It won’t be fun finding this out

But it will be interesting:

Flu deaths could hit 60,000 in worst winter for 50 years, say experts
More than 35m people will be offered jabs after health chiefs warn that lockdowns and social distancing have led to a drop in immunity

OK, so we’ve all got less immunity as a result of isolation.

But it’s also true that vast numbers of those likely to be carried off by a respiratory infection have been. So we’re short on people vulnerable.

What the nett effect is going to be, well…..

34 thoughts on “It won’t be fun finding this out”

  1. Honestly, does anyone listen to a word these idiots say any more? Their bias is blatantly obvious.

  2. Adjusted for population, the 1968 Asian flu epidemic killed 96,000 in the UK.
    And flu killed them.
    Not ‘with flu’, not ‘got run over by a bus and died but tested positive for flu’, not ‘went into hospital with a broken leg, got flu in hospital then died flu’, just flu (and it’s consequent infections).

    It will be interesting to see over the next few years, the number of people who succumb to viruses, cancers, heart problems, strokes, blood diseases, lung/breathing problems and to also then compare the incidence between the jabbed and the unjabbed………..

  3. Well, kids are vulnerable to ‘flu in a way they’re not to ‘vid, so we’re only short on one side of the age range…

  4. @Addollf

    “Adjusted for population, the 1968 Asian flu epidemic killed 96,000 in the UK.”

    In 1918 the ‘Spanish’ flu killed an estimated 228,000 in the UK. That year deaths exceeded births.

    Adjusted for population growth that’s around 400,000 at current numbers.

    The good thing is that despite people like spud desperately hoping that the current pandemic will ‘change everything’ about the way we live, the Spanish flu had been pretty much forgotten within a couple of years and things returned to normal.

  5. The Spanish Flu was also an equal opprtunities killer. One was just as likely to die from it as a young and fit person ( eg soldiers ) as an old codger.

    Of course, in those days, with a much smaller state ( what you mean that they didn’t have Diversity Managers ?), there was no choice but to “just get on with it.”

  6. USA Army stats showed those who gor the flu shot were more vulnerable to corona virus(ie cold) infection in winter 2017-8 but hey the manufacturers got paid. Flu shots became megaprofitable after NIH changed criteria for diagnosing flu epidemiologically sometime early 2000s when suddenly the numbers were sufficiently scary. I am eager to try the two safe generics effective on Wuflu on influenza…

  7. Ljh, the jabs are Alpha variant spike proteins. I’ve seen some info on the level of antibody resistance in those jabbed being reduced against other strains of covid (hence the ‘breakthrough’ cases in Israel)and other viruses including flu.

    I was going to post the link in my first comment but have had an IT issue and have lost some stuff (yeah, I know. The dog ate my homework).

    AndrewC: “Adjusted for population growth that’s around 400,000 at current numbers”. What do you reckon that given a year or two that’s how many they will say were killed by the ‘rona?

  8. I’ve had the ‘flu jab for the last several years, I know it’s not terribly effective, but every little helps (I had ‘flu in 1968 when I was in my late teens – a similar thing would kill me now).

    Only thing that concerns me about this-year’s vaccine is whether it’s a “traditional” denatured-virus version or whether the manufacturers are being “clever” and have released a super-dooper-new-mRNA version. If the former I’ll have it, if the latter, not a chance.

  9. Baron, people are already voicing the concern that TPTB will ‘include’ the covid crap with the annual flu jab and not tell anyone…..

    Also, I discovered there is such a thing as “Original Antigenic Sin”. The first flu type you are exposed to in life limits your immune response for the rest of your life.

  10. the Spanish flu had been pretty much forgotten within a couple of years and things returned to normal.

    Well, yarp. But in 1918-19 TPTB and the citizenry wanted things to return to normal.

    Is that the case now? I think a lot of people enjoy being told what to do, and of course signalling their virtue over their enthusiastically slavish obeisance to arbitrary medical diktats.

    Remember when dentists gave badges and sugar free lollies to children as a reward for being good little boys and girls? That, but for chronologically grown adults.

  11. Bloke in North Korea (Germany province)

    Well, you get new people entering the “vulnerable” category every year, just as you get people entering the population by birth and leaving it by death. Vulnerable of course, unlike being post-born and pre-dead is not really a categorical thing, but still.

    And this could still be scaremongering as it’s challenging to discern a real effect of lockdowns on mortality. This doesn’t support the “isolation caused weak immune systems” hypothesis. But who knows.

    “It will be interesting to see over the next few years, the number of people who succumb to viruses, cancers, heart problems, strokes, blood diseases…”

    This will be a very, very long tail that merely establishes a new baseline.

  12. Adollfff – I’d never heard of that before, but this doesn’t look like good news for people who’ve cheerfully gotten multiple vaccine injections:

    Researchers found reduced antibody responses to the 2009 pandemic H1N1 influenza vaccine in individuals who had been vaccinated against the seasonal A/Brisbane/59/2007 (H1N1) within the previous three months

    Maybe vaccinating billions of people who were never at any statistically significant risk from any of the Covid variants we’ve seen so far will turn out to be a bad move, particularly if the virus continues to mutate?

    Probably not in the I AM LEGEND style apocalyptic fantasy of mass death that both Covidians and Vaxxophobes seem to enjoy imagining, but it might be the case that young, healthy people are more at risk of serious health problems if they’re jabbed because the risks associated with Covid itself are so low.

  13. They were warned about this repeatedly last year but the persisted with policies rooted in CoVid being the only disease on the Planet. Mankind cannot defeat Nature.

    ‘ But it’s also true that vast numbers of those likely to be carried off by a respiratory infection have been. So we’re short on people vulnerable.’

    This is not necessarily so.

    SARS CoV 2 and influenza virus do not share the same target group or range. The former targets the elderly, 75 plus and in poor health and hardly at all younger age groups in good health, the latter can affect all ranges and those in good health.

    Frequently ‘flu mostly targets younger people, particularly infants and babies leaving older age groups virtually untouched – see Spanish ‘flu and more recent ‘flu epidemics. And don’t leave out Common Cold which can be serious and fatal in some, particularly babes and infants. There are already indications that pædiatric departments are filling up with non-CoVid respiratory cases significantly in parts of the USA.

    Since most of the CoVid deaths have been over 75 with few under that age, that leaves no shortage of vulnerable, immune-deprived young people for influenza.

    Influenza vaccines are at best on average 50%; this drops to 15% or less over 65 and down to single digits where health is poor.

    But will influenza vaccination become part of the passport scheme and track and trace?

  14. BiNK(GP);

    “it’s challenging to discern a real effect of lockdowns on mortality.”

    Well, may be. May be not.

    Lockdown basically introduced a 12~18 month delay for patients who were in the diagnostic queue, or about to enter it, and thus delay the start of actual treatment, for a whole range of conditions/diseases.

    Those conditions are now 12~18 months more serious, and thus less likely to respond to the first rounds of treatment – which might have to be more aggressive than it would have been otherwise.

    I’d expect that annual deaths will increase out to 2023/4, then start to fall 2025/6, with a corresponding fall in the life expectancy numbers visible from 2028/30 or so.

  15. Bloke in North Korea (Germany province)

    Ducky,

    I don’t dispute that lockdown is on many levels an unprecedented disaster, quite possibly the worst self-inflicted disaster in human history. The thing is that while we reach that conclusion easily by logic, reaching it on the basis of solid data is going to be substantially more difficult, because of the challenges of attribution (covered up for covid as if you die after a test you died of it) and the vast length of time that this is going to play out for.

    We are still worse off than we would have been had the second world war not happened, but we aren’t in a position to notice it. Lockdown’s long tail will be similar.

  16. But will influenza vaccination become part of the passport scheme and track and trace?

    The logic already baked in to Elf Fascism indicates yes. (Tho I’m aware logic has little to do with this)

    In Scotland, where they’ve enthusiastically gone ahead with the government spyware programme to spite the English, they’ve already admitted the purpose of vaccine passports is not about protecting people from Covid (or they’d allow unvaccinated people who have recovered from Covid to get one).

    It’s to “encourage” you to get jabbed by taking away your civil liberties until you give in. I think we’ve been relatively lucky so far to avoid the kind of public-private partnership for medical authoritarianism they’ve got in the US and Australia, where private sector employers now believe they have the right to compel you to get jabs. But would you put anything past this “Conservative” government?

    Incidentally, the Spartans were disgusting arseholes and the Great King Khshayarsha did nothing wrong. But it is true that once you offer earth and water in tribute you have already surrendered to all the demands yet to come.

  17. I no longer trust any Govt bullshit and haven’t had flu jab in years. I’ll take my chances this year also. As for my immune system–the dog snuffles through shite of all kinds and then licks me–I figure I’ll survive.

  18. Strange considering we have been told that precisely no-one died from the flu last winter. Almost as if those “Covid death” figures weren’t entirely genuine.

  19. BiNK(GP);

    “while we reach that conclusion easily by logic, reaching it on the basis of solid data is going to be substantially more difficult”

    Yeah, which is why I would anticipate a coherent (as opposed to fire-fighting) policy response around 2032/5 on the above (randomly guessed) timescale. Don’t know how the electoral cycle pans out.

  20. (i) Annual death-by-flu figures don’t come from autopsies. They are estimated using – gasp! – a mathematical model. Are they any more certain than reported Covid deaths? Who knows? The whole cause-of-death business is often far more uncertain and approximate than most people seem to believe. There’s often no unambiguous cause of death that a doctor can infer because most people who die are old and have multiple illnesses.

    (ii) Anyway, flu jabs: “no evidence indicated that vaccination reduced hospitalizations or mortality among elderly persons”.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32120383/

  21. Bloke in North Korea (Germany province)

    “where private sector employers now believe they have the right to compel you to get jabs.”

    Indeed. On the basis of one spittle-flecked rant at a press conference.

    A month since then and neither hide nor hair of the supposedly imminent legislation.

  22. Steve, Tractor Gent @ 10.52 beat me to it.

    Got the link back but it now shows “This video has been removed for violating YouTube’s Community Guidelines”. Luckily, it is on BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/video/IGD1MXf3cxza/

    One single example but if he is the only one to have tested for this who knows if it is an aberration or something to worry about.

  23. It’s not clear that immunity against flu will be lower. Against colds, maybe. Most people have one or two colds a year for their immune system to practice on, so that could make a difference. But most people don’t get flu every year, so would not necessarily be in a different position this year. And, of course, some people may have developed habits which are protective – interacting less closely with others and being more reluctant to keep going out and spreading disease when they are ill.

    @Addolff
    Einstein was a patent clerk for a short period at the beginning of his career, some of which was before he got his PhD. A few years after, he was recognised and started the more typical series of jobs in academia. Furthermore, the jobs of patent clerk is in no way unscientific. In contrast, chiropractic is quack medicine, which no medic should be associated with.

  24. We’ve just been told by email that mandatory vaccination is coming for all employees, the argument given was that the government is doing it so we may as well follow suit
    Interestingly legally here at least a mandatory vaccination policy means that any adverse effects are considered a workplace injury which you would think might give some pause to private companies.

  25. “we may as well follow suit”: any intelligent exemptions allowed e.g. for those previously infected?

  26. Given how craven judges have become it’s little wonder companies aren’t seeming to be worried about what even the local government admits is legally a grey area unless there’s been a govt health order as with care homes
    Example of spineless judiciary….https://youtu.be/GbUDif6cJsg

  27. Charles, totally irrelevant. The crux of the matter is ‘is he right’, are the results of his tests replicable and of value to our understanding? He may have stumbled upon something that no one else was looking at.

    One famous climate scientist is ridiculed because he is a christian. Perhaps you believe anything he says can be disregarded too.

    People seem to be so happy with censorship these days.

  28. @ Addolff

    If I was looking to convince people I had found something of interest, I probably wouldn’t start with someone who is unlikely to understand the results presented. Did you know he wasn’t an MD before you presented the link? Did it not suggest to you he might be wrong?

    Now I realise that you’ll just discount this as counter-propaganda, but there is an rebuttal here – https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/07/youtube-videos/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-weaken-immune-system/ which quotes 2 actual MDs that say his interpretation is incorrect:

    https://medicine.uiowa.edu/microbiology/profile/stanley-perlman
    https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-people/adalja/

    For me, as an observer, wanting to make a decision on which way to go, I think my money would be on the MDs even if I’m not a big fan of the way the CV-19 pandemic has been handled and haven’t had the vaccinations.

    If you watch the video you posted at 07:30 in, the result are presented and they are only just outside the normal ranges. That doesn’t suggest to me that is had a massive adverse effect. Medicine is not an exact science – in fact, outside of the mechanical stuff (broken bones etc) it’s pretty much trying stuff until you find something that works. More informed that random chance but not much more so.

    Might I be wrong, sure. But on the “evidence” outlined I’m still going place my cash on the chiropractor being wrong.

  29. Sceptic, The problem is that at this moment NO ONE knows what these drugs do. There will be theories put out there and some will be proven right and some wrong.If he is wrong the evidence will prove him to be so. To discount what he says because his training / expertise is in another field is mad. Alfred Wegener was a meteorologist. It took the scientific ‘experts’ who rubbished his theory about continental drift 50 years to accept he was right.

    The way certain ‘opinions’ are being censored, over covid, the jabs, climate change et al is not the right way to advance our knowledge.

  30. @ Addolff

    Yes, new ideas come up all the time and disprove old ones. This even happens with people “outside” of the field in question. How far outside that is can happen is debatable however – your two examples thus far are a patent clerk (Einstein) and a weatherman (Wegener).

    Charles provided a rebuttal to your Einstein example, so let’s take a look at Wegener.

    Despite having a background in meteorology he was also a geophysicist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wegener) so was involved in the study of how the earth works thus not an outsider.

    But his published works on continental plate drift were from 1915 and it did indeed take around 50 years for them to be accepted.

    However that doesn’t take into account at least two things:
    1) His calculations for the speed of plate movement was way off which meant it wasn’t obvious it was correct.
    2) He died in 1930 so wasn’t there to promote/defend his theory against detractors for much of that 50 year time period.

    I’m saying it’s not a great analogy for a chiropractor that has misinterpreted the blood results as you are suggesting.

  31. Wegener was right, so all credit to him, but he simply made the observation (often made since the first good maps were produced in the 16th century) that Africa and Europe ‘fit’ the east coast of the Americas – there are biological arguments for this, too, such as related tarantula families on opposite Atlantic coasts. He had no mechanism to explain how his proposed ‘continental drift’ might be possible, so was justifiably ignored. It took the discovery of mid-ocean ridges in the 50s to provide a plausible mechanism, after which his theory came to be accepted.

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