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Amazingly, they’re not getting it, are they?

So how do we tackle high energy prices? By rapidly expanding investments in renewable energy. With prices falling sharply over the past decade, renewables are now nine times cheaper than gas. It is only by engaging in colossal efforts to build up wind and solar capacity that we can meaningfully address the dual crisis of energy and climate.

But we will still need gas. Because the wind does not always blow, nor the Sun shine. Therefore we still need dispatchable power in that system – which currently means gas.

61 thoughts on “Amazingly, they’re not getting it, are they?”

  1. Well I’d disagree Tim

    They get it – they’re environmentalist left wingers who want to impoverish and indeed slaughter millions of people who they disagree with. So they get it. Ideally they’d be genuinely ‘getting it’ in the form
    Of a capital sentence courtesy of a multi person gallows for pushing the entire ‘Net Zero’ scam.

  2. It’s also such a bad argument:

    …rapidly expanding investments in renewable energy. … renewables are now nine times cheaper than gas …

    Sounds like you have a great investment opportunity. Solve energy shortages, cost of living crisis, and emissions – all while getting rich. What are you waiting for?

  3. Because the price of gas is now nine times higher than it was before Boris et al. declared economic war on Russia.

  4. In the short term gas is vital but in the long term energy storage technologies (“batteries” is the most general sense) will become cheap enough to provide dispatchable power. The big question is when the divide between short and long term will happen, and until it does fracking and/or enhanced recovery techniques in the North Sea would reduce our dependence on potentially problematical external sources of gas.

  5. It’s only cheaper if they’re not required to quote prices for continuous generating capacity. Which should be a requirement for any intermittent source of energy. Part of the quote should be for the storage to ensure a level of continuous generation.

    Level playing fields and all that…

  6. With prices falling sharply over the past decade, renewables are now nine times cheaper than gas. It is only by engaging in colossal efforts to build up wind and solar capacity…

    If it’s such a great investment, why aren’t you putting all your available capital into building windmills?

    As with all pushers of net zero bullshit, the initial response should be: “You first. Show us all how it’s done. Live with no fossil fuels, no plastics, emit no CO2 – first or second hand. When you have demonstrated the benefits over at least several years, we’ll be able to follow your lead.”

  7. BiW eloquently states the You First doctrine. Which should be applied to all who want to impose change. Oh, and You First without subsidy, of course.

  8. @AtC
    “but in the long term energy storage technologies”

    Sorry, but there is no known technology for grid scale storage.
    Not a matter of ‘improving the process’ or ‘Moore’s law’, it is that there is no known science to do this.

    New physics required.

    A back of the envelope calculation shows that pumped-storage systems, such as that new one that opened in Scotalnd: we’d need 100,000 just to provide storage for the existing grid. If you want to decarbonise the gas network (5x the National Grid) and decarbonise transport (another 5x) you need a million pumped storage systems.
    Where to put them?

    Or you could use batteries. If you use the market leading technology, the number of Tesla car batteries you need (aka 1 tonne incendiary bombs) is in the billions.

    And neither the £trillions to pay for them, nor the hundreds of millions of tonnes of precious raw materials exist. And can you imagine how many trees would have to die to write the environmental impact statement for all the new mines to dig up those metals? And from where will all the child labour for the Congo cobalt come from?

    And there’s Ambrose-Evans Prickhead’s compressed air storage. He now owns three original London Bridges.

    Sorry again, but storage is at best a pipedream, and like all such flight of fancy, it meets the concrete pavement of reality.

    When greenshirts say ‘…with storage’ what they mean is ‘freeze, peasant!’

    Need a new physics.

  9. Arthur the Cat:

    I see you’re being deliberately vague about the storage technologies you promise, but you’re going to have to get specific. Because ‘storage’ in the way you’re using the term is just an excuse to not solve the problem, and to convince everyone else to not solve the problem.

