I’ve been waiting on this

Islamist gunman kills two at Oslo gay bar

Looking at the reporting on it. Waiting to see which way it went.

For it could have gone one way – right wing fascist gunman attacks Pride, Trump, end of civilisation etc.

Or Allahu Akhbar and that’s the reason.

The thing being, reading the varied pieces about it I could almost feel the breath being held. No one quite willing to commit either way. But definitely ready to start shouting if it did fall the one way.

For of course if it had been some Trumpian etc then the condemnation would have been immense and eternal. Now that it’s Islamist (a Norwegian of Iranian descent apparently) it’s rather more likely to get pigeonholed as one of those unfortunate things that happens.

Now all of that is simply me. That’s what I felt reading the coverage and what I was waiting for. But future coverage is going to be interesting, isn’t it? If it were some Brevik figure again then it would be a grand lesson about our civilisation. Running the way it is it isn’t going to be, is it?

37 thoughts on “I’ve been waiting on this”

  1. Also, when did Trump ever give the impression he wasn’t a fan of gay lifestyles, to the point of wanting them all shot dead?

  2. Steve across the Pond

    One of the stories I read said:

    The gunman was known to security services since 2015 as a “suspected radicalised Islamist”, and had a history of mental illness, Norway’s PST intelligence service said.

    Over here, when one of these events happens, it’s pretty much a guarantee that the perpetrator will be known to the government at some level. And government will always be completely blameless when a person they know about goes on a rampage.

    And then the idiots will demand the government that failed do more to protect them.

  3. You can find whatever response/non-response you want to these things. It’s about where you look and what you are looking for. Murder by islamists gets plenty of coverage, probably more than murder by far-right extremists, but the people shouting about the latter and not-so-much the former are closing the gap.

    So, for sure, some people hear about a hate crime and quietly pray that it was one or t’other wot done it. Fuck those people. And fuck the media who decide to tilt their coverage accordingly. But that really is approximately all of them. If if you want to find woke-ite’s condemning Islamist murderers with the same gusto they condemn white-nationalist* murderers then you can. If you don’t spend your time looking for people with bad opinions so you can point at them, it’s pretty easy because it is most people.

    And, of course, it’s kinda bullshit to expect people to pipe up with the same volume for every relevant event as they do for the ones close to their own ‘interest’. We pick a choose. Like you chose to blog about a case where the baddie was an Islamist in order to make this point… you can’t be expected to blog about every shooting, after all… even though every shooting will doubtless give rise to some interested thought experiment around bias in response.

    Meanwhile, as you, a non-murderous man of the right, sit hoping to find some good old double standards to jibe the left with, white supremacists have killed WAY more people than islamists (at least, in the places they exist.. I don’t think the Oath Keepers have any chapters in Isis territory).. and that is after allowing for the fact that it can often even be a battle to have a murderer recognised as a white supremacist and not just ‘lone wolf mentally ill person with no identifiable ideology who just happens to have shot a bunch of people three weeks after discovering 8chan’… and most coverage and reaction remains apparently oblivious to this.

    * We can call them white-somethingists as shorthand.. but they usually hate the gays, regardless of colour as well.

  4. There’s a massively different response from the Establishment depending on the attackers motivation.
    Right-Wing extremist = White Supremacy is biggest threat to civilisation, no stone unturned, crackdowns, etc, etc all to cheering of the gallery.
    Muslim = not all Muslims, we must be more tolerant, ‘Islam’ actually means peace, a man plays ‘Imagine’ on piano, must move on, etc, etc.

  5. Monty, I guess the 80 million Hindus murdered by moslems would likely dispute your “white supremacists have killed WAY more people than islamists”.

    moslem kills non moslems (or anyone deemed ‘non moslem’ you know, moslem, but of the wrong sect) = mental disorder, nothing to do with islam.
    White person kills anyone = white supremacist / fascist / far right neo nazi, ‘BAN GUNS’ shouted from the rooftops.
    Black person kills black person = gang related, nothing to see here, move along.

