Skip to content

Surprisingly reasonable

California’s report on slavery reparations. I’m sue there are horrors – not historical horrors, but of logic and or fact – but their outline of historical slavery (start at page 49) is obviously biased but it’s still reasonably fair. Vastly better than 1619 for example.

Surprised me.

26 thoughts on “Surprisingly reasonable”

  1. To those asking for apologies and reparations for the transatlantic slave trade:
    See that button there? That red one. Press that button and the transatlantic slave trade did not happen and no black people were sent across to the New World, with all the consequences that that entails.

    If though, on reflection, YOU PERSONALLY have reasons to be thankful the slave trade DID happen, don’t press it and SHUT THE FUCK UP.

  2. The reasonable option would’ve been to laugh the repamarations beggars out the door. But the US empire is dying in real time, and it’s pretty typical of societies in the terminal phase to do wacky things.

    Details of a reparations program – including how much payments could be, and who would be eligible – will be part of a second report due by July 2023.

    California is heavily Mexican, with a large influx of Pajeet in the urban bughives. It’s true that the local political machine is crookeder than Amber Heard’s conscience, so votes don’t exactly translate into electoral outcomes, but they can’t be completely ignored either.

    Pedro and the computer Dalits don’t like the blacks very much, and will be unhappy at being expected to pay yet mo’ money fo’ dem programs, on top of all the other taxes they have to pay for the pleasure of living with aspiring rappers who didn’t do nuffing and peacefully riot at the drop of a do-rag. The horribly old white Brahmin caste which currently controls California’s Democratic machine better watch out, they’re riding a tiger they imported.

  3. California entered the Union as a free state. So the thing is nonsense on stilts.

    If I were an American I might suggest that reparations consist of a ticket for a flight to Africa where they will find that they each own three acres and a cow, provided by Uncle Sam.

  4. There is another rational view. Since the Great Society reforms of LBJ the blacks have been nothing but a burden on the whites – effectively a heavy tax. So it’s whites (and yellows, and browns) who should be getting reparations from the blacks.

  5. If in the future personal credit rating/digital ID will enable personal tax rates too then the descendants of the guilty white slave-connected people can be targeted. White people will simply have a special tax bracket or in a shop a special levy can be applied to all purchases. Buy a train ticket, you just paid £2.99 extra.

  6. How can there be any logical basis for any of these reparation claims? If your ancestors were slaves then they suffered slavery, not you. As their descendants, you benefited from the slave trade by being born in a modern industrialised country rather than a backward craphole. As dearime says, all that should be offered is a one way ticket to the craphole in question.

  7. Dennis, Clear-Eyed As Always

    People who’ve never owned slaves owe money to people who’ve never been slaves because of slavery.

    The logic of social justice in a nutshell.

  8. 1. No one alive today has ever been a slave in the U.S. Those who are descendants of slaves have only benefitted from the injustices of their ancestors, in the same way liberals accuse descendants of slave owners of benefiting from those injustices. If one can only deserve reparations indirectly, then maybe they don’t deserve reparations at all.

    2. My ancestors came to the U.S. from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland around 1913, as a result of religious persecution. That is the entire reason I was even born in the U.S. This immigration happened long after slavery was abolished, and these ancestors never owned any slaves. They immigrated to the North, not the South, and lived in predominately Jewish communities at the time, meaning they had very little interaction with other groups of people–let alone black people–let alone negative interactions with them. Imagine all of the other ethnic groups currently in the U.S.–most mass immigration to the U.S. began in the 1880s, after the abolishment of slavery–who have absolutely no connection to slavery, but still are having their tax dollars stolen to pay people who were never slaves. In California particularly, I imagine a great number of these people aren’t even white, such as the Asian and Hispanic populations.

    3. Being Jewish, not only do I have the opportunity to play the victim card due to Tsar Nicolas and the Holocaust, but Jews have historically experienced slavery for far longer than the entire trans-atlantic slave trade lasted. To this day, my family has not received a penny of reparations from Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Germany, or Egypt. Nor do we seek any. Yes, I understand that Germany has had a reparations program. Very few American Jews even know anyone who has benefitted from that program. And we are the second-largest Jewish population outside of Israel. Even so, recipients of these reparations are almost always the victims/survivors themselves, not merely descendants. The Holocaust was 80 years ago, you see, and some of these people are still alive.

    4. It is a well-documented fact that there were African and African-American slave owners as well:

    https://nkaa.uky.edu/nkaa/items/show/2080

    Will these African-Americans be denied reparations? Will that sit well in cases where those descendants live in the same communities as those receiving reparations?

    5. What about descendants of white Americans who aided slaves to freedom, or fought for the North in the Civil War? Are they exempt from paying reparations?

