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Yes, yes, the enemy, now be fair

Russians turn to crowdfunding for ill-equipped soldiers in Ukraine
Everything from rifle scopes to boots have been sent to troops, paid for by ‘patriots’ through fundraising initiatives

Why are they “patriots”? Why the “”?

We see endless stories about how Estonians (was it?) have crowdfunded a drone for Ukraine for example.

Yes, yes, war, enemies, friends, etc, but let’s be British about this, shall we?

32 thoughts on “Yes, yes, the enemy, now be fair”

  1. Inadequately equipped young men being sent to fight in a highly questionable war and having to make do the best they can. A truly deplorable state of affairs all round.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2664349.stm

    More than half the soldiers in the British Army buy their own kit because the standard-issue is inadequate, figures have revealed.

  2. I did hear of various groups paying for Doc Martin boots for those military, usually the junior ranks as they were paid less, being sent to the Falklands, as they were superior to those officially supplied. The reports of troops wearing issue boots suffering from trenchfoot showed that this was a good move. No idea if the procurement arm of the government learnt this lesson.

  3. Western intelligence, though, gives a different picture. It has said that the war has humiliated Russia and that at least 15,000 soldiers have died because of poor leadership, planning and equipment.

    Western intelligence also says they ran out of ammo and fuel in March April May any minute now, the Ghost of Kiev has shot down 3,000 Russian warplanes plus the baddies from Iron Eagle, Russians are regularly committing genocide against Ukraine but also losing the war badly and it’s only a matter of time before victorious Ukrainian tanks roll into Moscow and unearth Saddam’s WMD.

    An intercepted mobile phone conversation from mid-May shows Russian soldiers are becoming increasingly frustrated with Moscow’s supplies.

    Russian troops aren’t allowed to have mobile phones, but this only proves the sophistication of the Ukrainian intelligence services in managing to supply a reliable stream of embarrassing mobile phone transcripts where the abhuman Moskvals are awed by Ukraine’s indoor plumbing, delicious Nutella and military might.

    Unfortunately, it seems the still-living martyred heroes of Snake Island might have not-died for nothing, as Russia’s laughably pathetic military – which is also a serious and deadly threat to Europe – unsportingly refuses to lose in accordance with Daily Telegraph prognostications.

  4. Russian troops aren’t allowed to have mobile phones, but this only proves the sophistication of the Ukrainian intelligence services in managing to supply a reliable stream of embarrassing mobile phone transcripts where the abhuman Moskvals are awed by Ukraine’s indoor plumbing, delicious Nutella and military might.

    Sure, the Russians had their phones confiscated before being moved to forward positions. So the first thing they did when turning up at some Ukrainian Phoneski4Youski is to steal a bunch of phones and SIM cards and call home to the family in Shitovia.

    Ukrainian intelligence lets these phones and SIMs be activated and just intercepts them for intelligence.

    Why wouldn’t any country do exactly the same? The intelligence is worth far more than the cost of a few SIMs, phones and calls.

  5. The Pedant-General

    “Why the “”?”

    I’m going to say “reported speech” and is ensuring that we don’t think that the BBC thinks that we should be cheering them on.

    I reckon that’s reasonably fair.

  6. JG – Ukrainian intelligence lets these phones and SIMs be activated and just intercepts them for intelligence.

    Ukrainian intelligence has told us more stories than Amber Heard, and they’re just as convincing. The purpose of confiscating mobile phones isn’t just to deny intelligence to the enemy, it’s to make it harder for them to geolocate you and follow up with a missile or artillery barrage that says “As Per My Previous Email”.

    There’s no evidence of Ukie intelligence doing anything except tell outrageous lies (Putin has cancer, monkeypox and bum AIDS and is about to be ASSASSINATED I tells thee!) to shore up domestic morale and convince their Western backers to keep the weapons dumps coming, but tbf that is their job and telling the truth isn’t.

