24. Ottokring has it right. It’s not about replacing your IC car with an EV. It’s about you not owning a vehicle any more.

    People pushing this all-EV future aren’t delusional about where all the extra electricity is going to come from. It’s not coming at all, and they know full well what they have planned for you.

  25. You could always drive an all electric car with a genny in the boot. The diesel ones will run on cooking oil, a Stirling Cycle Engine will run on anything that burns.

  26. @Stonyground
    That’s what a ‘hybrid’ is, though they all have petrol engines because the continual start/stop required isn’t good for diesels. It’s doubtful whether a hybrid is much more efficient than a straight diesel.

  27. Simon – yep. Some time ago I filled up at the local station, paid, got the VAT receipt to run it through the books, and buggered off.

    Late next day, realised the receipt was wrong – I had somebody else’s. Which was for much less (no prizes for guessing what I would have done if it was for more).

    Popped in the next day (so T+2) to see if they could re-print the receipt. Which the helpful bloke behind the counter did (he couldn’t half rabbit when he got going). Did help that the transaction time was as near as dammit the same, and I could remember the amount I paid.

    Apparently, they can go back quite a way, if need be (and if they’re not busy and can be arsed).

  28. Three EV Negatives

    1
    Chevrolet Bolt owners told not to park within 50ft of property or other vehicles to reduce the risk of spreading any potential fires stemming from defective batteries
    https://www.driving.co.uk/news/chevy-bolt-ev-fire-risk-50ft/

    2
    “Don´t kid yourself: electric cars won´t save you money”
    Road pricing would obliterate the incentive to buy an electric car, says Ross Clark
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/31/dont-kid-electric-cars-wont-save-money/

    3

    As of May 30 next year, any new home charger being installed must be a “smart” charger, connected to the internet and able to employ pre-sets that limit their ability to function from 8am to 11am and 4pm to 10pm. This is to avoid putting the electricity grid under stress at times of peak demand, potentially preventing blackouts.

    The government will also be able to impose a “randomised delay” of 30 minutes on individual chargers in certain areas to prevent grid spikes at other times.

    The Department for Transport has lodged a draft statutory instrument with the World Trade Organisation mandating that all home or workplace charging points “incorporate pre-set default charging hours which are outside peak hours.”

    Sources
    1 https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2021/09/13/charge-points-to-be-switched-off-for-nine-hours-to-protect-grid
    1 https://www.driving.co.uk/news/environment/ev-chargers-switch-off-peak-times-blackouts/

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