    Without enormous storage capacity, wind’n’solar are useless. Our murderous Green enemies are trying their hardest to convince us that storage is just around the corner, a minor technical issue that’ll be ironed out any day now. It isn’t. Nobody knows how to make it work. We don’t have enough valleys to flood for hydro. We don’t have enough materials for secondary batteries and they don’t last enough cycles.

    So come on, what form does this storage take? How much of what materials are needed to power the entire country for a few days (or for seasonal generators like solar, a few months)? How much land does it occupy?

    (Personally, I could be convinced by stored energy in the form of massive tanks of diesel, or at a pinch methane. Right now, synthesizing it is inefficient enough to make it embarrassingly clear that even wind power ain’t free.)

  10. Renewables being nine times cheaper than gas just means they will make nine times more profit*, as they’ll charge the same (with a slight discount) as gas.

    Buyer: Oooo, I’ll have some of that nice 5p wind please
    Wind: Gas is 50p, I want 45p please. Watchagonna do? Go and pay 50p for gas?

    *Yeah, numbers.

  11. Nothing wrong with espousing future technology. Plenty wrong with doing things today which rely on a tech you haven’t got turning up when required.

    And as for subsidising inefficient power sources in the hope that they won’t need subsidising one day soon? Well, let’s not do anything until that day.

  12. Sandy Hager is a Senior Lecturer in International Political Economy at City, University of London

    Political economy is just like the real economy, only with lots of sweet, beautiful lies.

    What we really need is a public energy firm that directly produces and generates cheap, abundant renewable energy

    And a pony.

    The problem with this one is not the amount being spent, but where it is being targeted and how it will be financed.

    See what happens when we decide to take a short walk along the road to serfdom? It’s never enough.

    The concern here is that the companies that dominate the sector don’t need this support, nor do they deserve it.

    The people who can supply us with energy don’t need to be paid the market value of their products, we should subside people who can’t supply us with energy instead.

    Anyway, quick suggestion for Trussy (I know she reads this blog and used to comment as ‘Mr Ecks’):

    Make sure all energy bills come with an itemised list, in big bold letters, showing the exact value of the government’s contribution to paying the bill.

    Call it the Emergency British Energy Relief or something, and make them stick a little Union Jack logo on the bills for extra visibility / to own the libs. She needs to make it extremely clear to every single bill payer exactly how much they’re benefiting in subsidies, and that it’s a temporary subsidy plan. People need to understand what this means for them personally.

  13. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” Upton Sinclair.

    As I have mentioned before, a Sunday afternoon in June :
    Demand 30GW.
    11,100 wind turbines (25GW ‘nameplate capacity’) = 5GW actual input into the grid, so another 66,000 turbines needed to supply demand. Of a Sunday afternoon in June…..*

    Plus of course, 30GW of something else to provide the supply when the wind isn’t blowing at all.

    And if demand IS being met by the 77,000 wind turbines there won’t be any supply left to charge up the non existent (and not in our lifetimes going to be) ‘storage’.

    *Average peak demand circa 40GW.

  14. For storage on the scale required, it’s not future technology but as yet unknown science (who knows what that might be?) that is required

    Science, technology and engineering are obviously related but they are NOT the same thing.

    This distinction is largely moot however as politics – or more correctly ideology – seems to be the driver of pretty well everything these days.

    Descriptions of surreal schemes for storage (aka grifts) to make unusables usable are ten a penny really, but all seem positively spock like logically compared to the pseudo science of gender etc.

    When light do go out, it will all be a conspiracy – big oil, big dick, big-gles……..is to blame

    Ideologues are hardwired not to admit that they could be wrong. It’s the most fundamental rule of the universe.

  15. “in the long term energy storage technologies (“batteries” is the most general sense) will become cheap enough”

    Will it be like fusion, oh wise one, always just forty years away?

  16. It’s even worse.
    Suppose there are enough windmills to supply 100% on a good day. We’ll still need 100% capacity for the days of 0% supply.
    So you have doubled the capital cost.
    Suppose the wind provides power for 80% of the time. Your gas generator is only used 20% of the time. So to cover fixed costs (plant and labour) the sale price would be five times what it otherwise should be. (I’m ignoring the cost of gas here, but still.) In fact, a gas generator would take a leaf out of the green manual and gouge the customers. “What are you going to do? Blow on your fingers?”
    And who will pay for this? Us peasants, of course.