  7. @PG

    I’m going to say “reported speech” and is ensuring that we don’t think that the BBC thinks that we should be cheering them on.

    Yes, if you read the Telegram channels these fundraisers are done on, they call themselves (direct quote, in fact pretty much direct transcription from the Russian) “patriot” groups. So as you surmised, it’s basically reported speech. Note that the report didn’t write “groups of patriotic Russians have been crowd-funding” in which “patriotic” would be a description bestowed by the reporter.

    If you spend any time in Russian “patriot” social media, a better description of what that maps to in political terms is probably “ultra-nationalist”. Has a similar flavour to Serbian pro-Arkan communities – really not very pleasant. Lots of talk about the racial, cultural and linguistic inferiority of neighbouring peoples as well as minorities in Russia (even those fighting in the Russian army – Chechens, Tuvans and so on get it in the neck). Restoring old glory and regaining ancient territories. Grudges as far back as medieval times. Rather pernicious ideas like Ukrainians, even Ukrainian-speakers, actually being “true Russians” who have been corrupted by years outside the motherland – given a few decades, complete re-education, banning of their language, banning the Ukrainian church and replacing it with the Moscow one, etc etc, it should be possible to turn the country back into a pure part of Russia. Whereas Central Asia, the Caucasus, Siberia etc are sadly doomed to be full with dirty non-Russians and impure mixed races, so need to be governed as colonial possessions with an iron hand. If you’re dreaming big, Poland and Finland are lost imperial possessions too.

    But they seem more energised about “regaining” Kazakhstan first – the Kazakh language is switching from Cyrillic to Latin alphabet to follow suit with the related Turkish and Turkmen languages. Wasn’t always Cyrillic – like Turkish, used Arabic script in the past until the Soviets switched it over – but this linguistic and cultural betrayal by switching to a “Western” alphabet has got Russian “patriots” very hot and bothered. Apparently makes them fear for the safety of the Russian minority that’s left in the country. And they know what needs to be done if Russians in a country are in danger…

  8. There’s no evidence of Ukie intelligence doing anything except tell outrageous lies

    Russian intelligence, on the other hand…

    When there’s something as complicated as an Eastern European war going on, and you’re ignorant enough to choose a tribe, it doesn’t bode well for your credibility.

    I know some people lack the ability to deal with nuance, but both are corrupt countries who spread their own propaganda. Neither does it more than the other.

    Again, I know some people are unable to fathom that, even after I’ve just called them out on their bullshit, and I know that makes these people appear extremely suspicious (or underdeveloped, at best), but it is possible for two things to be true at once. It’s the complete omission of an entire side of the argument that tells us everything we need to know about your grasp of the topic. It shows incredible weakness when you can’t place all the cards on the table to present your argument. Only bullshitters have something to hide.

    The only people who have presented such a one-sided argument without even mentioning the faults of their own “side” tend to fall into one of two categories:

    1. Useful idiots, like Joy Behar
    2. Propaganda couriers, like Ian Miles Cheong, who has written for RT

    So you can either provide a well-rounded view of the issue when you present your argument, which includes mentioning both strengths and faults for both sides, or you automatically fall into one of the two above categories. Let the infantile screaming commence…

  9. Steve: There’s no evidence of Ukie intelligence doing anything except tell outrageous lies

    oadjfoiadjf: Russian intelligence, on the other hand…
    When there’s something as complicated as an Eastern European war going on, and you’re ignorant enough to choose a tribe, it doesn’t bode well for your credibility.

    SO: Where has Steve chosen a tribe? All he did was warn people not to believe Ukrainian propaganda. He doesn’t have to tell you not to believe Russian propaganda, because (a) nobody was talking about that, and (b) it’s implicit in his position anyway.

    oadjfoiadjf: I know some people lack the ability to deal with nuance, but both are corrupt countries who spread their own propaganda. Neither does it more than the other.