    6. Especially since the passage of LBJ’s “Great Society” legislation in 1965, everything from welfare, food stamps, medicaid, social security, Pell grants, affirmative action, public housing, charitable contributions and corporate initiatives have been focused directly or indirectly (due to socioeconomic status) toward African-Americans. Even those who don’t live below the American poverty line can qualify for some of these benefits based solely on their skin color. Factor in the growth in population since the abolishment of slavery and the increase of these programs over time, and the concept of reparations has already been satisfied well beyond the price of 40 acres and a mule for the freed slave population in 1865.

    It is said by Thomas Craemer (researcher from University of Connecticut), after calculating the hours worked by slaves, that the overall cost of reparations could be up to $14.2 trillion. Between 1965 and 2012, welfare and anti-poverty programs had spent about $15 trillion in tax dollars, according to the Cato Institute. Astoundingly, that investment has only made things worse for the people it was intended to help. In 1965, 76% of black families had both parents in the household. By 1990, 64% of black households were led by single mothers. One poll in recent years showed that about 59% of black Americans still feel they should receive reparations.

    How much better do you think things will get if we keep trying the same failed experiment? Tim has mentioned a time or two that, before implementing a policy, you must first look at what has already been done.

    7. Thomas Craemer himself said that “Reparations will never bring one life back, and it’s totally inadequate to the terror of the [past].” Several politicians, media pundits, activists, liberal celebrities and others have said much the same thing. And it’s true, no amount of money or other form of reparations will pay for a time machine to prevent slavery from ever happening. As anti-poverty programs have showed us, or we could look at the majority of lottery winners, throwing money at a problem does not guarantee that it will be used wisely or that it won’t be lost over time. Apart from that, it’s fair to say that there will never be an end to calls for more and more and more and more taxpayer money to fund symbolic activism. This isn’t a dig specifically at African-Americans, as it’s true of any individual or group of people who are gifted money and resources based on something as trivial as one’s DNA. You can literally distribute an additional $14.2 trillion directly to black families, and there will still be no moving on. It’s a problem of attitude and maturity, not budgeting.

  9. It’s 2022 and people are still writing stuff like this:

    You can literally distribute an additional $14.2 trillion directly to black families, and there will still be no moving on. It’s a problem of attitude and maturity, not budgeting.

    Well, duh. The purpose of repamarations isn’t to uplift blacks, the Democratic Party and every pawn shop owner in LA knows that money will immediately be blown on cars they can’t afford the repayments on, trainers and hair weaves.

    The purpose of repamarations is the same as the purpose of mostly peaceful riots and state sanctification of drug-addled black criminals: it’s because they hate you, and people who look like you, and want to demoralise you, and cement your place at the bottom of the new racial hierarchy. The blacks are just being played here, like always.

    Current Year Western politics is a looting party shitting on your rug while they steal your valuables and sternly lecture you about democracy. Ayn Rand tried to warn ye.

  10. 8. It’s also worthwhile to read up on the history of Liberia. It’s a unique story of slaves being given the opportunity to form their own country, and even model it after the U.S. Constitution. Not saying it was a good or bad idea, but it seems that virtually everything was considered to deal with the logistical dilemma of freeing slaves in the 1800s, before their actual emancipation nationwide. Apparently, simply freeing them and allowing them to determine their own destiny was too complicated for the government to figure out.

  11. The Pedant-General

    “Apparently, simply freeing them and allowing them to determine their own destiny was too complicated for the government to figure out.”

    That’s possibly not fair. The upheaval and potential for everything to go pear shaped very very quickly and very very thoroughly if you did that was very very real.

    You are talking about simply turfing out 10s of thousands (? actually no idea of scale here…) from a situation where they were indentured (awful) but at least fed and housed into one where they were penniless, homeless, unwanted and jobless and with the mother and father of all grievances against the slavers from whose land they had just been ejected.

    You could hardly hope to conceive of a recipe more guaranteed to reignite a really genuinely race-based and unbelievably vicious and destructive civil war than that.

  12. I detect whitey’s black hand in this. Think of the mixed race people (you know, all those ones on the tellyads). Will they be obliged to pay themselves? Will quadroons be obliged to have four bank accounts? Octoroons eight? It’s the perfect opportunity for the creation of a vast bureaucracy. Run by white folks, obviously.

  13. “or Egypt”: good God, you don’t believe the Exodus fairy tale, do you?

    “It’s a unique story of slaves being given the opportunity to form their own country”: not entirely. Freetown in Sierra Leone was established for Loyalist ex-slaves from the former North American colonies; the Royal Navy later added to their number with slaves rescued from slaver ships.

    Anyway, there’s a test of the reparations argument. Offer free immigration into the US of the population descended from American slaves: if lots of people take the offer up then there’s no case for reparations.

