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Well, yes and no, yes and no

A Catholic priest in Arizona has resigned after he was found to have performed baptisms incorrectly throughout his career, rendering the rite invalid for thousands of people.

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix announced on its website that it determined after careful study that the Rev. Andres Arango had used the wrong wording in baptisms performed up until June 17, 2021. He had been off by a single word.

During baptisms in both English and Spanish, Arango used the phrase “we baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” He should have said “I baptize,” the diocese explained.

In the strictest sense anyone can baptise using pretty much any damn formulation they like. For God, being omniscient, knows the intent etc. Does actually happen too. Newborn, baptised with mother’s finger dipped in any convenient drop of water. You know, if there’s a fear they won’t survive.

Happened to me after all.

32 thoughts on “Well, yes and no, yes and no”

  1. If I was the Pope, I’d give everyone involved a blanket indulgence, and decree them all to be properly baptised.

    But perhaps a real Christian’d argue that this is immoral.

  2. Presumably that won’t work because not baptised = aeons in Purgatory. It’s an absolute thing, not amenable to the whims of Popes, or is my theology a bit rusty?

  3. Tractor Gent, your theology is not so much rusty as wrong. Unbaptized infants and virtuous pagans spend eternity in Limbo, where their only pain is not being in the presence of God. Purgatory is the place where those who have died repentant purge the remaining stains of their sins before joining the ranks of the blessed. It is a temporary stopping place – although perhaps for a very long time – but anyone who is in Purgatory is within the Kingdom of Heaven.

  4. Like the difference between “I believe….” and “We believe….”.
    It has implications which people might wonder about.

  5. Is Limbo the place with the dusky maidens with the bouncy tits? How virtuous does a pagan have to be to get in? Asking for a friend.

  6. Ken, if belief in the Trinity counts you out then that’s all Christians apart from Unitarians, Christadelphians and a couple of other sects

  7. I can’t help but think that a god would create the christian Hell would really have to be a sick fucker. Make exploding ragheads look like paragons of virtue.

  8. @ Ken
    I presume “beautiful houris of wide and beautiful eyes” has to be some sort of poetic allusion. Who would give a fuck how wide they’re eyes were unless they were an optician? The other thing, one prefers tight.

  9. The Other Bloke in Italy

    What do I have to do to avoid sharing an eschatological space with the likes of the creature Blair, the woman Clinton, and the extrusion Schwab?

  10. @Chris
    It’s the point that, in the Christian illusion, it’s believed to exist in the first place. The path to getting there is irrelevant. But it’s another goat-fucker religion. Revenge against those who don’t stick to tribal custom is integral with the parcel.

  11. The doctrine of ‘Baptism by Desire’ is used to stop Limbo being clogged up by good pagans who have never received The Word of God.

  12. “They choose the paths that lead there”

    That simple statement would have led to war in 17thc Europe. Some of those nice Swiss people (among others) believed that you had no choice in the matter – it was a case of predestination

  13. @ bis
    You clearly have a problem with your memory – I have previously explained why you’re talking nonsense.
    Hel is a piece of pagan Norse imagination.
    Christianity does not condemn souls to endless torment any more than a dried leaf burns forever.

  14. “Hel is a piece of pagan Norse imagination.
    Christianity does not condemn souls to endless torment any more than a dried leaf burns forever.”

    Perhaps that explains why a 4th century gospel written in Egypt describes a vision of Hell as composed of rivers of fire and ice where suffering does not have a time limit.

    I imagine you are quibbling that the English word Hell derives from an old English word Hel that is cognate with the Norse word Hel. However, Hell as a biblical concept only appears in the King James translation of Bible. In the earlier versions, especially the Septuaginta, the concept was covered by 3 words: Tartarus, Hades and Gehenna. Gehenna, or the Valley of Hinnom, was a garbage dump where rubbish was burned. Mark 9:43 says “It is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into Gehenna into the unquenchable fire.”

    It is definitely not a time-limited punishment.

    Paul refers to “everlasting destruction” in Romans and Thessalonians.

    Revelation talks about “burning sulphur” where “the devil, the beast, and false prophet” will be “tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

  15. Chris, why doesn’t God just get rid of Hell? Why does He allow it? Or even, why did He create it? And this is the action of a good God? Seriously? He’s utterly, utterly despicable.

    Assuming He exists. Which, of course, thank Dog, He doesn’t.

  16. Anybody who finds the notion of child pornographers, child rapists and other sinners suffering for eternity ‘despicable’ is somebody whose conscience is lacking.

    Justice ought to be done. For decent people the only question is whether it is too good to be true.

  17. @ Diogenes
    IF – and that is clearly a big “if” you are willing to think about those concepts that contradict your bigotry, you may observe that *none* of your “clever”claims refute my previous comment.

  18. @John77
    “You clearly have a problem with your memory – I have previously explained why you’re talking nonsense.
    Hel is a piece of pagan Norse imagination.
    Christianity does not condemn souls to endless torment any more than a dried leaf burns forever.”
    I haven’t”

    I haven’t said anything about the nature of Hell whatsoever. I’m hardly likely to, since I don’t beilieve any religious concept exists outside of people’s minds. And as no-one can know what’s what’s going on in anybody else’s head, there are as many versions of Christianity as there are Christians. So it has nothing to do with what any book or Book says but what they believe it says. Even if they haven’t read it. If people choose to believe in an everlasting damnation, that’s their choice.
    I have nothing against religions per se. They’re early attempts to explain the world. A first crack at science. But clinging to something that doesn’t explain the world is evidence of a sick mind. And sorry, a book derived from the beliefs of a bunch of goat herders a couple of millennia ago doesn’t cut it on the explanation front.

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