    SO: You think we don’t know that? You seriously think that’s a “nuanced” POV rather than just being obvious to the simplest of minds?

  10. If you spend any time in Russian “patriot” social media, a better description of what that maps to in political terms is probably “ultra-nationalist”.

    Yes, but this is Slav nationalism in general. They’re all the Superior Adidas Master Race, completely unlike those suspiciously brown inbred troglodytes who live in the next village over and look exactly like them, but have never heard of indoor toilets or Nutella.

    The Russian shill bots are doing plenty of overtime today.

    Reeeeee!

    Russian intelligence, on the other hand…

    Russian intelligence is playing this one straight so far. Mainly just release a daily list of alleged casualties, strikes, etc. No doubt they’re lying through their arse, but they’re not writing Marvel-tier fanfic like their Kiev and Western counterparts are.

    Ukrainian intelligence is run by a 36 year old Major General in a camo fleece and they’re losing a particularly horrible and brutal war, so it’s understandable their narrative is all over the place. The West doesn’t have that excuse, but we live in a society where people face career ruin over a single misjudged tweet and absolutely zero consequences for absolute and persistent institutional failure, so I dunno.

    When there’s something as complicated as an Eastern European war going on, and you’re ignorant enough to choose a tribe, it doesn’t bode well for your credibility

    That’s NATO told then.

  11. @Spiro

    If the Twin Towers fall, and U.S. Intelligence finds out Al Qaeda planned it, and someone’s first instinct is to say, “The U.S. is an imperialist country with a corrupt government,” even if you can agree with a smidge of that person’s argument, you might also say, “Yeah…but isn’t Al Qaeda kinda bad too?”

    And if that person then changes the subject, or keeps talking about how bad the U.S. is, wouldn’t you find that a bit weird?

    A normal person would at least say something along the lines of, “Al Qaeda isn’t perfect, but…” Even if they have a view you completely disagree with, they would at least have the intellect to demonstrate that they’ve thought it through. That is, if they aren’t just repeating talking points from their favorite propagandists. It’s no different than listening to a hashtag activist who drones on about how “sexy” Zelenskyy is, and how we should ban all Russian people, but never once mentions the Azov Battalion or the valid point that NATO’s influence is a political threat to Putin.

    Steve’s argument so far has been, “Only an idiot would fall for that propaganda instead of this propaganda.” And not just on this particular thread, mind you. Seriously, I’m willing to wager that he’ll never deviate from the script.

  12. Russian intelligence is playing this one straight so far. Mainly just release a daily list of alleged casualties, strikes, etc. No doubt they’re lying through their arse, but they’re not writing Marvel-tier fanfic like their Kiev and Western counterparts are.

    “They’re not lying. They’re probably also lying, but they’re not lying.”

    The mental gymnastics this guy needs to use, Jesus. Learn to debate.

  13. Spiro – SO: Where has Steve chosen a tribe?

    Idk how many times I’ve pointed out that Russia is a horribly corrupt, backwards, gangster ridden mafia state run by a sociopathic crook who’s going to Hell, but it doesn’t matter.

    oadjfoiadjf – reading comprehension is your friend.

    In reply to your stunning (and brave) big brained hot take that – hold the phone – BOTH sides are liars, I explained to you the difference between Russian and Ukraine/NATO propaganda.

    Do keep up, laddie.

  14. “The Russians aren’t my enemy.”

    My father taught me to shoot saying “Next time the Germans might be Russians”. A reasonable point from the old boy, I’d say.

    Now, though, I’d be inclined to leave NATO and let the Krauts defend everyone. Our defending the Low Countries – I see the point. Moldova? Nope.

  15. The “difference” you explained between the types of propaganda, is that one is funnier. Not sure why that matters so much. Just as inaccurate as the other propaganda. Remember when the Russian government said they’re only going to neutralize the Nazis? I didn’t realize that required killing so many non-Nazis as well.

    Can you explain why the person running Russia is a “sociopathic crook who’s going to Hell?” Are you allowed to even mention his name?

    Out of the three entities you listed, which one of those currently has millions of innocent people fleeing with their families to safety? And why is that? And, before you answer, keep in mind that I have a roommate from Poland, and her family still lives there. So giving me the whole “there aren’t that many casualties” routine isn’t going to work here. Nor is the “It’s someone other than Russians making them flee” line.

  16. Russian intelligence is playing this one straight so far. Mainly just release a daily list of alleged casualties, strikes, etc. No doubt they’re lying through their arse, but they’re not writing Marvel-tier fanfic like their Kiev and Western counterparts are.

    Get the fuck outta my face with this bullshit moral equivalence.

    The Russians have been lying their asses off since day one and continue to do so. The cruiser Moscow “felt a bit tired, so it went for a nap at the bottom of the Black Sea”. Totally not distracted by drones and then sunk by Uke anti-ship missiles then.

    Before the Russians invaded I wouldn’t have given a fiddlers cuss for either side, but having invaded and done so incompetently, the Russians deserve all they get.

    20 Kopeks have been deposited in your shill account.

  17. Remember when the Russian government said they’re only going to neutralize the Nazis? I didn’t realize that required killing so many non-Nazis as well.

    I think they’ll probably point to the “disarm” part of the “disarm and denazify” mission statement.

    Can you explain why the person running Russia is a “sociopathic crook who’s going to Hell?”

    Easily. It’s why the third temptation of Jesus in the desert involved Satan promising Earthly power: “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” We don’t live in a world where kind, wise and good people ascend the hierarchy of political dominance. We live in a mortal vallis lacrimarum because of original sin / our ancestry being evil monkeys (delete as preferred)

    Are you allowed to even mention his name?

    Wot

    Out of the three entities you listed, which one of those currently has millions of innocent people fleeing with their families to safety?

    The side that’s losing.

    And why is that?

    They’ve been invaded by Russia.

    And, before you answer, keep in mind that I have a roommate from Poland

    Sad.

    So giving me the whole “there aren’t that many casualties” routine isn’t going to work here.

    What routine? The human cost of this war is horrific and getting worse by the day. I’m horrified more people aren’t horrified by the worst refugee crisis in post-WW2 European history, and the butcher’s bill of Ukrainian boys, men and now old men being pounded into chunky salsa by Russian artillery, the poverty and hunger and unemployment that are in the post, and the significant threat that this will turn out to be merely the phoney baloney war stage of WW3.

    But they don’t really care. Putting a gay little Ukranian flag on their social media avatar is a displacement activity for caring. This is a grand realignment of the mammaries, and unfortunately they’re pointing skyward.

  18. JG – Before the Russians invaded I wouldn’t have given a fiddlers cuss for either side, but having invaded and done so incompetently, the Russians deserve all they get.

    They deserve the Donbass and the Black Sea coastline? Bold.

    20 Kopeks have been deposited in your shill account

    You are worse than a midwit, you are – may Allah forgive me – a Redditor.

  19. They deserve the Donbass and the Black Sea coastline? Bold.

    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings. Let’s see how much support Donbass gets when Putin is given the Khrushchev option of retiring to his dacha or a short walk down a long corridor followed by a guard with a gun.

    Putin has already fucked up big time and is only dodging the bullets by a hairs breadth. Once he’s out of the way (6 foot under or retired to his dacha), his replacement will dump his worthless yet extremely costly support for Donbas, Luhansk, Transnistria and the rest of the post-Soviet bollocks like the expensive hot potatoes that they are. Once the financial support is gone they’ll reintegrate into their respective sovereign states since the alternative is continued decay into irrelevance.

  20. He has a very difficult time differentiating between simping for Ukraine and not being a Putin apologist. A bottomless pit of black-and-white thinking. Some people are only as smart as their vocabulary. *sigh*

    I can understand an ideologue fishing for gullible followers on Twitter, or through a mass email campaign, but attempting this shite on a blog with a learning curve takes a huge (or retarded) set of huevos.

    When someone has a good, or at least valid, point, they’re able to present it without projecting so much of their insecurities in the process. If his arguments were an essay, it would be a thesis statement, one weak supporting paragraph with a ton of logistical holes, and one 8-page paragraph ranting about how everyone else’s essay sucks so hard. It would have more red marks than actual substance.

    Most people simply move on once they’ve been found out.

  21. Most people simply move on once they’ve been found out.

    All I see are a number of BBC Brainwashed losing their shit and being cunty, while Steve serenely points out your bollocks.

  22. They think we’ve forgotten their previous attempts in previous months.

    I don’t even live in the UK, and purposely never watch that BBC filth. Get a better narrative.

  23. @Steve

    Yes, but this is Slav nationalism in general. They’re all the Superior Adidas Master Race, completely unlike those suspiciously brown inbred troglodytes who live in the next village over and look exactly like them, but have never heard of indoor toilets or Nutella.

    Not uniquely Russian, but there’s a couple of bonus reasons to care rather more when Russians get fevered up with this crap, than you might for a smaller tribe of Slavs. When the Serbs or Croats or (not Slavs but same ball-park) Hungarians go off on one about “gathering all the lost lands”, they are basically het up about a few valleys and the odd plain. When Russian ultra-nationalists are slathering about it, they mean taking over mindbogglingly enormous swathes of Eurasia. “Patriots” tend to have a maximalist view of this war, hoping Putin will annex pretty much all of Ukraine – until now the largest country in Europe bar Russia itself, yet could end up being swallowed like a prickly little fish by a whale. The “patriots” also want Kazakhstan, which is over four times larger than Ukraine. Opinion polls show a substantial number of Russians would like to get Poland back. They have gone off the deep end.

    The other reason to worry is that unlike potential Balkan or central European troublemakers, Russia has an enormous army, significant mineral wealth and enough non-western trading partners that they’re not going to be totally isolated. And while their military has not performed to expectations, they are – as the economists would say – “learning by doing”. Very bloody and expensive way to learn, but they do seem to be improving, and there’s no other leading world military whose forces have had this kind of opportunity to test themselves in high-intensity peer conflict (at least, not for a couple of decades now). Unlike some on here, I’m also not entirely optimistic Putin will get replaced by someone more reasonable. If a sufficiently strong spiritual and patriotic hunger for conquest and setting the world to rights has been implanted in enough of the Russians who matter, then we could be in for a really crappy next few decades.

  24. @Anon

    Unlike some on here, I’m also not entirely optimistic Putin will get replaced by someone more reasonable. If a sufficiently strong spiritual and patriotic hunger for conquest and setting the world to rights has been implanted in enough of the Russians who matter, then we could be in for a really crappy next few decades.

    Completely agree. That’s why Biden needs to keep America’s ass out of this. There are warmongers on both the left and the right cheering on this bloodbath and funding the war like they’re fanning out dollar bills at the strip club. Our government just sent $40 billion to a random country, and then told us there isn’t enough money to fix our Southern border. They sent guns and ammo to a bunch of civilians, and then started taking away our guns. Just today, the Governor of New York signed a bill outlawing bulletproof vests in the entire state. We can now only buy or sell bulletproof vests if we use them for an “eligible” profession.

    Everyday, they make the idea of government unappealing altogether. It’s only a matter of time until Biden gets too involved and fucks this up royally as well.

  25. I mean, fuck – even we did it.

    Optics, armor, RC cars when we figured out IEDs were going to be an ongoing hazard. Troops buying some gear personally because the units couldn’t pay for it it.

    I had to buy my own marine band radio and gps because the unit’s gear was always broken. They certainly weren’t going to pay for even so much as a paper notebook.

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