And we face the most massive immediate crisis as a result. There is evidence that one in ten people who get omicron many get long Covid, with massive consequences.

Gosh. Do we still say “citation needed” these days?

34 thoughts on “Rilly?”

  1. The Ely Ego must by now be visible from the International Space Station.

    “I don’t by any means always agree with Paul Krugman, but that does not mean he cannot be right.”

  2. Bloke in North Dorset

    Is he proposing we take the same steps as Wales, Scotland and Ireland? Because they’re working so well there:

    https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1477266499748388866?s=20

    Or is he suggesting we do the same as France, Germany, Belgium and Spain?

    https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&minPopulationFilter=1000000&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=ICU+patients&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=GBR~DEU~FRA~ESP~BEL

  3. Long Covid? I first experienced symptoms of presumably omicron Boxing Day, felt pretty shit for a couple days & really shook it off yesterday. Today, back to normal. I’m in my 8th decade now.
    Sure a couple days eating virtually nothing due to no appetite & no exercise for a week has left me a bit sub par, so about time I kicked myself up the arse & got back in gear. Will power.
    Something that so many people lack, these days. Self molly-coddling, hypochondriac wimps. I’m not sure if I’m just unusually healthy & rarely ill or lack the time or interest to feel ill. Mostly the latter, I guess.

  4. @Longrider…

    True. And aren’t we lucky that “Long Covid” isn’t like the PVS after recovering from “West Nile Disease” – it has an average duration of five years!

  5. Longrider is correct. Btw post viral fatigue is no joke, it’s fucking horrible to have lingering exhaustion and no effective treatment*, you might end up killing yourself if you could summon the energy. Unfortunately if you’re disposed to that sort of thing, any kind of sniffles might trigger it. But vaccines can also trigger it.

    There’s nothing special about Chinese Flu other than how hilariously cockblocked the medical fascists are over how mild Omicron is.

    *a low dose of amphetamines works, but good luck getting a prescription for that

  6. The evidence for long Covid after omicron cannot be extensive since Omicron has only been around for about six weeks.

  7. @Steve
    If low dose amphetamine works with PVF then PVF is subjective, not objective. The speed provides a degree of chemical backbone. Which is all speed ever does, anyway.

    I think people have forgotten what being tired, being hungry, being thirsty etc actually are. Because most people never actually experience any more than very mild occurrences, quickly remedied. It’s like “stress” & people telling me how “stressed” they are. With what, FFS?

  8. A while back, pre-omicron, I saw a report of a study on long covid. It turned out that many of the sufferers had had no antibody evidence of having contracted covid at all.

    So the questions are (i) how many long-covideers are just hysterics, (ii) how many are suffering a pretty ordinary post-viral fatigue, (iii) how many, if any, are suffering from a new medical condition?

  9. “A while back, pre-omicron, I saw a report of a study on long covid. It turned out that many of the sufferers had had no antibody evidence of having contracted covid at all.”

    This one possibly:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/technicalarticleupdatedestimatesoftheprevalenceofpostacutesymptomsamongpeoplewithcoronaviruscovid19intheuk/26april2020to1august2021

    5% of people who had covid reported long covid type symptoms, whereas 3.4% of people who had never had covid also reported the same symptoms. So the true prevalence of LC is probably 1-2%, the rest being the types who infest GP surgeries on a daily basis.

  10. Is “long covid” prevalence directly proportional to public sector employment?

    The arrival of Omicron and “isolation” was certainly fortuitous re the festive season.

  11. @Flatcap Army

    “Wasn’t he predicting half a million deaths back in the early days?”

    Depending on his definition of “deaths”, eventually he could be proven right.

    My personal prediction is that most people who have tested positive will die within 28000 days of their test and rest within 42000 days.

  12. Never accept an NHS appointment for an operation on a Friday when the next Monday is a Bank Holiday. Because a crucial worker won’t pitch up and all your preparation for the op will be wasted. Experience speaks!

    P.S. Thanks, Jim.

