“Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.” — Richard Feynman
1912 to 1959 = Plate Tectonics is nonsense. 1959 = Wegener recognised as plate tectonics is determined to be a fact.
1890’s to 1985 = Stomach ulcers are caused by stress and diet. 2005, Nobel Prize awarded to Marshall and Warren for discovering the role of H. pylori.
1922 to 1968 = Milankovitch cycles have no effect on the climate. 1969 = Milankovitch cycles DO have an effect on the climate.
There are probably many, many more………
Jonathan
Always bearing in mind that there are, and have always been, Scientists who don’t like being questioned or debated…
Boganboy
‘It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.
Richard P. Feynman’
Bloke in the Fourth Reich
Well, what are we debating?
“The existence, importance, and legitimacy of trans people…”
The existence? Not up for debate, they exist.
Importance and legitimacy? Let’s be nonpendantic about this and understand this as a basic human dignity thing.
Again, it is true in supposed liberal democracies that fundamental human dignity is considered beyond debate*. You may vehemently disapprove of hairy blokes prancing around in dresses and fishnets, where and in front of whom hairy blokes may prance in dresses and fishnets is certainly a legitimate topic of debate, perhaps even legislation, but one separate from the underlying fact that they are humans and we grant some assumption of dignity to all humans.
This is the very bait and switch the trans lobby loves. You wish to not introduce an hourly trans drag queen story hour to your local primary school makes you an intolerant bigoted transphobe.
*: Obviously whether “the unvaccinated” enjoy fundamental human dignity has been “debated”, in a rather partisan manner, by the very people promoting the current thing to toddlers.
Patrick
I thought objectively provable verifiable facts were racist these days.
Addolff
BiFR, when ‘Rainbow Dildo Monkey’ and the like want to perform in front of children they have demonstrated that they are not worthy of ANY respect.
dearieme
“In science, for example, the truth is the thing …”: wrong tense, old boy. Should read ‘In science, for example, the truth was the thing …’
I don’t have many heroes, but RPF is certainly one of them!
Steve
BiFR – depends on what we mean by ‘exist’, no?
There’s no medical or biological reason to believe people can be born in the ‘wrong’ sex, or that drugs and surgery can change a human’s sex. The entire category of ‘transgender’ is built on false claims about reality, much like sovereign citizens. Demented people who think quasi-legal magic words will get them out of obeying laws do exist, but they’re wrong and their arguments are laughable.
Back to the dopey journo: I am trans, I am neither a cis woman or trans man, I am on birth control, and I may someday need an abortion.
She’s literally a straight white woman who thinks having they/them pronouns makes her ‘queer’ and ‘trans’ (muh sweet oppreshun points). Does she exist? Sure, as an idiot. But not as a ‘transgender’, because it’s not a real category that objectively exists in four-dimensional spacetime.
Anti-abortion legislation and anti-trans legislation are both rooted in this fundamentalist, white supremacist value system
Lol
queer and trans people are afraid to go outside
LMAO
But this is an interesting observation:
But if you’re criticizing trans people for wanting coverage of reproductive rights to accurately reflect a trans-inclusive movement that already exists, perhaps you are not actually invested in fighting white supremacy or Christian nationalism, or fighting for reproductive justice – because you can’t do these things separately.
She’s saying evil is a package deal. If you accept child sacrifice you must also support anti-white racial agitation and that middle aged pervert in Canada who identifies as a little girl. I think she’s right, because progressivism always winds up supporting man-made horrors beyond human comprehension.
Van_Patten
I am reluctant to engage in these discussions on the terms of bad faith actors, which these publications and others have proven themselves to be. As journalist Shon Faye, author of The Trans Issue – released in 2021 in the UK and forthcoming stateside from Verso this fall – wrote in her book’s introduction, “Such debates are time-consuming, exhausting distractions from what we should really be focusing on: the material ways in which we are oppressed.” Faye recalls an anecdote about the late author Toni Morrison speaking at a university in 1975 on distraction as the “very serious function” of racism.
It’s actually quite remarkable reading the whole teen Vogue piece as its an interesting insight into the mindset of a frankly near psychopathic fantasist. Trans people are very far from being oppressed. Indeed in academia and across much of society they are the ones doing the oppressing, with the enthusiastic collusion of vast swathes of ‘progressive’ opinion.
As Them contributor James Factora pointed out in his response to Paul’s op-ed, the premise is “an almost self-parodic invocation of the ‘both sides’ fallacy to which the Times remains so devoted.” This “bothsiderism” is a liberal tenet; hearing all sides to an argument, in theory, is a nice idea. In reality, it’s often malpractice — and it’s something that trans writers and advocates have been calling the media out over for years. Here’s The Daily Beast in 2018: “[Outlets] present quotes from anti-transgender voices without providing the necessary information to assess the claims being made therein. They give equal weight to the opinions of anti-LGBT groups and to the positions of major medical associations, or the conclusions of independent studies.”
If there’s a single ‘independent study’ that doesn’t turn out to be funded by an explicitly pro Trans organization I’d be gobsmacked. As for ‘major medical associations’ – is this similar to the ‘Climate Change discussion’ whereby medical practitioners that insist black is white are apparently beyond argument?
Liberals do not want to be called white supremacists, and strain to distance themselves from Christian nationalists who spent decades sowing Roe’s overturning. But if you’re criticizing trans people for wanting coverage of reproductive rights to accurately reflect a trans-inclusive movement that already exists, perhaps you are not actually invested in fighting white supremacy or Christian nationalism, or fighting for reproductive justice – because you can’t do these things separately. Some liberals would rather throw their lot in with the same people they spent the whole Trump administration calling the scourge of the earth than take a moral stance for trans people.
‘You’re either with us or against us’ – the narcissism and false occupation of the moral high ground is simply breathtaking to behold.
The article is truly a masterpiece. It encapsulates the Alice in Wonderland level to which we have fallen…
Ottokring
Sir Bedevere:
…and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped.
King Arthur:
This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep’s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
Addolff
TomJ, as people like myself tried to point out during the Covid terror, the molecules are betwee 50 to 140 nanomoeters = 0.05 to 0.14 microns.
Molecules this size are known to travel 300 feet+ and cannot be stopped by N95* masks (let alone a blue ‘surgical mask’ or any old bit of rag as mandated by TPTB), rendering any advice about social distancing to be irrelevant. The 100 micron / droplets discussion is a red herring.
They knew this but pretended not to so as to add to the ‘theatre’ and to instill fear into the populace. Which they did.
*N95 masks are tested using 0.3 micron particles.
Steve
VP – Trans people are very far from being oppressed. Indeed in academia and across much of society they are the ones doing the oppressing, with the enthusiastic collusion of vast swathes of ‘progressive’ opinion.
This is true, but it’s important to claim oppressionhood because that’s how the progressive social hierarchy works.
I reckon it derives from a bastardised form of Marxism, the idea of mutually antagonistic class categories whose relationship to each other is defined by conflict. The Oppressed are always legitimate (they’re camped out on the moral high ground, fighting a righteous class struggle), the Oppressor is always illegitimate and oppressey and probably some sort of racist.
It’s how come crybullying has become the dominant mode of proggy discourse. It’s how come multi-billion pound companies such as EE are funding expensive marketing campaigns accusing you of “sexist hate” if you don’t think ladies’ football is very good:
Marc Allera, CEO of EE, commented, “While the majority will be rightly giving their support to the athletes competing in the Women’s Euros this summer, there will be the vocal minority trying to denounce and discredit the women’s game. Now, more than ever, it is imperative we come together to champion hope over hate, placing the onus on men to own the problem: this is why EE Hope United will continue to help shape a safer online world, giving others the confidence and knowhow to help call out and put a stop to online sexist hate.”
You and I might think it’s probably not a positive brand association for a mobile phone company to scold its own customers as woman-hating bastards and subject them to Gareth Southgate’s ugly, gurning, penalty-missing face.
But if they were honest about this stuff it’d be fatal to the Current Thing. The Current Thing demands permanent outrage, especially so when the supposed victim class du jour observably isn’t victimised in the slightest. The lack of actual oppression against women, or blacks, or trannies simply fuels the whingeogenesis of increasingly elaborate pretendy ‘oppression’.
It’s all so tiresome.
Fhfhjfjr
If someone told you Nairobi is a city in the UK, you would just laugh at their absurdity. You certainly wouldn’t take away their right to say it, no matter how inaccurate it is. That’s because you know you’re right, and don’t feel doubtful about your own beliefs.
jgh
Nairobi is not a city in the UK regardless of my or anybody else’s beliefs.
bloke in spain
Some cities in the UK might become Nairobi, though. If they weren’t already Islamabad.
BlokeInTejas
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” [Phillip K Dick, apparently]
Works for stuff.
Doesn’t work for Bullshite beliefs. If your government acts as if it believes that Armageddon is happening, and controls you as it sees fit in an alleged attempt to mitigate the presumed horror, that control still happens whether or not Armageddon is a real thing.
starfish
My favourite Feynman quote is “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled”
Made in his addendum to the Challenger Commission report
He was a true scientist
“The only way to have real success in science, the field I’m familiar with, is to describe the evidence very carefully without regard to the way you feel it should be. If you have a theory, you must try to explain what’s good and what’s bad about it equally. In science, you learn a kind of standard integrity and honesty.”
Clearly not a bumper sticker on climate catastrophists’ cars….
Addolff
“Marc Allera, CEO of EE, commented, “While the majority will be rightly giving their support to the athletes competing in the Women’s Euros this summer, there will be the vocal minority trying to denounce and discredit the women’s game. Now, more than ever, it is imperative we come together to champion hope over hate, placing the onus on men to own the problem: this is why EE Hope United will continue to help shape a safer online world, giving others the confidence and know how to help call out and put a stop to online sexist hate.”
I watch English Premiership and Championship Football.
I don’t watch Division One or lower Football.
I watch PDC darts.
I don’t watch BDC darts.
I watch MotoGP or WSB bike racing,
I don’t watch Moto2, Moto3 or BSB.
Does any of this make me a hater? Because I want to watch the elite competing at my favourite sports?
This ties into the comment from BiFR on the thread regarding the trans bollocks. Bait and switch.
I also don’t watch Tennis, Golf, Cricket, World Climbing championship, Pro Celebrity Strictly on Ice Dancing Bake Off, Fencing (why they think watching a couple of labourers erecting waney edge panels is beyond me, but if it floats your boat…) or lots else. What does that make me? (rhetorical question, but fill your boots…..)
PJF
Now, more than ever, it is imperative we come together to champion hope over hate, placing the onus on men to own the problem . . .
This fucking twat has a problem he should be made to own. Men and Women coming together in hope, and championship-stamping on him while he cowers on the ground might do the trick. A mass campaign to change away from EE tariffs could also work.
Kaneda
@ Steve
“It’s all so tiresome”
Great film.
philip
I await with interest the moment when EE and other right ons realise the shameful lack of diversity. All white blondes with pony tails, no trans, probably mostly heterosexual.
The pivot coming in three, two…
Stonyground
With reference to the first comment by Addolff. Those are examples of how science is supposed to work. For example, the scientific establishment were right to be sceptical about plate tectonics until the available evidence was irrefutable. When a scientific position is proven to mistaken, the new position is provisionally adopted. The alternative is to stubbornly continue to be mistaken. The problem with the hypothesis that a minute increase in atmospheric CO2 will cause catastrophic climate change is that it has been disproven by a mountain of empirical evidence.
dearieme
Wegener’s theory wasn’t Plate Tectonics; his theory was Continental Drift. Plate Tectonics simply provided the mechanism by which Continental Drift happened.
My geography teacher at school had long taught Continental Drift while explaining that it was, or had been, contentious.
Now, why had the Blessed Miss Young, a mere schoolmarm, been right for so many years when so much of the geological establishment, particularly in the US, had been wrong?
“Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.” — Richard Feynman
1912 to 1959 = Plate Tectonics is nonsense. 1959 = Wegener recognised as plate tectonics is determined to be a fact.
1890’s to 1985 = Stomach ulcers are caused by stress and diet. 2005, Nobel Prize awarded to Marshall and Warren for discovering the role of H. pylori.
1922 to 1968 = Milankovitch cycles have no effect on the climate. 1969 = Milankovitch cycles DO have an effect on the climate.
There are probably many, many more………
Always bearing in mind that there are, and have always been, Scientists who don’t like being questioned or debated…
‘It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.
Richard P. Feynman’
Well, what are we debating?
“The existence, importance, and legitimacy of trans people…”
The existence? Not up for debate, they exist.
Importance and legitimacy? Let’s be nonpendantic about this and understand this as a basic human dignity thing.
Again, it is true in supposed liberal democracies that fundamental human dignity is considered beyond debate*. You may vehemently disapprove of hairy blokes prancing around in dresses and fishnets, where and in front of whom hairy blokes may prance in dresses and fishnets is certainly a legitimate topic of debate, perhaps even legislation, but one separate from the underlying fact that they are humans and we grant some assumption of dignity to all humans.
This is the very bait and switch the trans lobby loves. You wish to not introduce an hourly trans drag queen story hour to your local primary school makes you an intolerant bigoted transphobe.
*: Obviously whether “the unvaccinated” enjoy fundamental human dignity has been “debated”, in a rather partisan manner, by the very people promoting the current thing to toddlers.
I thought objectively provable verifiable facts were racist these days.
BiFR, when ‘Rainbow Dildo Monkey’ and the like want to perform in front of children they have demonstrated that they are not worthy of ANY respect.
“In science, for example, the truth is the thing …”: wrong tense, old boy. Should read ‘In science, for example, the truth was the thing …’
@Adolff: 1951-2020 – viral particles bigger than 5 microns are only transmitted in droplets and hence fall to the ground within 6ft. 2020 – maybe we were wrong about that and it could be that particles of up to 100 microns are infectious when airborne…
@Boganboy – July 26, 2022 at 8:21 am
‘It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.
Richard P. Feynman’
Just in case anyone thinks you’re making it up, the following clip shows Feynman in full-flow and your quote appears in the first minute…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw
I don’t have many heroes, but RPF is certainly one of them!
BiFR – depends on what we mean by ‘exist’, no?
There’s no medical or biological reason to believe people can be born in the ‘wrong’ sex, or that drugs and surgery can change a human’s sex. The entire category of ‘transgender’ is built on false claims about reality, much like sovereign citizens. Demented people who think quasi-legal magic words will get them out of obeying laws do exist, but they’re wrong and their arguments are laughable.
Back to the dopey journo: I am trans, I am neither a cis woman or trans man, I am on birth control, and I may someday need an abortion.
She’s literally a straight white woman who thinks having they/them pronouns makes her ‘queer’ and ‘trans’ (muh sweet oppreshun points). Does she exist? Sure, as an idiot. But not as a ‘transgender’, because it’s not a real category that objectively exists in four-dimensional spacetime.
Anti-abortion legislation and anti-trans legislation are both rooted in this fundamentalist, white supremacist value system
Lol
queer and trans people are afraid to go outside
LMAO
But this is an interesting observation:
But if you’re criticizing trans people for wanting coverage of reproductive rights to accurately reflect a trans-inclusive movement that already exists, perhaps you are not actually invested in fighting white supremacy or Christian nationalism, or fighting for reproductive justice – because you can’t do these things separately.
She’s saying evil is a package deal. If you accept child sacrifice you must also support anti-white racial agitation and that middle aged pervert in Canada who identifies as a little girl. I think she’s right, because progressivism always winds up supporting man-made horrors beyond human comprehension.
I am reluctant to engage in these discussions on the terms of bad faith actors, which these publications and others have proven themselves to be. As journalist Shon Faye, author of The Trans Issue – released in 2021 in the UK and forthcoming stateside from Verso this fall – wrote in her book’s introduction, “Such debates are time-consuming, exhausting distractions from what we should really be focusing on: the material ways in which we are oppressed.” Faye recalls an anecdote about the late author Toni Morrison speaking at a university in 1975 on distraction as the “very serious function” of racism.
It’s actually quite remarkable reading the whole teen Vogue piece as its an interesting insight into the mindset of a frankly near psychopathic fantasist. Trans people are very far from being oppressed. Indeed in academia and across much of society they are the ones doing the oppressing, with the enthusiastic collusion of vast swathes of ‘progressive’ opinion.
As Them contributor James Factora pointed out in his response to Paul’s op-ed, the premise is “an almost self-parodic invocation of the ‘both sides’ fallacy to which the Times remains so devoted.” This “bothsiderism” is a liberal tenet; hearing all sides to an argument, in theory, is a nice idea. In reality, it’s often malpractice — and it’s something that trans writers and advocates have been calling the media out over for years. Here’s The Daily Beast in 2018: “[Outlets] present quotes from anti-transgender voices without providing the necessary information to assess the claims being made therein. They give equal weight to the opinions of anti-LGBT groups and to the positions of major medical associations, or the conclusions of independent studies.”
If there’s a single ‘independent study’ that doesn’t turn out to be funded by an explicitly pro Trans organization I’d be gobsmacked. As for ‘major medical associations’ – is this similar to the ‘Climate Change discussion’ whereby medical practitioners that insist black is white are apparently beyond argument?
Liberals do not want to be called white supremacists, and strain to distance themselves from Christian nationalists who spent decades sowing Roe’s overturning. But if you’re criticizing trans people for wanting coverage of reproductive rights to accurately reflect a trans-inclusive movement that already exists, perhaps you are not actually invested in fighting white supremacy or Christian nationalism, or fighting for reproductive justice – because you can’t do these things separately. Some liberals would rather throw their lot in with the same people they spent the whole Trump administration calling the scourge of the earth than take a moral stance for trans people.
‘You’re either with us or against us’ – the narcissism and false occupation of the moral high ground is simply breathtaking to behold.
The article is truly a masterpiece. It encapsulates the Alice in Wonderland level to which we have fallen…
Sir Bedevere:
…and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped.
King Arthur:
This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep’s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
TomJ, as people like myself tried to point out during the Covid terror, the molecules are betwee 50 to 140 nanomoeters = 0.05 to 0.14 microns.
Molecules this size are known to travel 300 feet+ and cannot be stopped by N95* masks (let alone a blue ‘surgical mask’ or any old bit of rag as mandated by TPTB), rendering any advice about social distancing to be irrelevant. The 100 micron / droplets discussion is a red herring.
They knew this but pretended not to so as to add to the ‘theatre’ and to instill fear into the populace. Which they did.
*N95 masks are tested using 0.3 micron particles.
VP – Trans people are very far from being oppressed. Indeed in academia and across much of society they are the ones doing the oppressing, with the enthusiastic collusion of vast swathes of ‘progressive’ opinion.
This is true, but it’s important to claim oppressionhood because that’s how the progressive social hierarchy works.
I reckon it derives from a bastardised form of Marxism, the idea of mutually antagonistic class categories whose relationship to each other is defined by conflict. The Oppressed are always legitimate (they’re camped out on the moral high ground, fighting a righteous class struggle), the Oppressor is always illegitimate and oppressey and probably some sort of racist.
It’s how come crybullying has become the dominant mode of proggy discourse. It’s how come multi-billion pound companies such as EE are funding expensive marketing campaigns accusing you of “sexist hate” if you don’t think ladies’ football is very good:
Marc Allera, CEO of EE, commented, “While the majority will be rightly giving their support to the athletes competing in the Women’s Euros this summer, there will be the vocal minority trying to denounce and discredit the women’s game. Now, more than ever, it is imperative we come together to champion hope over hate, placing the onus on men to own the problem: this is why EE Hope United will continue to help shape a safer online world, giving others the confidence and knowhow to help call out and put a stop to online sexist hate.”
You and I might think it’s probably not a positive brand association for a mobile phone company to scold its own customers as woman-hating bastards and subject them to Gareth Southgate’s ugly, gurning, penalty-missing face.
But if they were honest about this stuff it’d be fatal to the Current Thing. The Current Thing demands permanent outrage, especially so when the supposed victim class du jour observably isn’t victimised in the slightest. The lack of actual oppression against women, or blacks, or trannies simply fuels the whingeogenesis of increasingly elaborate pretendy ‘oppression’.
It’s all so tiresome.
If someone told you Nairobi is a city in the UK, you would just laugh at their absurdity. You certainly wouldn’t take away their right to say it, no matter how inaccurate it is. That’s because you know you’re right, and don’t feel doubtful about your own beliefs.
Nairobi is not a city in the UK regardless of my or anybody else’s beliefs.
Some cities in the UK might become Nairobi, though. If they weren’t already Islamabad.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” [Phillip K Dick, apparently]
Works for stuff.
Doesn’t work for Bullshite beliefs. If your government acts as if it believes that Armageddon is happening, and controls you as it sees fit in an alleged attempt to mitigate the presumed horror, that control still happens whether or not Armageddon is a real thing.
My favourite Feynman quote is “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled”
Made in his addendum to the Challenger Commission report
He was a true scientist
“The only way to have real success in science, the field I’m familiar with, is to describe the evidence very carefully without regard to the way you feel it should be. If you have a theory, you must try to explain what’s good and what’s bad about it equally. In science, you learn a kind of standard integrity and honesty.”
Clearly not a bumper sticker on climate catastrophists’ cars….
“Marc Allera, CEO of EE, commented, “While the majority will be rightly giving their support to the athletes competing in the Women’s Euros this summer, there will be the vocal minority trying to denounce and discredit the women’s game. Now, more than ever, it is imperative we come together to champion hope over hate, placing the onus on men to own the problem: this is why EE Hope United will continue to help shape a safer online world, giving others the confidence and know how to help call out and put a stop to online sexist hate.”
I watch English Premiership and Championship Football.
I don’t watch Division One or lower Football.
I watch PDC darts.
I don’t watch BDC darts.
I watch MotoGP or WSB bike racing,
I don’t watch Moto2, Moto3 or BSB.
Does any of this make me a hater? Because I want to watch the elite competing at my favourite sports?
This ties into the comment from BiFR on the thread regarding the trans bollocks. Bait and switch.
I also don’t watch Tennis, Golf, Cricket, World Climbing championship, Pro Celebrity Strictly on Ice Dancing Bake Off, Fencing (why they think watching a couple of labourers erecting waney edge panels is beyond me, but if it floats your boat…) or lots else. What does that make me? (rhetorical question, but fill your boots…..)
Now, more than ever, it is imperative we come together to champion hope over hate, placing the onus on men to own the problem . . .
This fucking twat has a problem he should be made to own. Men and Women coming together in hope, and championship-stamping on him while he cowers on the ground might do the trick. A mass campaign to change away from EE tariffs could also work.
@ Steve
“It’s all so tiresome”
Great film.
I await with interest the moment when EE and other right ons realise the shameful lack of diversity. All white blondes with pony tails, no trans, probably mostly heterosexual.
The pivot coming in three, two…
With reference to the first comment by Addolff. Those are examples of how science is supposed to work. For example, the scientific establishment were right to be sceptical about plate tectonics until the available evidence was irrefutable. When a scientific position is proven to mistaken, the new position is provisionally adopted. The alternative is to stubbornly continue to be mistaken. The problem with the hypothesis that a minute increase in atmospheric CO2 will cause catastrophic climate change is that it has been disproven by a mountain of empirical evidence.
Wegener’s theory wasn’t Plate Tectonics; his theory was Continental Drift. Plate Tectonics simply provided the mechanism by which Continental Drift happened.
My geography teacher at school had long taught Continental Drift while explaining that it was, or had been, contentious.
Now, why had the Blessed Miss Young, a mere schoolmarm, been right for so many years when so much of the geological establishment, particularly in the US, had been wrong?
You know the answer is “incentives”.