Err, no

The present study examined the rate of retransition and current gender identities of 317 initially-transgender youth (208 transgender girls, 109 transgender boys; M=8.1 years at start of study) participating in a longitudinal study, the Trans Youth Project. Data were reported by youth and their parents through in-person or online visits or via email or phone correspondence.

RESULTS
We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. Later cisgender identities were more common amongst youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years; the retransition often occurred before age 10.

CONCLUSIONS
These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way. Nonetheless, understanding retransitions is crucial for clinicians and families to help make them as smooth as possible for youth.

Mean age at start of transition, 8.1 years. 5 years study – 13.1 years.

That’s not the end of puberty now, is it?

16 thoughts on “Err, no”

  1. “Later cisgender identities were more common amongst youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years”.

    How many of those were pushed into it by woke parents?

  2. It’s as scientific as it comes.

    Note that this research does not do actual diagnostics on kids regarding their “gender identity” ( that’s done by other quacks..). And they’re pretty emphatic about that.
    They simply follow cases, collate data, and publish findings. ( as per their site.)

    And skimming through the actual article, it’s as a scientific article ought to be: dry as rusk, and pretty much devoid of speculation.

    And as distasteful as it may seem… True gender dysphoria ( no.. not the twatter screamers..) is quite real, and if it’s got the physical root cause that is the current main suspect, the very few kids afflicted with it can at least be separated from the …unfortunate results.. of “fashionable” parents and/or other delusional influences through this kind of research.

    As far as I can tell, they’re studying a physical/medical phenomenon, not the current fashion trend of histrionic fat-blokes-in-a-dress.

  3. Translation:-

    94% of 8 year year old tomboys, or more accurately normal girls who inadvertently picked up an Action Man toy instead of Barbie, were smart enough at age 13 to realise that although they may still be confused (Children about to enter puberty can be confused. Hold the Lancet front page) they’re certainly not male.

    The 1.3% who presumably believed themselves to be characters from My Little Pony also came to their senses.

  4. Having spoken with a wavering trans teenager while coming out is applauded and brave you face a barrage of abuse over de transitioning, usually your identity and peer group at that point are tied up with being seen as trans which makes changing difficult.
    Public statements aren’t to be taken seriously as no one with doubts will be expressing them openly and may feel they can’t bring them up with anyone

  5. aopdfjadjfoadif

    Either way, these kids are going to need some therapy, even if they feel they made the correct decision.

    So, given that one will inevitably endure mental health issues (e.g., identity issues, depression, bullying, child abuse or childhood trauma, sexual disorders, etc.), wouldn’t you rather wait until age 18 (preferably later than that, when you know what you want out of life)?

    Isn’t it safer to finally transition when you’re a legal adult, and deal with the more benign issues of acceptance and loneliness from childhood, than it is to realize that your parents made the wrong decision when you were 8, and accept that you’re never getting your penis back? Has the average 8-year-old even fully decided whether or not they want to have kids someday? I know a number of women who didn’t want kids at age 25, and are now scrambling to find a husband at age 32 before all of their eggs die.

  6. @aopdfjadjfoadif

    “Isn’t it safer to finally transition when you’re a legal adult, and deal with the more benign issues of acceptance and loneliness from childhood, than it is to realize that your parents made the wrong decision when you were 8, and accept that you’re never getting your penis back?”

    I’m not saying what follows is correct, but it is the standard counter-argument: teenagers who want to transition but can’t pose a suicide risk, so in that sense it’s unsafe, and young trans people also have a big fear of puberty, so it can be “safer”, in the sense of preserving more of what you actually desire, to transition (e.g. hormone blockers, not necessarily surgery) before those changes set in.

    Like wot Grikath said, there is a medical issue here and there is certainly a balance of risks – the suicide rate alone is a genuine problem and figuring out the best path to minimize it is therefore an issue that deserves proper dry-as-dust academic medical research.

    Have to admit I’m disappointed that greater social acceptance of kids crossing gender barriers hasn’t resulted in a situation where a larger proportion of affected people feel quite comfortable with a degree of gender-fluidity, that they can be a boy and wear a dress or whatever, and don’t feel they need surgery/hormones to “align” their body with it. But dysphoria is obviously more complicated than that.

  7. It seems unfair, somehow, the the Right to Die legislation is going to be limited to old codgers with incurable conditions and not extended to young children with other incurable conditions.
    Just like we locked up kids last year to protect people who were shortly going to die anyway.