  13. Having had the nastier, being hospitalised, case of Covid it left me pretty flat but that’s what I’d expect from having been that ill. I agree it’s partly willpower as you can get stuck in a rut of using Covid as an excuse especially where lockdown had lead to a decrease in physical activity in the first place. I’m part of a study on covid effects that will require quarterly checkups and scans for 18 months and to date nothing physical found, I complained getting back into shape has been slower than last time and doctors said to be expected etc while my wife pointed out I’m also a decade older and now have an ankle held together with plates and screws and have been much less active the last couple of years which may be more relevant

  14. Bloke in North Dorset

    My brother has “long Covid” more than 18 months after being amongst the first to be hospitalised. He’s was even classified as having it.

    He was a type 2 diabetic who never took any steps after he’d been diagnosed and remained seriously obese. This led to him needing a toe amputated. He got Covid before that was evening close to heeling and spent 8 days on a ventilator.

    Since he came out of hospital he’s done nothing to get his weight down and remains obese. He’s now being told he’s likely type 1 and has been close to renal failure and there’s a risk of him needing dialysis.

    He hasn’t mentioned it for a while so I don’t know if he’s still classified as having long Covid. There’s no doubt Covid and being on a ventilator had an affect on his health, but until he gets his weight down its hard to see how his current condition can be called long Covid or even attributed to Covid or the ventilator.

  15. The P3 emits his ‘words of wisdom’ like a speak-your-weight machine which was programmed centuries ago. P3 = Pompous Puerile Prattle!

  16. I can state with conviction that most people speak from a position of complete ignorance of the condition. The issue is of course that there are a lot of people without willpower who look for an excuse and subconsciously shrink These people get better with exercise regimes and CBT. The PVS crowd don’t, exercise can make them worse. The PVS crowd consequently get told they are malingerers and need to exercise.

    PVS is a real thing but the medical profession, and many on here, appear to think it is ONLY malingerers. People hide this condition as there is social stigma attached to this.

    I suffered from it in 2015-2016. I was so fatigued that I couldn’t move *at all* for hours, have (near spontaneously!) fallen asleep on a hard floor for a couple of hours as I had zero energy, have had full nights of sleep and woken as if I had never been asleep. I had career issues and only through very disciplined living (very healthy food and lifestyle) have I recovered. Alas it’s back in a lighter form after COVID it come back.

    I saw a consultant who ordered pretty much every blood test available on the sheet. Everything came back ‘normal’. The diagnosis is one of elimination. You don’t have cancer, aids, liver failure, etc yet you are unwell therefore its mental or physical. The mental was covered by screening questions about life, career and so on.

  17. The four WhOaMicron patient Zeros in Gabarone in November 2021 are rather curious … foreign diplomats (unidentified country) and they scarpered pronto…

  18. BiS – yes, fatigue is subjective. That’s why it’s hard to diagnose and treat.

    I don’t follow your argument tho, if Panzerschokolade helps you overcome tiredness and invade the USSR it doesn’t follow that you weren’t really tired to begin with. If aspirin helps your headache, were you imagining the pain?

    So what Andrew Again said above. Most people get over it in a few weeks but some people suffer for months or years, which is awful. The medical profession has been aware of chronic fatigue syndrome since the 80’s, so it’s not people being lazy ponces but it is maddeningly difficult to diagnose because of the inherently subjective symptoms. Unfortunately the sawbones industry isn’t set up to treat this kind of thing, if they can’t diagnose you within a 10 minute appointment or a blood test you’re going to have a bad time.

  19. @Steve
    All of these things, tiredness, hunger, thirst, heat, cold, pain are subjective not objective. So whether one feels them or not or the degree is a matter of choice. Most people experience very little of them, so their tolerance is very low. It’s why people get fat. It takes something like 3 or 4 days without food before there’s any noticeable body reaction. But people think they’re hungry after 3 or 4 hours. So they keep stuffing food in their mouths.
    There’s something I’d regularly do when I had homes here & up on the French/Belgian border. One end to ‘tother’s a bit over 2000km. Leave from one end about midnight. Arrive at the other about 10pm. No stops apart from 5 minutes for fuel & a pee. Then go out for the evening. Drinks & meal if Belgium, bar & a nightclub here. Why not? Comfortable car. Most of it’s autoroute. It’s no different from sitting on the sofa watching TV all day. I’ve done it with a passenger & they’ve slept half the trip & arrived exhausted. Because they choose to feel tired.

  20. Tomo

    There was a Russian tv programme a couple of weeks ago, where the invited guests- ex-spook and geostrategist – put it as “known” that omicron was deliberately developed by MI6 to bring the pandemic to a halt.

    The host said that surely it would be the CIA that would do that if it was true. Their answer:
    “No. Americans are stupid, but British are strategic”.

    I’d love to believe we secretly ran the world, but I have my doubts.

  21. @Recusant…

    Peter Tinniswood got there first with “Uncle Mort”…

    “You know, Carter, I’ve come to the conclusion that the world is secretly run by a cabal of lady golfers”.

    🙂

  22. Because they choose to feel tired.

    The only reason you can’t do the 100m as fast as Usain Bolt is that you choose to feel slow.

  23. omicron was deliberately developed by MI6 to bring the pandemic to a halt

    They can’t even keep track of a hundred Muslims, do they think the British secret services can engineer a more benign virus? Fucking hell.

    Anyway, regarding Long Covid – I would be interested to see the sex breakdown. At a wild guess I would estimate 65%/35% female/male, with a strong grouping in the 40-55 age group for females.

  24. @PJF
    I’m not a competitive sprinter because I’ve chosen not to put the years of training in would be required. I don’t do marathons either. No particular reason. (I’ve certainly walked 26 miles when I had to.) Apart from not being that bloody stupid & owning a car.

  25. I’m not a competitive sprinter because I’ve chosen not to put the years of training in would be required.

    Plenty of others choose to but they’re still not as fast as the fastest person. Is that because different people have different capabilities or because people choose to feel different?

    You can drive for twenty two hours without a rest break, others can’t. You say it’s because they choose to feel tired. Can you go for three days without a rest break; five days? If not, is it because you’ve met a physical limit or because you’ve chosen to feel tired?

  26. @PJF
    Do you have any idea what lives for my grandparent’s generation were like? Or the generation before them? Men doing 12 hours heavy manual work in a day was normal. My grandfather worked on the docks like that. When he could get work. Slinging 2 cwt sacks about. Then cycled 7 miles home & got up at 5 AM to queue for another opportunity. Jim could probably tell you what work was like on a farm at harvest time before mechanisation.
    “Can you go for three days without a rest break?”
    Regularly at one time. 6PM friday evening to 8AM monday morning. Straight through. Office fitting. Lovely money! Why sleep when it’s raining 50 pound notes?

  27. Do you have any idea what lives for my grandparent’s generation were like?

    WTF?

    Men doing 12 hours heavy manual work in a day was normal.

    12 hours? They were lucky!

    Oh well, absurdity has been reached. I suppose it’s normal for some people to see the world through the filter of themselves and conclude others who don’t perform as well as they do are just morally deficient. Ironically, in your case the limitation really is down to a lack of feeling.

  28. ” Jim could probably tell you what work was like on a farm at harvest time before mechanisation.”

    I’m not old enough, but I heard enough tales from my late father. What those guys used to do physically is inconceivable to our modern sensibilities. One chap who worked for my grandfather could dead lift a full churn of milk off the ground and onto a waggon (ie 3-4 feet off the ground) in one easy motion. Thats the old style churns, the ones that were conical in shape, they contained 17 gallons (ie 77 litres -77kg of milk, plus the weight of the churn, which was steel, so probably 15-20kg on its own, so 90-100kg in total). It would take 3 men to do that today, if they could. The old guys would work 12 hours doing back breaking work day in day out. A different breed!

  29. Just had a quick look at the 1842 Children’s Employment Commision.

    Kids as young as 4/5 working down mines, often 12 hours at a stretch 6 days a week.
    Working on a farm wasn’t much better, though at least you were in daylight.

    How quickly we forget how hard life once was in the past.

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