  14. Bloke in the Fourth Reich

    Egypt’s slavery reparations took the form of the Gaza Strip.

    Israel tried to return it under warranty for being defective but the shop wouldn’t take it back.

  15. aoidjfdsofji – yeah well, that’s just like… your opinion, man.

    BiFR – they were told whey oh, whey oh. No fucking whey oh.

  16. @The Pedant-General

    That’s kind of exactly what the Emancipation Proclamation did. Often, problems this huge are resolved by ripping off the Band-Aid, not so much by gradually easing into a solution. Perhaps human nature just doesn’t work that way. Keep in mind, there was (at least slightly) better treatment in the North, and even in the South there were some white abolitionists and already-freed slaves (there were some who were able to buy their own freedom beforehand) who were willing to help black Americans with jobs, education or lodging. This is when all of those historically-black colleges and universities (HBCUs) and other such organizations were born.

    @Philip

    As Jordan Peterson has said, “The ultimate minority is the individual.”

    @dearieme

    I’ll trust a first-century historian over a post-modernist at a liberal arts university, or a loony on a blog who seems to think he was there to witness it firsthand. When universities stop censoring and banishing professors for political reasons, I’ll view the term “consensus” without a huge grain of salt.

    Nevertheless, from Wikipedia:

    Despite the absence of any archaeological evidence, a majority of scholars agree that the Exodus probably has some historical basis, with Kenton Sparks referring to it as “mythologized history.”

    There is a difference between believing every word of a religious text, and acknowledging that there are some droplets of historical context in it. Although, nuance clearly isn’t your strong suit.

    You’re mentioning Sierra Leone, when this entire thread is talking about American slavery, not British colonies. Unlike Freetown, Americo-Liberians were able to set up their own government. Without having to fight a war of independence, Americo-Liberians declared their independence in 1847 and within 15 years were recognized by the U.S. and other nations. Sierra Leone, on the other hand, did not gain independence from the UK until 1961. In the late 19th Century, the British governor was pulling the same taxation nonsense that George III did about a century before, and ended up fighting the Hut Tax War. In Liberia, the Americo-Liberians were fighting the indigenous Liberians (that’s a whole other can of worms), but were not in conflict with the U.S. There’s a difference between America’s ACS intent on helping ex-slaves (their theory being that these people would be better able to thrive under this arrangement) and Great Britain’s goal of further international conquest at the time.

    Again, not saying this was the correct way to handle freed slaves, but it was certainly an experiment that was put into practice.

    Anyway, way to stay on topic.

  17. @ aoidjfdsofji

    (i) Don’t be so fucking stupid. “You’re mentioning Sierra Leone, when this entire thread is talking about American slavery, not British colonies.” Don’t you understand “Loyalist ex-slaves from the former North American colonies” is precisely about American slavery?

    (ii) Exodus: “a majority of scholars” – if such a majority exists – may think it wise to appease Jewish sentiment. One among many reasons to disbelieve the Exodus is that the Hebrews are depicted as fleeing Egyptian rule by gadding off to Canaan. But at the time Canaan was Egyptian territory, a fact evidently unknown to whoever concocted the yarn many centuries later. Or maybe he consciously lied. It hardly matter which.

    Perhaps your “majority of scholars” are post-modernists at liberal arts universities. Or maybe rednecks at Bible colleges. Anyway, twits. There’s nothing in the Bible that’s historical until a little while before the Assyrians show up. After that there’s bits of history but with striking omissions. Alexander the Great – never ‘eard of ‘im, guv.

  18. @aoidjfdsofji
    Any chance you could change your name to something that reveals a smidge about yourself?
    aoidjfdsofji – An Old Ipswich Dandy Just Frigging Developing Software On Fifty Jaffas Income
    Unlikely
    But whatever it does mean it’s got to be so complicated only the nerdacious could figure it.
    For the record – Bongo – northern white guy with largish lips to face ratio when younger given vaguely amusing nickname at school which kind of stuck. It’s short and simple and I like it.
    But ‘aoidjfdsofji’ – seriously – get it changed to ‘bloke in whatever’ please

  19. ” Freetown in Sierra Leone was established for Loyalist ex-slaves from the former North American colonies; ”
    I’ve been to Freetown Sierra Leone.
    It was a monumental (& very dangerous) shithole

  20. I might as well point out that the Africans certainly owe the Yanks reparations for dumping all their paupers, criminals, enemies etc on them. And even demanding to be paid to do so!!!!

  21. I’ve been to Freetown Sierra Leone.
    It was a monumental (& very dangerous) shithole

    Can’t argue with that, except to say it’s far from the biggest or most dangerous shithole in W Africa (beaten by most places in Nigeria, just for starters).

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *