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Not their fault!

Doctors and nurses often “weight-shame” people who are overweight or obese, leaving them feeling anxious, depressed and wrongly blaming themselves for their condition, research has found.

Such behaviour, although usually the result of “unconscious weight bias”, leads to people not attending medical appointments, feeling humiliated and being more likely to put on weight.

The problem is so widespread around the world that health professionals need to be taught as students that excess weight is almost guaranteed in modern society and not the fault of individuals, so they treat people more sensitively, according to the authors of the study, who have shared their findings with the Guardian.

No one must ever take personal responsibility, obviously. Instead we must abolish capitalism no doubt.

76 thoughts on “Not their fault!”

  1. Exactly. I was the thinnest one there at my surgery when I had my last appointment. It was like being on one of those whale watching boats.

    They still compaied that I was overweight,when in fact I was under the national average !

  2. So doctors and nurses often have an “unconscious weight bias”.

    Why is it only unconscious? Does their training not tell them being overweight is unhealthy, or have they repressed the idea?

  3. ’….health professionals need to be taught as students that excess weight is almost guaranteed in modern society and not the fault of individual….’

    *speechless*

    It’s just utterly brazen, isn’t it?

  4. @Allthegoodnamesaretaken: “And what percentage of NHS nurses are overweight / obese?”

    I’ve recently had a couple of periods in hospital and generally the nurses weren’t overweight, mainly because they’re on the go non-stop. The ancillary staff, on the other hand, were mostly huge. I will swear one who took me for an X-ray was wider than she was tall and resembled a marshmallow more than anything else.

  5. Can you fen-phen me now?

    Rather than stampede straight to “abolish capitalism”, can we try legalizing drugs (including weight-loss drugs) first? Is legalization consistent with libertarianism?

  6. legalization consistent with libertarianism?

    It is. The right to ingest/inject whatever one wishes to.

    But the question is really one of Utilitarianism. Is the cost greater than the benefit ?

  7. Now here’s a thing. I seem to have lost weight in recent months. I’m now about 5 kilos under what I’d like to be. But, according to this article – ” excess weight is almost guaranteed in modern society and not the fault of individuals” – I should have put on 3 or 4 kilos. What’s gone wrong?

  8. Can you let me live my nonviolent life now?

    Ottokring

    Shouldn’t we each get to decide for ourselves, having access to all the current information?

    Why was I a criminal for smoking pot during the 1980s, then suddenly in 2020 legal weed stores were classified as “essential businesses” and allowed to remain open during the first covid hysteria in this state?

    Was I more knowledgeable all along about the effects of pot on my health than my government was?

  9. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    Due to minor health issues, I have done virtually no exercise for a few months. I have also been eating like a pig and drinking beer more than usual. I have therefore put on lots of weight.

    How, exactly is that not my fault?

    Having now been given the all clear to resume cycling and running, I shall be doing something about this excess weight promptly.

    How exactly is that not totally in my control?

  10. Whatever excuse is made about different people having different issues with weight (which is true) the basic equation of “calories in” – “calories out” = “weight gain/loss” holds true.

    These fatties are eating too much whether they like it or not. Perhaps “modern society” will change when we can’t afford to eat this winter. That or the WEF remove 30% of agricultural output to save Gaia (by reducing the number of humans living on her).

  11. Can you brainwash me with food adverts now?

    Fatty Tucker

    Does advertising influence us? Do social norms affect us? When I’m in town, why do I feel such a strong inhibition to going for a walk during the day when other ppl shame me for my shabby clothes, bad haircut, introverted personality, etc.? Whereas alone in the forest commons, where no one else wants to go for any length of time that bothers me, I get crazy amounts of exercise walking all over as much as I want, fetching water, clearing old trails, hiking up the hill to get a spectacular view of Mount Raineer, etc.?

    I know it’s healthier for me to sleep outside, but why do laws and landlord policies prohibit me?

  12. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    the basic equation of “calories in” – “calories out” = “weight gain/loss” holds true.

    Agree, and any “nutritional expert” who argues otherwise is ignoring the laws of thermodynamics.

  13. What is the ‘correct’ weight a Human should be?

    Do we find it in the same book that shows the ‘correct’ global temperature and ‘correct’ climate?

    We are now on average much taller than our ancestors – due to eating more. Is being taller due to eating more ‘our fault’?

  14. Evolution in action. If Homo Humungous is more competitive for resources he will replace Homo Sap. Now go to an all-you-can-eat restaurant in, say, Louisiana, and observe.

  15. If you really wish to sleep outside ‘Can you brainwash me with food adverts now?’, why not go to the north of Western Australia. I understand the last of the lizard eaters have now come in from the bush, or perhaps I should say spinifex, so you can loll around under the stars.

    If you get some abo woman to show you how to make a cord to tie around your waist, you can use it to hold the lizards you bash on the head. Or perhaps the occasional rabbit.

    I’d learn how to use a firebow though. The abos just move their hands up the stick again to keep twirling it. I doubt if you could manage this if you’re just starting.

  16. “the basic equation of “calories in” – “calories out” = “weight gain/loss” holds true”
    “any “nutritional expert” who argues otherwise is ignoring the laws of thermodynamics”

    Without trying, I remain thin. It’s not just thermodynamics. The body has mechanisms that decide whether to store or excrete excess energy. Those mechanisms may have different set points.

    I eat what I want. Perhaps “what I want” just happens to be the right amount of food. There are clearly mechanisms that affect e.g. hunger. I don’t claim to have lots of willpower. If I felt hungrier I would probably eat more.

    I’m not denying that one can take responsibility for one’s health. But there are more effects on weight than just levels of self-control.

  17. Can you explain dark energy in thermodynamic terms now?

    《the basic equation of “calories in” – “calories out” = “weight gain/loss” holds true.

    Agree, and any “nutritional expert” who argues otherwise is ignoring the laws of thermodynamics.》

    What if we’re lawbreakers? What if the body has different modes so if I’m in shape and out away from social stresses, I just don’t feel as hungry? Are unsatiable wants a byproduct of capitalism; in nature, you are much happier with much less food?

    Also, doesn’t the body process different calories differently, so that calorie equation is way too simplistic?

  18. Time to squeeze out of the closet and announce you are proud to be stout…

    Do we add an ‘S’ (stout) or ‘F’ (fattie) to the LGBTQWERTY rainbow?

  19. Stop making it complicated.

    If you eat very little you *will* get thin. Guaranteed.

    That “very little” differs from person and time to time, doesn’t make it any less true.

    I eat two thirds of what I ate when I was 18 to maintain the same weight So? I just eat two thirds of what I used to.

    It’s not complicated.

  20. “BMI is a stupid measure. Doesnt mean anything.”

    On the contrary, despite all the protestations of people who swear blind that they are 6 feet and 100kg of pure muscle and therefore their 30+BMI is irrelevant, tell me a person’s BMI and I’ll be able to have a pretty good guess as to whether they are a fatty or not. Yes there are outliers, there always are, but for the broad mass of the population BMI pretty much tallies with how fat you are.

    “the basic equation of “calories in” – “calories out” = “weight gain/loss” holds true.”

    Or as my mother says ‘There were no fat people in Belsen’.

  21. What’s my correct weight when I have been shrinking all my adult life? I’m four inches shorter in my 50s than I was at 18, the NHS BMI calaculator tells me I should weigh what I did at 12.

  22. If you are living an outdoor lifestyle, you probably need more calories. You lose more heat in the airflow and you are exercising a lot more climbing those hills to look at Mt Rainier. Also, the winters get really cold in the Cascades so many more calories required to cope with that.

  23. If you are in calorie deficit then you will lose weight. There is no diet that allows you to eat and put on weight if you’re in calorie deficit. Your body will burn muscle if it has to in order to keep running. This is because, as others have stated, thermodynamics is a universal law that applies to human bodies as it does to all other things.

    Therefore, any other reason for the lard arses putting on weight is down to lifestyle choice. Yes, their body might crave calories, which makes it difficult to cut back, but the bottom line is that they are eating too much. Excuses about any external influence (adverts, peer pressure etc) is just restating that it’s down to them and their attitude to eating.