  17. Southerner: “Because the price of gas is now nine times higher than it was before Boris et al. declared economic war on Russia.”

    This is more than usually idiotic. Do you think Putin couldn’t and wouldn’t turn off his pipelines for whatever reason or non-reason the genocidal maniac felt like on an any particular day? Do you think that every country should just support his every move to keep their gas prices low? Are you that stupid or that malign?

  18. Snag – Do you think Putin couldn’t and wouldn’t turn off his pipelines for whatever reason or non-reason the genocidal maniac

    Reeeeeeee! Genocide! Slavic Man Bad!

    Dm – Will it be like fusion, oh wise one, always just forty years away?

    The press has been very bullish about nuclear fusion recently. I don’t know why, ITER uses 10,000 tonnes of magnets and so forth. That’s a hell of a thing to scale down to commercially viable designs. But maybe we’ll get Mr Fusion yet. Paradigm shifting inflection points do happen from time to time.

  19. Grid scale storage is possible. We “can” do it with gas. As I’ve said before the way to solve the decarbonization problem is to put massive solar plants in the best global locations (i.e. not the UK as we want them to work in winter) and use the electricity generated to split hydrogen out of water, then react it with CO2 extracted from sea water to make carbon neutral methane. This is then shipped, stored and used around the globe just as we currently do with fossil fuel natural gas (aka methane). We should only bother with UK based wind turbines or solar where it makes economic sense. This should include paying for the necessary gas fired power stations standing idle ready to supply electricity on the days/weeks when the sun is weak and the wind doesn’t blow.

  20. The only way we could even attempt to do this is with nukes. The energy density of uranium and the reliability of nukes’d provide us with our electricity.

    And the nukes could provide the hydrogen and extract the CO2 from the air or ocean surface. Hitler’s nice simple synfuel production system could then turn it into petrochemical coke, petrol, diesel, jet fuel and unnatural gas.

    One weakness is CO2 extraction from the environment has not yet been conducted on the necessary scale. But we’ve been making concrete for a couple of millennia so it shouldn’t be too difficult.

    Another problem is the expense. But it’d be cheaper than renewables, and would actually work.

    The third problem is that the Greens’d hate it. And of course if we adopted a final solution to the Green problem, there’d be no need to stop using fossil fuels.

  21. @AndyF
    That would be the ideal long term solution.
    But.
    You need parts of the world that get a lot of uninterrupted sunshine & aren’t being used for anything else of value at the moments. So where? Western Sahara? The Middle-East deserts? Problem being, useless parts of the world tend to be administered by useless people. Do you want to erect billions of dollars worth of plant in a place run by goat-fuckers?

  22. The obvious place to put all these solar panels and windmills is somewhere with lots of useless arctic land….like Northern Russia perhaps.

    Oh.

    Read again the bit about security of supply.

  23. “So where? Western Sahara? The Middle-East deserts? Problem being, useless parts of the world tend to be administered by useless people. Do you want to erect billions of dollars worth of plant in a place run by goat-fuckers?”

    Who are likely to suddenly rise up and seize said sources of power using the usual Toyota Hilux army of AK47 toting rag heads, and suddenly we are in their grasp again. Unless of course the proponents of such scheme envisage a Roman Empire Mk 2 and plan to invade these countries and seize their natural resources, and maintain garrisons there to protect them?

  24. I’m amused by the way some people are so keen on riding their hobby horses that they’ve instantly dismissed me as a impractical hair shirt green determined to spoil their fun. I know a few HSGs and find them at best deluded. Oh, and I was a physicist in my early career so you don’t have to tell me about physics. Personally I’d like to see a lot more nukes, provided they’re not the virtually unbuildable, overcomplex 3rd generation messes like Sizewell C. Mostly passively safe SMRs, with a few trial 4th gen epithermal reactors to see if they actually work. If they do all the nuclear “waste” that the HSGs fuss about instantly becomes cheap, usable fuel for the next few centuries.