    Good job they have regulations on gun ownership in Norway. Wiki: “Gun ownership is restricted in Norway, unless one has officially documented a use for the gun. By far the most common grounds for civilian ownership are hunting and sports shooting, in that order. Other needs can include special guard duties or self-defense, but the first is rare unless the person shows identification confirming that they are a trained guard or member of a law-enforcement agency.

  6. Pendant alert: islam means ‘Submission’. A moslem is ‘someone who submits (to the will of allah).

  7. @Monty – June 26, 2022 at 8:26 am

    white supremacists have killed WAY more people than islamists

    …only if you set the definition of “white supremacist” even wider that that for “peace” when referring to the RoP… and even then, frankly I doubt it.

  8. Well Julia, I always got the idea that Trump was quite happy with gays. It meant there were more birds available for him.

    As for the white supremacists?? with my colour skin I’ve always imagined they’d rather shoot someone else. But as for the Mahometans, I know they want to kill me.

  9. Adolff, yes, they have pretty strict gun regs in Norway. Which makes it doubly surprising the bloke could get his hands on an automatic weapon to begin with while being “in the radar” of Teh Ahwtoritays while suffering from “multiple mental issues”.

    Cynical me feels he may well have been the “Lone Wolf” fall guy that got handed the “opportunity to punish the Infidels” by others.

  10. Monty

    ‘ white supremacists have killed WAY more people than islamists ’ – good to put in that caveat ‘where they exist’- unfortunately it’s still bollocks on stilts. How many ‘White supremacists’ are looking to hotfoot their way to Pakistan? (for example) whereas over a billion Muslims are looking to be funded by Western taxpayers in perpetuity, and are willing to pay sizeable sums to make a very dangerous crossing and then get through about 7 ‘safe’ countries before jumping on a dinghy here. Western taxpayers that probably at least 10 to 20 percent of that population of Muslims think should be put to death immediately, simply for not being a Muslim.

  11. But future coverage is going to be interesting, isn’t it?

    Future coverage? It’ll drop off the news cycle as quickly as the Muslim who brutally murdered three gays in Reading, or the Muslim who drove up to Glasgow to murder another Muslim for saying ‘Happy Easter’.

    This stuff just isn’t as important as real issues such as Partygate or ‘conversion therapy’ or Johnny Depp’s mad wife. Sorry gays, you lose in the Oppression Stack.

  12. @Grikath
    Like most countries, in Norway you can get your hand on pretty well anything you like if you’ve the right contacts. Islamic extremists have good contacts. Norway may require reasons & permits for guns. No doubt cocain’s illegal as well. So what?
    I’d say we’re getting to the point where getting tooled up might be a wise move. And like goldrushes, you make your money selling shovels.

  13. Bombings in Sweden: “In 2018 there were 162 explosions, and in the first nine months of 2019 97 explosions were registered, usually carried out by criminal gangs. According to police the attackers are part of the same gangs which also increasingly engaged in gun crime leading to a wave in shootings. While there were 17 deadly shootings in 2011, there were 45 in 2018.
    Ethnicity is not recorded and published for either suspect or convicted criminals, but according to police intelligence chief Linda H Staaf many are second or third generation immigrants, are members of disadvantaged groups and have grown up in disadvantaged areas.

    France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France.

    Lots and lots of Ropers and a few far left, but no white supremacists……..

  14. There’s a bloke I used to know down here, now regrettable deceased, made his living in the UK as an armourer. Firearms rental. For a certain section of the economy one doesn’t own guns for work, one rents them according to need. He had a little workshop at his villa because he used to like to keep his hand in after he retired. Nice light engineering shop, lathe, mill etc. All duel purpose. Knock you up anything in a long weekend. Used to have a drink with him occasionally in a bar down by the beach. There’d usually be some other grey haired old geezer drop in chew the fat, talk about the old days. Sometimes there’d be half a dozen sitting round the table. He knew a lot of people. Popular guy.
    So you want a shooter? This afternoon early enough for you? Any particular model?

  15. I wonder how the offender would be described by the ‘impartial’ media if a gay went into a mosque and shot two people? Not suggesting it should happen, but every other combination seems to have been covered.

  16. white supremacists have killed WAY more people than islamists (at least, in the places they exist.. I don’t think the Oath Keepers have any chapters in Isis territory) and that is after allowing for the fact that it can often even be a battle to have a murderer recognised as a white supremacist

    So, people (Muslims and non-) killed by Muslims in places where there are no white supremacists don’t count. And the incidence of white supremacist murder is downplayed. What a crock. Monty is so full of shit he could solve Britain’s fertiliser crisis.

    Even with his dodgy definitions, even in the US, Islamists are well ahead of white supremacists.

  17. @BiS Oh, I’m well aware of the fact that you can get your hands on pretty much everything, provided..

    Of course, the trick is in the provided, given that you need to get acquainted with increasingly unpleasant/dangerous, and most of all cautious, people when you want to get your hands on the Serious Stuff..
    Handguns are peanuts, but automatic weapons? There be Dragons..

    And yes.. Many an extremist ( any flavour) movement has ties to deal with those dragons, but those dragons won’t deal with religion-besotted Spesjulties directly. Way too much risk of exposure.
    Which is why I feel the Bright Light that did the actual shooting is a fall guy, and that the real culprits are playing Innocent while lining up the next.

    As for “tooling up”… Already am, albeit several centuries “out of fashion”.

  18. @Grikath
    Islamic extremists are dangerous unpleasant people. You could leave out the extremist as far as I’m concerned.
    There were a load of Bulgarian model AK74’s going around a few yeas ago for peanuts. As much ammunition as you could carry. I would imagine, currently, similar are leaking out of the Ukraine theatre by the lorry load.
    If there’s a demand there’s a market will supply. I would imagine for the weapons business, your big problem’s lack of demand. Battle rifles are probably the easiest things to get your hands on cheap. But who actually wants one?

  19. A buddy of mine actually is an arms dealer. All legal ‘n’ everything. You’re right, rifles don’t really come into it. V high end sniper ones, yes, but average squaddies stuff? Nope.

  20. currently, similar are leaking out of the Ukraine theatre by the lorry load.

    Imagine how exciting it’s going to be when Abdul gets a crate of Stingers.

  21. “one doesn’t own guns for work, one rents them according to need.”

    I can remember my shock when my daughter explained this to me and told me which local pub was best for renting.

    What she couldn’t tell me was how the deal is done. Suppose the guy hands me a pistol and ammunition, and I hand him his money. (I assume it includes a deposit not just the hire charge?). I load, point, and ask for my money back.

    I can see that my future might then be brief but I still wonder how it all works. Similarly, when I return the gun and the ammo left over, how do I get my deposit back? He’s now the one with the gun.

  22. Battle rifles are probably the easiest things to get your hands on cheap. But who actually wants one?

    [puts hand up]

    They seem remarkably popular where they are legal (“AR-15” and friends*) but where illegal they’re going to be problematic in terms of bang-for-arse. Way too difficult to carry, conceal and store for regular folk (petty gangsters through to survivalists), with maximal judicial consequences.

    * For the purposes of this discussion I’m not distinguishing between assault and self-loader.

  23. . . . but I still wonder how it all works. Similarly, when I return the gun and the ammo left over, how do I get my deposit back? He’s now the one with the gun.

    If his business model is rental then he needs a reliable reputation.

    I would have thought that rental guns would be for threats rather than shootings. Who the hell would want to keep or acquire a gun that had been used in a murder?

  24. Imagine how exciting it’s going to be when Abdul gets a crate of Stingers.

    Abdul has been given crates of “stingers” on multiple occasions by multiple actors.