    Angus Barbieri was 207 kg when he stopped eating for 382 days (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast). He didn’t put weight on during that period of fasting – he was 82 kg when he stopped.

    TL;DR – If you are the size of a house, stop eating so much and you won’t be.

  24. I seem to have lost weight in recent months. I’m now about 5 kilos under what I’d like to be.

    Bloke in Spain, if you have an unintentional / unexplained weight loss then it may (not must) be due to an underlying condition. So watch your health like a laid back hawk and get thee to a quack if you have a concern.

  25. Can you entropy THIS now?

    《If you are living an outdoor lifestyle, you probably need more calories. You lose more heat in the airflow and you are exercising a lot more climbing those hills to look at Mt Rainier.》

    So how come when I was just up there for five days, I didn’t feel hungry and felt like I was just eating out of habit?

    《Excuses about any external influence (adverts, peer pressure etc) is just restating that it’s down to them and their attitude to eating.》

    Why is advertising even a business then? Aren’t they trying to get you to buy more and more, like a drug pusher?

    《thermodynamics is a universal law that applies to human bodies as it does to all other things.》

    Why is the universe accelerating its expansion? Why is there no equation of state for water?

  26. Can Lord Kelvin explain this to me now?

    See https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20100204/high-altitudes-may-lead-to-weight-loss#:~:text=Early%20research%20suggests%20that%20simply,explain%20altitude%2Drelated%20weight%20loss.

    《During their alpine week, the men lost an average of 3.5 pounds. Their weight still averaged 2 pounds less than it had at the start of the study a month after their return from the mountain, Lippl says.

    The men did eat less and take in fewer calories during their mountain stay, but calorie restriction alone did not explain the weight loss.》

    At high altitudes, does the same simplistic calorie equation even hold anymore? Can you eat more, but the calories aren’t even absorbed? Haven’t I seen Everest documentaries where this phenomenon is presented as something climbers have to know about or they will starve because their bodies will eat their own muscles instead of processing the food in their stomachs?

  27. @jgh There’s your problem… You’re using the NHS BMI calculator…

    Maybe try a more… reputable.. one that allows for the 10% variation that’s there anyway?

  28. @ Can Lord Kelvin explain this to me now?

    Now find a study where people put on weight without eating more calories than they used.

    Then we can address the fatty issue.

  29. Bloke in Spain, if you have an unintentional / unexplained weight loss then it may (not must) be due to an underlying condition. So watch your health like a laid back hawk and get thee to a quack if you have a concern.
    Not unexplained. I’ve been very busy & it’s very hot here. Some of it will be insufficient fluids.I also don’t have much in the way of hunger/thirst responses. I’m pretty well indifferent. Result of having gone through what I’d recommend for anyone with a weight problem. Didn’t eat or drink much for an extended period. We’re talking weeks here, rather than days. Not voluntarily though. It resets your hunger/thirst perceptions. Gets rid of that “I’ve got to eat something because I’m almost half way through digesting the last lot” thing. And insecurity eating. I have to intentionally remember to eat & drink. I don’t always remember.

  30. A significant increased risk of mortality over the 12 years of follow-up was observed for underweight (BMI <18.5; relative risk (RR) = 1.73, P 35; RR = 1.36, P <0.05). Overweight (BMI 25 to <30) was associated with a significantly decreased risk of death (RR = 0.83, P 0.05). Our results are similar to those from other recent studies, confirming that underweight and obesity class II+ are clear risk factors for mortality, and showing that when compared to the acceptable BMI category, overweight appears to be protective against mortality. Obesity class I was not associated with an increased risk of mortality.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1038/oby.2009.191

  31. Random-effects summary all-cause mortality HRs for overweight (BMI of 25-<30), obesity (BMI of ≥30), grade 1 obesity (BMI of 30-<35), and grades 2 and 3 obesity (BMI of ≥35) were calculated relative to normal weight (BMI of 18.5-<25). The summary HRs were 0.94 (95% CI, 0.91-0.96) for overweight, 1.18 (95% CI, 1.12-1.25) for obesity (all grades combined), 0.95 (95% CI, 0.88-1.01) for grade 1 obesity, and 1.29 (95% CI, 1.18-1.41) for grades 2 and 3 obesity.