    As for not saying what storage technologies will be useful, do you expect me to predict the next winning lottery numbers as well? As Tim has frequently pointed out, you can’t pick winning technologies, you just have to let the market work it out, which it will do if there are sufficient incentives and bureaucracy doesn’t get in the way. There are plenty of interesting possibilities in the labs right now, but I’m not stupid enough to say which will work and which won’t. I do occasionally invest a few k in interesting startups though, when they’ve got to the engineering stage.

    Finally, don’t make the mistake of thinking grid scale storage has to be able to supply all the grid for all the time, it only needs to cover some temporary deficiencies, much like a battery light in your house is only needed when the power’s off at night, not 7×24. Most grid problems are to do with frequency and voltage maintenance, not overall power, and Tesla’s NSW battery has shown such grid services are not only well within existing battery technology’s capabilities, but they’re much cheaper than old peaking plant.

  25. Bloke in North Dorset

    Need a new physics.

    We’ve already got new maths, so it should be doable.

    With prices falling sharply over the past decade, renewables are now nine times cheaper than gas.

    When I multiply something by 9 the answer is always bigger than the number I started with, nine times bigger to be exact.

  26. Their view is that if wind or solar can’t supply power, then do without. The refusal to comply is going to be of continued frustration to them.

  27. Reeeeeeee! Genocide! Slavic Man Bad!

    Way to avoid the argument and make yourself look an asshat at the same time.

    Not that Snag didn’t invite the vomit with needless drama, but “Slavic man” really is bad. As you’ve said yourself, he’s a gangster, and you shouldn’t make yourself dependent on Bricktop.

  28. “So come on, what form does this storage take? How much of what materials are needed to power the entire country for a few days (or for seasonal generators like solar, a few months)? How much land does it occupy?”

    The last question I can answer, as literally this morning I had a meeting with a bunch of chaps who seem to think my farm is a good location for a battery storage site, and want me to sign up with them to develop such. And their proposal is for up to 100MW storage capacity on approx 10 acres of land. So roughly speaking 10MW per acre. However this land has to be close to a National Grid sub-station, so the power can be fed in and out efficiently. So that reduces the amount of suitable locations quite a lot. Its no good sticking them in rural Wales for example.

    Now 100MW sounds like a lot but as far as I’m aware these batteries can only supply that amount for a few hours tops. So to supply 100MW for 24 hours you’d need at least 1.2GW of headline capacity. So given demand is currently 34GW you’d need about 300GW of battery storage capacity, just to provide 75% of demand for electric for 24 hours for the country, when the wind doesn’t blow.

    Now 300GW of capacity is 300,000MW, so in land terms you need 30,000 acres of land. Per days supply. The March 2021 windless spell lasted 11 days, so say a fortnight to be on the safe side, so thats 420,000 acres covered with batteries. All of which needs to be near the NG.

    So there’s about 8500km of NG wires and cables. If one were able to create connection nodes every 10km or so (I have no idea if this is feasible) and have batteries with 1km of each node that would be 850 nodes, with approx 3sq km of land within a km of a node, thats about 2500 sq km of land. 250 acres to the sq km, so thats 625k acres of land. Given not all land near the NG would be free anyway, its highly likely that you’d have to cover every single acre near the nodes with batteries, to power current demand in the renewable power generation lulls.

    And thats just to supply 75% of current demand! What would demand be when all domestic demand is electric, plus all personal and public transport demand as well? You’d probably have to cover maybe 1m+ acres of land in batteries. And at what cost? And safety?

  29. @Arthur, others

    There are two energy usage patterns in the world: (1) peak usage in summer due to air conditioning, (2) peak usage in winter die to heating.

    For type 1 the solution exists, solar plus battery storage for the day/night cycle. More energy is generated in summer when there is peak demand and less in winter when there is less demand. As lithium-iron phosphate [LFP] battery production scales up, this is ideal for stationary storage because it is cheaper than Li-MNC and offers a higher depth of discharge for a given lifespan. The challenges are all in manufacturing and deploying enough rather than in how to make it work. Tesla in Australia (I thought it was Victoria rather than NSW, but ~shrug~) demonstrates that the principle is sound.

    For type 2 it’s very different. First of all there is a mismatch between peak supply and peak demand, and secondly these regions tend to have a more severe winter/summer disparity (i.e. they’re colder because they’re further from the equator). So there is a seasonal summer/winter cycle to consider in addition to the day/night cycle. The three issues here are that: one charge/discharge cycle per year means that each charge/discharge cycle has to have low capex (batteries are too expensive); there have to be really low losses per unit time (batteries and rotational storage are out), and it has to have truly vast capacity. Realistically the only solution is creating a fuel that is liquid or a gas that can be liquefied at sane temperatures/pressures; methanol is probably the least ridiculous. The trouble is that the efficiency creating these fuels from electricity and converting them back again is… not very good.

    For the best results, all available solar panels and the vast majority of batteries should end up in type 1 regions, while type 2 regions use a nuclear baseload with additional CCGT in the winter running either 24×7 or one cycle per day as required, plus (relatively) modest battery storage to eliminate the need for peakers.

  30. @AtC
    I’d agree with you re. nukes, and selection thereof. Not this hugely expensive EU/French fiasco, of which they have built/building 4. Only one started so far, and that’s already been shut down with radiation leaks.
    I’d go for a dozen or two of the South Korean designs, fill in with Rolls Royce SMR, and over a decade timescale try to develop molten salt (thorium) reactors, so the high level waste can be burnt as fuel, solving the waste issue too.

    But none of that is ‘storage’ the topic of your post, and which is essential to any non-dispatchable power source, such as the wind or solar. And polar highs resulting in maximum heating demand and no wind for 2 weeks are a once a year or once every 2 year occurrence. So 2 weeks backup supply of the unreliables is needed as minimum. Unless you have 100% supply from dispatchable power AS WELL.
    Just pay for and build all those dispatable power stations, pay to keep them idle, and hope they work when you need them (flat spare-tyre syndrome).

    As a physicist, you should be able to assess the scale of energy storge per candidate technology. Care to mention any of these ‘lab’ possibilities you mentions, coming Real Soon Now? (Like fusion is only a decade away :))
    How many are real, and how many are funding scams?

    The only known storage of any scale is hydrocarbon. To be a ‘battery’ rather than just a mined feedstock cache, it must be manufactured synthetically. Making methane and/or petrol synthetically is old technology, from coal.
    Extracting CO2 from atmosphere, or seawater, (instead of using coal) is another hand-waving “baksheesh!!” technology. Just fund me and I’ll research it, once the lab is fully equipped with pool, spa and ‘lab assistants’.

    So the options to the politicians in charge are:
    1. Full dispatchable power, which means oil, coal, gas and fission.
    2. Full dispatchable power, which means oil, coal, gas and fission, which you keep idle, and also build millions of windmills, and the cables to wire up the North Sea and the Outer Hebrides (not enough room on land).
    3. Build a million windmills, and when there’s a long calm spell, hope your praetorian guard stay loyal while you fly in your (electric?) helicopter from the downing street roof, ahead of the pitchfork and lamp-post mob. The Sri-Lankan end game. Make sure there’s enough seats for the prateorian guard (and their families) or they’ll throw you out.
    4. There is no option 4.
    5. Lie, and hope it all goes away for long enough to get rich and die of natural causes. Paint it pink: Somebody Else’s Problem.

    Of course, the free market could solve this problem. Let distributors buy’ unreliable non-dispatchable power at the price its worth, if someone else has to pay for the real power station. Hence load the cost of the backup/storage into the windmill owners, and watch them squirm.

  31. Way to avoid the argument and make yourself look an asshat at the same time.

    Oh no. I hope I don’t look like a heckin’ asshat. What will the folx on Reddit say?

    Not that Snag didn’t invite the vomit with needless drama,

    Crying about imaginary genocide isn’t drama, eh? Allah forbid I should “vomit” mockery on a snide anklebiter whose screen name rhymes with “fag”. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    but “Slavic man” really is bad.

    So are all of our dearest allies, except maybe Portugal.

    As you’ve said yourself, he’s a gangster, and you shouldn’t make yourself dependent on Bricktop.

    We shouldn’t have done lots of stupid things, yet here we are.

  32. Jim: Batteries (or any storage) needs quotes in both max power, i.e. MW, and also energy, which is in MWh. Otherwise it’s useless.

    The “100MW” quoted is for how long?

    Tesla Powerwall 2 (reading from the data sheet here, so likely worse in practice) has 13.5kWh energy capacity with a max continuous discharge power of 5kW (7kW for a 10s peak). That’s for 114kg of battery. With no air space it takes up roughly 1/8 cubic meter. Retail price $5550 US (quantity 1).

    So 200 of these for each MW of (continuous) power. Note that it will only supply that power for less than 3 hours.

    No idea about max charge/discharge cycles or other maintenance.

  33. So are all of our dearest allies, except maybe Portugal.

    Stevie boi may think Norway is as dangerous as Russia, but then Stevie boi is a fuckin idjit.

    . . . rhymes with “fag”. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    By strange coincidence, I’ve been considering the possibility that your whole submissive attitude to this, and the cosmos in general, is repressed gaydom.

  34. PJF – idk enough about Norway to be have properly informed xenophobia against them, but I assume they’re some sort of depressed, alcoholic penguin fondlers or something.

    Otoh our allies who actually matter – the US of States, France, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc. – are no less murdery than the Bloody Russians and in some cases more so. What David Cameron did to Libya was worse than anything the Bloody Russians have done in Ukraine so far. (I honestly dunno why more people aren’t angry about the unprovoked destruction of Libya, but as a society we have some amazingly yuge blind spots.)

    Obviously we have no problem being best pals with people who chop up journalists (based) or shoot unarmed protesters in the face and then jail the rest for a year without charge (cringe), and we’re definitely not averse to bombing the shit out of foreign countries on the flimsiest of pretexts. Our opposition to the Russki government, therefore, has nothing to do with *morality*. Ipso facto, QED, et cetera.

    By strange coincidence, I’ve been considering the possibility that your whole submissive attitude to this, and the cosmos in general, is repressed gaydom.

    If I was a bummer, I’d be the greatest bummer in the world. Like a priapic Freddie Mercury with dynamite on a laser beam, on acid, and also . My moustache would be legendary, as would my soft furnishings. No Jedward would be safe.

    I’m impressed with your logical deduction and the new understanding it has imparted on me that arachnophobes secretly want to fuck spiders.

  35. Otoh our allies who actually matter . . .

    We’re in a direct energy trading relationship with Norway, that’s why it was mentioned. They matter, and they’re not gangsters looking to fuck us over.

    I can’t be arsed to address the repeated whining about how bad we are. Can you self-flagellate, or something?

    . . . the new understanding it has imparted on me that arachnophobes secretly want to fuck spiders.

    The correct analogy would be arachnophiles secretly wanting to be bummed by spiders.

  36. PJF – We’re in a direct energy trading relationship with Norway, that’s why it was mentioned. They matter, and they’re not gangsters looking to fuck us over.

    I see, so we should only have friendly relations with mild mannered Scandinavian countries. Great plan, genius.

    I can’t be arsed to address the repeated whining about how bad we are.

    Because you can’t.

    The correct analogy would be arachnophiles secretly wanting to be bummed by spiders.

    Does your Mum know you’re writing this sort of gay arachnid erotica on the internet? Shame on you, PJF.

  37. Gay jokes, “your mum” jokes, it’s almost as though he knows that he has no recourse to coherent argument and logic.

    Just a rancid bigot who sucks up to Putin because he’s white.