  25. Have the Oath Keepers actually killed anyone as opposed to dressing up and behaving nearly as stupidly as Antifa?

    In the absence of numerous fatalities, which the internet must have decided to ignore, i wonder why Monty mentioned them. Chances are he’s a “one and done” visitor here though so I doubt he’ll be back to enlighten us.

  26. Just over a year ago someone attacked people at the library 500m from my house with a knife, a young mother who had a child in a pushchair was killed and six people hospitalised . Man was from the other side of the country with no links to the area, not only did my family in the UK not know it had happened as there was no widespread media coverage some of my work colleagues didn’t even know about it the following Monday. It’s been effectively disappeared since with no coverage outside local news and police still claim they have no idea about the persons motive even now. A Google search shows his surname is most common in Burkina Faso which is predominantly Muslim according to Wikipedia.

  27. Ideal name for a firearms dealer: Sean Offshott-Gunn. Even the surname is double barrelled.

  28. @dearieme
    “I still wonder how it all works. Similarly, when I return the gun and the ammo left over, how do I get my deposit back? He’s now the one with the gun.”‘
    You are, of course, not a criminal. So you won’t get the benefit of this. Amongst themselves, criminals can be the most honest people you’ll come across. The professionals. They have to be. In their dealings with each other they have no resort to courts. And other methods are mostly counter-productive. So everyone depends on word of honour & reputation. Reputation has a great deal of value not squandered lightly.
    The armourer withholds a deposit without reason? If a deposit was even required. He’s no longer an armourer. Nobody would use him.

  29. @PJF
    An AR15 isn’t a battle rifle (or assault rifle© cunts who know nothing about guns). It’s just a rifle.
    A battle rifle’s fully automatic. The AR15s sold in gunshops are semi-automatic.

  30. Apparently according to some prog I saw on telly, “weapon of choice” for German gangsters is/was Serbian made M10 which is an AK knock off. The most expensive part of its purchase are the bribes for the Hungarian border guards.

    I am reminded of Lock, Stock… where the chef bloke ( Dexter Fletcher) intones, while fingering a machete “Guns for show, knives for a pro…”

  31. One of the things that stuck out when reading about the Troubles in Norn Iron, was that MI6 had done a pretty bang up job in restricting the IRA from laying their hands on pistols and ammo.

    Long guns (and shotguns ofc.) were pretty easy to source, but couldn’t be concealed or disposed of as easy as pistols were, and were therefore regarded as much more of a threat.

    In the UK, even nowadays, low level crims have difficulty getting hold of pistols.
    When caught, many of them are in possession of essentially museum pieces, or deactivated guns which have been reactivated by an armourer.(which requires connections & a reputation)

    I suppose though that sufficiently serious organised gangs, with deep pockets, wouldn’t find it too onerous getting hold of whatever they wanted. I do however find it surprising that Norways hand grenade problem hasn’t spread wider than it has. I suppose we should count ourselves lucky.

  32. I’d love to be an editor at one of these outlets, just during one of these stories, and hear the staff say “Now, obviously we can’t mention the gunman’s origin or religious beliefs for [some bullshit reason.]”

    And then just publish it anyway.

  33. I suppose though that sufficiently serious organised gangs, with deep pockets, wouldn’t find it too onerous getting hold of whatever they wanted.

    They have totally convincing specialist armouries in luxury hotels run by retired English antiques dealers.

  34. A battle rifle’s fully automatic.

    No.
    Tsk. I did try and head this off at the pass:
    – * For the purposes of this discussion I’m not distinguishing between assault and self-loader.
    but since you went there . . .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle

    You are correct (for the wrong reason) that an AR-15 is not a battle rifle, but then neither is an AK47 or M16.
    The Falklands War was fought with battle rifles (UK self-loading and Argie selective-fire), the Vietnam war wasn’t.

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