    Relative to normal weight, both obesity (all grades) and grades 2 and 3 obesity were associated with significantly higher all-cause mortality. Grade 1 obesity overall was not associated with higher mortality, and overweight was associated with significantly lower all-cause mortality.

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137

  32. We’re currently mid-30s here. Have been for weeks. Equivalent to your “dangerous heat wave”. I’m quite capable of going through the day on ½ litre of liquids. I don’t sweat much. I do pee brown at times. Doesn’t seem to do any harm. The periodic healthcheck bloodwork comes back as someone a couple decades younger. I’ve certainly got more energy than most of them. The human body is very adaptable if you let it. And are the master of it rather than it being the master of you.

  33. @pseudonym rhetorical question:

    Does advertising influence us?

    Well, it annoys me. I suppose that’s an influence.

    What if we’re lawbreakers?

    Participate in scientific studies; if you’re violating the laws of thermodynamics then someone will be getting a Nobel.

    What if the body has different modes so if I’m in shape and out away from social stresses, I just don’t feel as hungry?

    The equation still holds. If you want genuine advice, adapt your lifestyle or learn habits that work for you. It’s not always easy, but nobody will successfully do it for you.

    Also, doesn’t the body process different calories differently, so that calorie equation is way too simplistic?

    The equation still holds. Different processing is either irrelevant (e.g storage and energy systems) or affects a portion of the equation (hyperactivity burns calories, protein+strength training biases weight gain to muscle).

  34. Amen to all of that, JK277. Few people in our society have ever been hungry in their entire lives. They do not even know what the word means. Why I would recommend the starvation route. Gives a benchmark of what hungry actually feels like. And if you can’t hack it, you are weak. You are fat because you want to be fat. So stop making excuses. There are no genetic dispositions to being obese. No one died of obesity in the concentration camps.

  35. @John B:

    What is the ‘correct’ weight a Human should be?

    There isn’t one but there is an incorrect range, much as 100°C is not a planetary temperature compatible with human life. Body fat (or estimates thereof) is generally a better metric than weight though.

    @Rob Fisher:
    Excess energy can be burned (fidgeting, hyperactivity etc) or result in muscle or fat gain. Genetics and lifestyle both play a role in which, but many of the specifics are not adequately proven.

    The best strategy for weight loss (or gain) remains watching the scales and adjusting exercise/food accordingly. The occasional break is also required as the body does adjust its responses (particularly to conserve energy).

    @Jim:
    The biggest problem with BMI is the overweight category at 25+. Obese usually works just fine. There are still better measures though (I like US Navy).

  36. When I’m in town, why do I feel such a strong inhibition to going for a walk during the day when other ppl shame me for my shabby clothes, bad haircut, introverted personality, etc.?
    I’m definitely starting to suspect this geezer’s a Richard Murphy sock-puppet

  37. BiS: Few people in our society have ever been hungry in their entire lives.

    If they went to an English boarding school in the 1960s they know what hunger is! It’s good training and like you, I manage to skip meals without undue worry and also eat little when the weather is hot.

  38. The curve for mortality versus BMI is J-shaped. The overweight outlive everyone else. Even the slightly obese outperform the “normal”. You have to be fantastically obese to do worse than the underweight.

    They’re only observational data of course but they are all we’ll ever get.

  39. Did General Ripper from Dr. Strangelove write this article?

    “Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly.”

  40. BMI stats are only relevant if they are representative of the population across the entire demographic

  41. I doubt it TMB. Maybe you got a bit less than you would have wanted. No doubt in comparison with what you were given at home. That you survived the experience would tend to be proof. Someone suffered real deprivation would have judged you were living in paradise. About half the population born 50 years before you.

  42. …anti-stout hate speech: “Maximum Load 6 persons”

    Comedy gold.

    But regarding the OT: eat less, lose weight. Eat more than you need, add weight. It’s simple enough even for a politician, though doesn’t justify a departmental budget increase, so…
    And journaloids have to fill the space somehow.

