A global transgender health organisation has recommended that children as young as 14 should be allowed irreversible gender transition treatment, despite growing concern that medical interventions at such an early age may cause more harm than good.
The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (Wpath), based in Illinois in the United States, is advocating for health professionals to allow children to begin life-changing treatment with cross-sex hormones at 14, two years earlier than it recommended previously. It also believes that girls should be allowed to have breast removal surgery as young as 15.
There’s a fundie American church that tries to explain the story about millstones by saying they were used as a method of execution. Thus JC is saying that folk that mess with the kiddies should be executed.
That doesn’t make sense, millstones are highly expensive pieces of capital equipment. You’d not throw one of those away to execute someone when a rope and a tree is virtually free.
The sentiment does have its value here though.
“Thus JC is saying that folk that mess with the kiddies should be executed.
That doesn’t make sense, millstones are highly expensive pieces of capital equipment. You’d not throw one of those away to execute someone when a rope and a tree is virtually free.”
Thats exactly what the verse is saying, have you not read it?
But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. KJV Matthew 18:6
I’d say thats pretty clear about what should happen to kiddie fiddlers. I’m sure God won’t mind about the exact method of execution though.
No, I’m not talking about the verse. Rather, about that fundie US current day interpretation of it. They go on to say “Well, you see, using a millstone was a common method of execution and so …..” and I’m pointing out that no, it wasn’t. One of the things which gives what JC says its power is that it’s an extreme and unusual thing to do, even to think of. Mere basic capital punishment was hardly unusual in the Roman world now, was it?
They might have been using specially built “execution millstones”, or second hand ones bought off of Ebaie.comme.
I’ve forgotten its name now. But there was a silly book and TV series about a woman in 17thC Amsterdam whose life was mirrored in a doll’s house. Her husband, he was chucked in the drink with a millstone round his neck for being a sodomite.
Are you assuming that a ‘millstone’ is the sort we know? A large round piece of dressed stone for use in water or wind mills, which is indeed an expensive piece of capital that you wouldn’t waste by throwing in the ocean. It could just mean any flat rock that can be used in conjunction with a smaller rock to crush grain by hand. In which case its not really that expensive, and perfectly at hand to grab when needing to deal with kiddie fiddlers.
Graham Linehan’s substack had several posts earlier this week about WPATH and the creatures thereof. Not pleasant reading.
Part 1
Part 2
Jim:
A quern, you mean? That would do nicely, being light enough to allow the malefactor to be thrown in bodily by a mob, yet heavy enough to prevent swimming. Sodomites get a special queen-quern.
The book and film was called The Miniturist from 2017. I’ve just found an email conversation that I had with a mate about it.
Anyway that besides I heard the woman who wrote the book on the wireless last week and so was intrigued by it . Rubbish to be honest: flimsy plot and wooden characters although the costumes and sets tried hard to make it look like 17thC Amsterdam.
One aspect that I did enjoy though, was the anti-hero who was accused of bum-banditry. It gave me the chance to shout “Sodomite!” loudly along with the judge during his trial. He was found guilty, a millstone tied around his neck and he was chucked off a pier. Excellent. They didn’t explain whether it was a new or a used stone, though and whether the windmill would miss it.
Thus JC is saying that folk that mess with the kiddies should be executed.
He is saying they’ll wish they had merely been executed by drowning when God judges them.
But, we can’t let God do all the work.
Millstones are definitely too heavy and expensive to be used for ordinary executions, you’d only want to use elaborate and theatrical methods of sending people to eternity when their crimes require the punishment to awe the public. But we know ancient men did sometimes practice dramatic methods of carnifexing their problems away.
The Jews would have been horrified – not at the killing part, that was common enough – but at the idea of your body being lost to the sea. Judaism requires a proper Jewish burial on land, because if your fleshly vessel isn’t interred intact and in the earth, how can you be resurrected?
But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. KJV Matthew 18:6
But the offence as defined is ‘causing one of these little ones … to sin’. Mere fiddling is not the offence. Offence arises if the little one sins, for example by enjoying the fiddling. I take the verse more as a prohibition of soliciting or procuring transition into sin.
There’s an internet meme somewhere that goes something along the lines of:
“Put that cigarette down, you’re too young,
No you can’t drink that, you’re too young,
Stop that smooching, you’re too young,
You want to chop your dick off and grow a pair of breasts? Yes darling, of course you can, go right ahead.”
One could use an expensive millstone with a length of chain attached for ease of removal from the water after the job was done.
Jolly hard work dragging millstones from the sea, I hear you mutter but that task could be assigned to groups of lesser perverts. Everyone has their role in this vale of tears.
Apart from the expense it’s far too quick, final and merciful to drown someone in a single process for those guilty of such crimes.
The despatch needs to be long drawn out (several days), painful and cause mental torture throughout the period – by for example raising repeated false hopes of reprieve – “Repent and I’ll let you go. Nah, just joking.”
They didn’t have breeze blocks in the two thousand years ago. They should work as efficiently.
“when a rope and a tree is virtually free.” There probably weren’t a lot of trees in Palestine. You probably wouldn’t want to risk damaging a valuable olive tree just to hang some criminal.
I have no idea how the Jews of Jerusalem executed people. The High Priest and his court wanted to execute JC but the law didn’t allow that so the case had to be passed to a higher court, to wit PP’s. If the law had allowed it how would they have executed him?
But the offence as defined is ‘causing one of these little ones … to sin’.
The relevant part is in the bit you replaced with dots “who believe in Me “.
The context of the verse is about entering the kingdom of heaven; specifically you ain’t getting in unless you’ve been converted to JCness (typical cult leader stuff). JC is using “little one” as a metaphor for follower:
– 18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
– 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
– 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
– 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
– 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
– 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
– 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
.
M18:6 has nothing to do with harm to children, and nothing to do with children. It is about JC’s followers being led astray. Far from being a guide to earthly punishments, it is a warning about heavenly punishments.
I recall that Life of Brian had a skit about taking teachings too literally and out of context.
All hail to Monty Python.
I thought in those times, in that part of the world, stoning (lobbing rocks at someone til they died) was the preferred method.
Aside from nailing them to a cross, that is
@dearieme
Stoning is what the Jews would have done. Enoch Powell thought that was the true way that Jesus was executed.
I’ve just sent a copy to Tim
But here is a good example of what to watch out for in the Paul Whicker the Tall Vicar strip
https://archive.org/download/vizuk026octobernovember1987/Viz%20UK%20006%20-%20July%201981.pdf
Why not have the kids they messed with perform the same surgeries on these “medical professionals” without any idea of what they’re doing? What if they cause irreversible damage? Exactly.
Well, as my dear old Dad was a licentiate of the Gilde van Vrijwillige Molenaars, I may be competent to comment.
A medieval millstone would be 4 to 5 feet in diameter, 6 to 10 inches thick, depending on whether it’s the bedstone or the runner. Weight depends on the type of stone but can be up to 3000 pounds.
Moving one of these buggers, even inside a mill that is specially equipped to handle them, is a complete PITA. Getting one in or out of the building is an all-day affair even with modern equipment. Not what you’d want to use for the task at hand. Plus, as said, they were a valuable resource, and made to be re-dressed virtually-forever.
I suspect the Good Book originally referred to the type of portable milling equipment you would expect to be in use by nomadic tribesmen in the Middle East 3000 years ago, and medieval translators read it as “millstone” as they understood a millstone, and we’re off to the races of confusion and mis-direction.
llater,
llamas
The despatch needs to be long drawn out (several days), painful and cause mental torture throughout the period
Indeed the was a medieval torture that was exactly that – pressing to death. I recall a 1950s BBC radio play about the Cathars where one Cathar who refused to recant was punished this way by the Inquisition. Weights were added day-by-day just enough not to kill and leaving the possibility of relief by the simple act of recanting. The culmination of the play was that two friends ultimately put the guy out of his misery and this world by adding a few coins to the daily ration.
Fun times.
Correction: it was mostly used where someone refused to plead.
For such as stand Mute at their Trial, and refuse to answer Guilty, or Not Guilty, Pressing to Death is the proper Punishment. In such a Case the Prisoner is laid in a low dark Room in the Prison, all naked but his Privy Members, his Back upon the bare Ground his Arms and Legs stretched with Cords, and fasten’d to the several Quarters of the Room. This done, he has a great Weight of Iron and Stone laid upon him. His Diet, till he dies, is of three Morsels of Barley bread without Drink the next Day; and if he lives beyond it, he has nothing daily, but as much foul Water as he can drink three several Time , and that without any Bread: Which grievous Death some resolute Offenders have chosen, to save their Estates to their Children. But, in case of High Treason, the Criminal’s Estate is forfeited to the Sovereign, as in all capital Crimes, notwithstanding his being pressed to Death. This from the English common law prectice circa 1715
Not sure if resurrection is part of the Jewish religion, Steve. That’s a Christian thing. It’s Christians who make a big thing about continuance after death & believe in it. Most Jews would say they’re ignorant on the subject although it can be debated. To Jews, it’s life before death is important
@ bis
The best-known difference between Pharisees and Saducees was that the Pharisees believed in Resurrection and the Saducees did not.