    More seriously, I wonder if anyone has done a social survey of the parents. My bet is that they skew to: Urban. Single parent. Government / third sector employee. Atheist. Borderline or full narcissist(s).
    I suspect that there would be a lot less of this attention seeking behaviour if parents actually paid some attention to their kids.

  8. Anon,

    greater social acceptance of kids crossing gender barriers

    That’s the whole problem though. Greater tolerance of everything from goths to drugs means that today’s kids have little left in the way of alternative identities. Trans is the one of the few remaining options.

  9. Bloke in the Fourth Reich

    Grikath is right. The unscientific part is in what the kids expect themselves to say.

    But then we are getting deep into psychology*, with all the arguments about how scientific that is (or has been).

    And economics of course. Sunk costs and all that.

    *: or at least the widely observed phenomenon of post-hoc justification of poor choices.

  10. @AndrewZ The brain, and specifically some interesting bits in the more basal areas that seem to control gender behaviour/sexual attraction and gender perception. Most interestingly, those two seem to be mostly separate, although there’s some overlap.

    It’s finicky research, because sample sizes are small (obviously) and live imaging techniques are nowadays good, but still lack the resolution necessary to get a clear picture, so any results are presented very carefully, and with a lot of hedges.

    If the teams are correct, it would provide a medical/physical explanation for homosexuality, body dysphoria, and the whole cis/trans-het/gay mess. Two switches, each with their own chance at being “thrown the other way”.
    It wouldn’t be “The Thing and the Whole of the Thing”, as with all things biological you’re dealing with gradients of expression, and there’s also Nurture past the Hardware/Firmware basics since we are not purely “instinctive” creatures. It’s never, ever, simple.
    But, if correct, it would at least allow to differentiate “true” cases from the …unduly influenced… cases, or the plain nutcases with different disorders.

    Of course, the Letter-Soup Activists positively hate this kind of research.
    “Simple” answers that are actually useful, based on observable facts, are the arch-enemy of Narrative, after all..
    Imagine actually finding an explanation that helps the poor, confused teens that happen to have drawn a short stick with an accurate explanation of what is going on in their body and mind, and helps them deal with it in a way that’s less destructive than the screaming of a bunch of nutters and quacks.

  11. Must admit I like aopdfjadjfoadif’s approach; do nothing irreversible until you’re an adult.

    Still if there’s actually some real data Grikath, maybe in certain very rare instances action should be taken.

    Um, er, ah, oh. Buggered if I know.

  12. if children are judged capable of making decisions about sex, then the age of consent needs adjusting to suit. If parents can make that decision on the children’s behalf then they should be able to make that decision on whether children can have sex or not.

  13. Extreme Trans Rights Are Bullying

    Here is my view on the trans issue.
    I have said most of this before today. But I am saying it again. Because it is my view.
    My views on the trans issues.
    I think that the trans issue is deeply disgusting and narcissistic.
    I am against homophobia. Homophobic bullying is evil. I have hated bullies all my life.
    But the trans issue is different.
    It is about an utterly tiny minority deciding to have the right to override the rights of the vast majority of society.
    One of the central foundations of society is that there is a difference between men and women.
    Men and women use different toilets, different sports teams due to the physical differences.
    Men and women use different changing rooms, because women do not want men seeing them getting changed. It is about respecting women’s privacy.
    The idea that a man can then decide he has a right to claim to be a woman is nonsense and disgusting. Especially when they decide to be a man one day and a woman the next. It is a joke. It is not brave it is cowardly and perverted to think you as a man can decide to go to the women’s toilet the next day and a man’s the next.
    I read a trans soundbite that says ‘trans people have right to piss. Get over it.’
    Well my reply to that would be no one is stopping you have a piss. But if you are a man then do the toilet in the men’s changing room do not decide to change in the women’s toilet because you have decided to be a woman one day.
    If you are so brave then go to a man’s toilet wearing a dress. Do not upset women because you do not have the guts to face up to men in a dress while being a man. You are the coward, and the bully.
    Many women find drag acts to be sexist because it is mocking women, like white people blacking up is racist.
    One of the central premises of society cannot be overturned, just because less than a per cent of society have issues with it.
    I am not talking about some trivial difference like hair colour or whether you chew your finger nails. We are talking about one of the central defining, identifying and structural frameworks of society. Gender.
    How is it brave to be a man and enter a woman’s race? It is a cowardly and disgusting,
    Imagine if someone decided to paint themselves green and then said all of society should change it’s structure to represent their green skin. It is nonsense. Grow up.
    You cannot enter a woman’s race or sport when you are a man.
    You cannot enter the woman’s toilet when you are a man.
    You are not brave you are cowardly to do so.

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