  43. I’m on board with the physics, but I was told not so long ago by a rather competent surgeon that in her experience folk who have become too obese really have so far screwed up their feedback systems that you do literally have to starve them – not just “reduce input” – to get an effect.

    People aren’t into being starved. So the profitable knife comes out.

    Of course, if the clients don’t then change habits, then the stupidity starts anew…

  44. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    But how is that possible BiTiN?

    If the amount of calories a person’s body needs for static maintenance is X, expends on energy is y, and shits out unconverted is z, then if total inputs of energy is less than X+y+z then something has to give, due to the laws of thermodynamics. That is usually where weight loss occurs as this deficit is made up from stored fat.

    Now, it may be difficult mentally for clinically obese people to stick to that, but the underlying physics can’t change just because of a change in body chemistry.

  45. Without trying, I remain thin. It’s not just thermodynamics. The body has mechanisms that decide whether to store or excrete excess energy. Those mechanisms may have different set points.

    Yup, the problem is that for too many people that “fat storage switch” is set to permanently on mainly by foods that our bodies, still designed for stone age hunter/gatherer lifestyles don’t adjust well to (mainly carbohydrates and seed oils).

    Dump the carbohydrates and seed oils, stick to a diet that our ancient ancestors would have recognised (meat and two veg is fine) and the weight will fall off, especially if you do something as lightweight as an evening walk.

    Unfortunately, this level of discipline is beyond most of the entitled children in adult bodies you see wandering around like blimps, so they will remain fat and unhappy.

  46. Can you strawman me now?

    《Participate in scientific studies; if you’re violating the laws of thermodynamics then someone will be getting a Nobel.》

    Didn’t the dark energy astronomers already do this?

    @bis Does Murphy support a money-printed, inflation-proofed, universal basic income and lowering taxes?

    Does Murphy support deregulating finance, because getting more ppl to spend their time fiddling with virtual assets is better than having them do actual real harm in the physical world?

  47. @BiTiN

    …you do literally have to starve them – not just “reduce input” – to get an effect.

    If someone is obese and sedentary, the calorie deficit for serious weight loss is not much different from starvation anyway – particularly compared to what they’re used to.

    @Harry Haddock’s Ghost:
    In BiTiN’s examples it’s probably behavioural (dietary noncompliance); however, other things can give.

    Calories in-out does hold, the body is remarkably adaptive and can reduce calorie consumption (slow metabolism, skimp on maintenance activity, fatigue etc). It’s more of an issue at lower body fat levels, but any extended diet can cause it.

    Simple to deal with though – a week or two at caloric balance is usually sufficient to recover.

  48. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    @John Galt – the paleo diet theory has been pretty comprehensively debunked; both from a historical perspective (they didn’t eat what the theory suggests) and from a point of dietetics.

  49. Bloke in North Dorset

    I’ve also had that wonderful experience of being told to lose weight (BMI 26 at the time) by a nurse whose waist circumference was probably > her height.

    One problem is that I don’t think people who lead a sedentary life realise how few calories they are burning and how many are in the meals they are eating. I wonder how many people got a bit of a shock when they went to a restaurant and saw how many calories were in the favourite meal.

    I also think people over estimate how many calories they are burning when the do a bit of exercise. For example my Apple watch told me that my 3 mile walk at sub 15min pace this morning burned 350cals and 43 minutes on my cross-trainer that left me sweating and breathless was 360 cals. Yesterday’s 4.5m walk that included 2 tough hills was 450 calories.

    According to this site a chocolate chip muffin is 364 calories.

    Obviously all numbers are indicative.

  50. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    Indeed – my sports watch, and also app + chest strap, cadence meter, etc regularly claim that I have burnt nearly 2000 calories on an 85 mile ride* but there is no way on earth I have. I usually work on the basis of a 0.3 – 0.4 X what they say as a rule of thumb.

    * When I was riding regularly. Which I’m not at the moment. Thus I’ve put weight on. It’s not rocket science!

  51. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    Oh my god. Like a dickhead I have actually read the article. It ends with quotes from Tam fucking Fry for goodness sake. Never, in the field of human dietetics has anyone been so wrong about everything always.

    The guy is the Richard Murphy of nutrition ( although more successful at grifting)

    You know he still insists, with a straight face, that salt isn’t needed *at fucking all* by the human body? Not that we eat too much, but that it plays *no fucking purpose* at all in the body?

    Unbelievable.

  52. @John Galt – the paleo diet theory has been pretty comprehensively debunked; both from a historical perspective (they didn’t eat what the theory suggests) and from a point of dietetics.

    Never mentioned “Paleo” whatever the fuck that is, so don’t give a fuck about whether it is debunked or not. I’m talking about the biological mechanism behind ketosis, which you can measure with a very simple blood test or urine analysis.

    Want to know whether fat burning is turned off or on? (Hint: It’s usually on), then do a ketosis test. Once ketosis is running your body burns fat whether you need it or not, simply to provide an alternate source of energy for the brain during what the body perceives as a famine.

    I’ve been in ketosis since I caught COVID-19 last week and combination lack of appetite and nausea caused me to stop eating for a week. Currently losing about 0.75 KG per day between going to bed and getting up because of ketosis.

  53. Few people in our society have ever been hungry in their entire lives. They do not even know what the word means. Why I would recommend the starvation route. Gives a benchmark of what hungry actually feels like.

    When I was at uni, I did a little experiment.
    Armed with the knowledge that the human body can survive for three weeks without food (average), I decided to try and see what it would be like to not eat for a couple of days. So at the weekends, I wouldn’t eat. From Friday evening to Monday morning.
    The first time was a bit of a challenge. By the fourth time, it was relatively straightforward.

    It’s interesting to see people’s reactions when I tell them about this. A lot of people are horrified at the thought.
    But the human body is incredibly adaptable. Far more so than most realise and more than the vast majority of animals.

  54. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    I’ve been in ketosis since I caught COVID-19 last week and combination lack of appetite and nausea caused me to stop eating for a week. Currently losing about 0.75 KG per day between going to bed and getting up because of ketosis.

    You have stopped eating for a week and put the corresponding weight loss down to “ketosis”?

    Ok.

  55. @ bis
    Your ignorance is showing: I didn’t realise how soft Grammar School boys were until I shared a “pair of rooms” while taking Cambridge Entrance/Scholarship (I didn’t get a scholarship because the Physics paper wanted me to draw a graph and I can’t draw). Inter alia, he found it too cold.

    Most boarding schools had a “tuck shop” for those who felt they were starving *after* lunch and mine weighed boys at the beginning and end of each term, with nominal checks for those who had, while growing, lost more than half-a-stone in thirteen weeks – most of us regulars just got nodded through each time.

    I have certainly been hungry – albeit the first wholly involuntary occasion was from when I broke a front tooth until the dentist removed the loose bit a few days later, not due to poverty, but my school experience means that whenever I get food poisoning I can just totally starve myself for 24-36 hours until my gut gets things under control. My wife (Grammar School and Cambridge) still finds that uncomfortable to observe. When I lost 15lbs in a fortnight (9lbs the first week) I wasn’t as hungry as I was at school (that did include some exercise).

  56. You have stopped eating for a week and put the corresponding weight loss down to “ketosis”?

    Don’t be a fucking twat. I measured ketosis using keto strips. Then again, I actually take the time to understand how that sort of thing works rather than just taking whatever clueless bullshit you read in the Daily Mail.

  57. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    I beg to differ.

    Shall we discuss the many studies into Keto whose conclusions disagree with your(sample size =1) findings, or just ignore the mohassive elephant in the room and trade insults?

  58. Why is advertising even a business then?

    It’s generally accepted that most advertising does not work.

    When it does, it changes brands, not behaviour. So the fatty buys *your* chocolate bar, which increases your market share.

    Me, I’m not overly fond of chocolate, so all that advertising is totally wasted. I’m not going to start liking chocolate because of advertising.

  59. Last week a charming young doctor told me “You are rather heavy but you have the frame to carry it.” Bless her cotton socks.

    The previous comment I’d had in that vein was decades before when trotting off a rugby pitch in Glasgow. A spectator approached: “You are the biggest fucking scrum half I’ve ever seen.”

  60. John Galt has it right.

    The simple calories-in/out argument tacitly assumes that the calories you eat are then available as energy, but on today’s high carb diet that’s not the case since it stimulates insulin – the fat-storage hormone – with the result that a significant proportion of the calories are instead stored as fat and – just as important – your existing body fat remains locked away, even in the face of exercise. Hence people (need to) eat more because they are getting fat; rather than getting fat because they are eating more.

    Instead, go Keto. Now, all the calories you eat are used as energy, and your existing body-fat is mobilised. The result is you find yourself eating fewer calories whilst still feeling full.

    So, yes, on the face of it you can say that someone lost weight because they ate less, but that’s precisely the point: It’s the diet that allows you to comfortably eat less. On Keto you can comfortably run a calorie deficit, since your fat tummy is now providing some of the fuel.

    Certainly you can remain thin on a high-carb diet by starving yourself, but that’s no way to live. Why do that when you can eat steak fried in ghee every day; eat cheese and double-cream and so forth? Plus you get all the health benefits of avoiding insulin resistance and heart disease.

  61. @ bis
    Your ignorance is showing:

    My experience of public school boys is a bunch of pansies lost without someone telling them what to do.

  62. “Unconscious weight bias”

    I see that pathologising the quite normal and healthy act of associating excess fat with unhealthy lifestyles hasn’t escaped leftoids.

  63. Bloke in North Dorset

    Harry Haddock’s Ghost

    Indeed – my sports watch, and also app + chest strap, cadence meter, etc regularly claim that I have burnt nearly 2000 calories on an 85 mile ride* but there is no way on earth I have. I usually work on the basis of a 0.3 – 0.4 X what they say as a rule of thumb.

    * When I was riding regularly. Which I’m not at the moment. Thus I’ve put weight on. It’s not rocket science!

    The numbers I gave were what Apple call Active Minutes. Comparing them to my Fitbit Charge 2 and chest strap with other apps Apple seems to think I burn about 150 cals/hr based on my age, height, weight and average resting heart rate. So yes, your active calls for your back ride would be a lot lower than 2000.

    This article reckons the Apple watch is fairly accurate at tracking calories if set up correctly.

    https://www.iphonelife.com/content/how-accurate-are-apple-watch-calories-how-to-ensure-theyre-accurate#How%20Accurate

  64. @Jim – “as my mother says ‘There were no fat people in Belsen’.”

    There were no healthy people there either. From https://www.holocaust.org.uk/bergen-belsen-concentration-camp “Of the 60,000 people alive when the British liberated the camp, 28,000 people died within two weeks, as their conditions had deteriorated too much for medical aid to save them.”. So not suitable as support for any argument other than extreme starvation is very bad for you.

    And as for the “calories in – calories out = weight change”, in one sense it’s obviously true, but it is used very simplistically. A major component of calories out is your faeces, which can contain so much that you could dry it and burn it. Animal dung is a traditional source of fuel, so obvioulsy lots of calories are coming out that way.

    What is far more important is the components of your diet and the efficiency of your gut at extracting the energy. Fat is more energy-dense than carbohydrates, but a high-fat, low-carb diet will make you lose weight. Even with the same diet, different people react differently. This may involve the gut bacteria as well as the person, so may even vary over your lifetime.

    And even if you hit upon a simple way to guarantee weight loss (I’d suggest amputating a leg – it’s a lot faster than these treatments that take months), there’s no guarantee that the correlation between weight and health is causative – a fat person made thin by starvation is not the same as a naturally thin person.

    As with any thing in biology, it’s very complex.

  65. @ bis
    That may explain your ignorance. Did your sample size run well into four figures? My sample of Public Schoolboys did; Grammar Schoolboys: I cannot remember but I’m pretty sure it reached a thousand.

  66. Dunno john77. I can tell you the sample size has been far too many.

    And I’d like to point out, along with the Oxbridge graduates, these are also the people who have presided over the decline of a once Great Power into a third rate shithole. Of course, many contrived to be both.

  67. “Market efficiency” is simply that markets are efficient at processing information. That’s it. It is not that markets are the efficient way to do everything etc.

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