  38. “Slavic Man Bad!”
    ______
    So that’s the latest Moscow line – that criticism of Putin is slavophobic racism.
    And this, remember, from a poster who assured us in the run-up to 24 February that Ukraine is “a retarded nation of potato farmers”.

  39. “Just a rancid bigot who sucks up to Putin because he’s white.”

    As opposed to our Lords and Masters who suck up to the Rag Heads because they aren’t white…………if Putin was black, or at least off-white, then the West would leave him alone entirely, they’d be afraid of being accused of being racist if they opposed him. After all they don’t seem to mind the Arabs bombing their neighbours back to the stone age, nor the Chinese Communists operating a complete concentration camp system within their country, both of whom are just as morally bankrupt as Putin is, but strangely morality goes out of the window when dealing with them………Arab oil is no less morally tainted than Uncle Vlad’s is, but we send our envoys to the former asking them to pump more, while eschewing the latter. Some ‘ethical foreign policy’ that is………

  40. ‘if Putin was black, or at least off-white, then the West would leave him alone entirely’

    So glaringly and obviously true Jim!!!! One may note the loud hurrahs at the fact that there are NO white men in Truss’s cabinet. If we were cheering that there were no black women, the screams about racism and sexism would deafen us all.

  41. Because you can’t.

    No, because we’ve been over it all before ad nauseum. You just walk away and then bring the same crap up two days later. Plus, it’s irrelevant. You don’t give a shit about stiffing the Ukrainians so long as your bins get emptied, so your whining about how terrible we are to others gets dismissed as selective bullshit.

  42. . . . if Putin was black, or at least off-white, then the West would leave him alone entirely . . .

    Jim, I think you must have missed Steve’s whining above about our actions in Libya, and elsewhere about Iraq. And there’s the left’s general bitching about all our “racist” wars – looks like you missed that too.
    Just face it, your statement is wank.

  43. “There are no white men in The Great Offices Of State.”

    And if Boganboy had said that I would’ve agreed with him. But he didn’t.

  44. They, the eco-loons & eco-terrorists, do “get it”

    However they don’t care. For them facts irrelevant, ideology rules

    See Coral, or more recent Pakistan:

    MSM Lie to world one third of mountaneous & desert Pakistan submerged under water

    True figure is ~8% with some flooding, not submerged, and happens year after year and ‘poor’ nuclear armed Pakistan does nothing other than demand more foreign aid. Should be told to Sod off

  45. I can’t be arsed to address the repeated whining about how bad we are

    Because you can’t and never do. Propoganda not facts

  46. Still nothing to offer; still whining and bitching.

    Here’s a fact. The Ukrainians just had a massive, game-changing victory over the Russians.

    Strangely, the topic of Ukraine was absent from the comments today. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  47. Bitching? Whining?

    Ah, projection

    Ukraine not mentioned as O/T

    However as you raise it:
    Massive? A ~2% gain of what they lost isn’t massive and targetting civilians with illegal butteryfly mines a war crime

    Mummy needs to calm you down, calpol and cot time

  48. Ukraine not mentioned as O/T

    The Usual Suspects have been dragging Ukraine into unrelated discussion threads since this started. Now that the boot is on the other foot it’s tumbleweed.

    A ~2% gain of what they lost isn’t massive . . .

    You think that because you’re a moron, Pcar. It’s not a question of square miles, it’s logistics and lines of command and control, along with enemy morale. Russia can no longer accomplish its stated goal of conquering Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts. Indeed, it appears as if it’s largely abandoning greater Luhansk and withdrawing back toward the rump LPR. I suspect they’ll also abandon Kherson Oblast north of the Dnieper. The Russians are seriously on the defensive and are probably going to focus merely on retaining the land bridge to Crimea (and Crimea itself).

    Whether they’ll be able to do that in the face of a morale collapse (and the pragmatic realisation that they can’t use Crimea as a naval base while the conflict is active) remains to be seen. And what effect all this has on Russian domestic politics will be interesting. Putin appears to be trying to throw the Russian military under the bus. That may not go well for him.

    Anyways, you know the rules. You’re too boring to engage with beyond the first page.

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