Not really, no

Brazilians shocked as Bolsonaro’s strong election showing defies expectations

Approximately half of those who voted seem to be perfectly happy with their choice.

Tears filled Beatriz Simões’s eyes as she digested Jair Bolsonaro’s startlingly strong performance in Sunday’s Brazilian election.

Hours earlier the 34-year-old publicist had been convinced a hope-filled dawn was coming with the election of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva as Brazil’s next leader.

But as she stood outside São Paulo’s museum of art – where Lula had come to insist his fight for power was alive – Simões wept as she pondered how loved ones had helped Brazil’s far-right incumbent surpass the predictions of pollsters.

“How can it be that my friends, my relatives, people who know me – who know that I am a black woman – still support the kind of thing Bolsonaro supports?” Simões asked as she and three friends grappled with the far right’s seemingly profound grip on society.

Some Brazilians are shocked. But that’s democracy for you……

30 thoughts on “Not really, no”

  1. “she and three friends grappled with the far right’s seemingly profound grip on society.”

    Shouldn’t that be society’s profound grip on the far right?

  2. Rather like the way the left regarded Thatcher as if she had been appointed by an unspecified higher power rather than having obtained a majority in a democratic election.

  3. It amuses me how the media always likes to refer to anything right of center as “far right” in an attempt to make it sound evil. Conversely the phrase “far left” is only used as a euphonism for “the Unhinged Radical Left”.

  4. Bloke in North Dorset

    I have looked at Bolsonaro’s policies too closely but the fact they appear to be having a relatively free and fair election sort of contradicts the accusation of him being far right.

    I have been amused about the far right / fascist accusation against accusations against Giorgia Meloni. I have followed her a bit more closely and I think Blue Labour would be the best description of her current policies.

  5. My polling has always returned overwhelming Lula support. But then I’m not exactly dealing with those who’ve benefited from Brasil’s economic successes, am I?
    Like the rest of S. America the Catholic religion plays such an important point. It predisposes people to favour the charismatic & “promises”. And the poorer they are, the more Catholic they’re going to be. It is a fucking awful religion. Up there with Islam. It’s the root cause of all South & Central America’s problems

  6. The BBC on a travel program criticised Bolsonaro because Amazon destruction has reached a 15 year high under him. However presumably this means it is the same as it was under Lula who was president 15 years ago.
    BTW I am concerned about the Amazon rainforest but only attacking right wing politicians who harm it, is a sure way for them to ignore such criticisms.
    The best way to get someone like Bolsonaro to save the rainforest would be to say, “Lula didn’t protect the rainforest very well, I am pretty sure that you can do better – and still grow Brazil’s economy. Breast cancer is cured by medicine from trees in the US. Maybe in thirty years time people will say that a type of cancer is cured because Bolsonaro saved the tree species which had the medicine from destruction.”

  7. “How can it be that my friends, my relatives, people who know me – who know that I am a black woman – still support the kind of thing Bolsonaro supports?”

    Lots of black people support Bolsonaro, but possibly they’re the wrong kind of black? Or they’re doing blackness wrong? Can we get an ugly, seething Asian woman to explain how this kerfuffle was caused by white supremacery?

  8. It is a fucking awful religion. Up there with Islam. It’s the root cause of all South & Central America’s problems

    Everything was going great in Tenochtitlan until the bloody fish-eaters showed up.

  9. One would have thought that they’d have learned from the way the Dems dealt with Trump.

    Still no doubt they’ll get it right next time!!!!

  10. I guessed it was The Mail. Then I searched for “Brazilians shocked as Bolsonaro’s strong election showing defies expectations” and how surprised was I? It was The Guardian all along.

    Silly me. 😉

  11. Everything was going great in Tenochtitlan until the bloody fish-eaters showed up.
    You could say exactly the same about everything above the Rio Grande, Steve. Except it was th3e Protestant fish eaters turned up & produced the wealthiest nation on the planet.
    It’s Dio. If your’re going to tell people there is a divine being who influences their lives they are never going to get their heads completely around cause & effect & learning from their mistakes. Because you can’t identify the cause. So it’s no accident that the more Catholic a culture is, the poorer & more dysfunctional it is. Europe. Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece (Orth). Can’t say I’m overly keen on Christianity. I’m more keen on kicking someone’s bollocks than turning the other cheek. But at least Protestantism teaches self reliance & being responsible for your own actions.

  12. Belief in the blank slate and the randomness of success is gaining ground in the UK. (See 45% kerfuffle.)
    So if talent and effort cannot be rewarded we’ll be lucky to avoid being as phvcked as Mexico.

  13. And particularly responsibility for your *own* actions. Your great-great-grandfather is responsible for your great-great-grandfather’s actions, not you. Something the Woken-SS are fanatically trying to overturn.

  14. You could say exactly the same about everything above the Rio Grande, Steve. Except it was th3e Protestant fish eaters turned up & produced the wealthiest nation on the planet.

    Hmm, can we think of any other reasons why Venezuela is a shithole?

  15. @bloke in Spain
    ” And the poorer they are, the more Catholic they’re going to be. It is a fucking awful religion. Up there with Islam. It’s the root cause of all South & Central America’s problems”
    I am not a fan of the RC and its attitude to education. (IIRC The first translation of the Bible into North American languages happened in the 17th century to South American in the 19th – and it was done by a protestant).
    However it is not as bad as Islam – if it were then converts to Protestantism would be in fear of their life.

  16. Well can you, Seve? Venezuela. Wonderful climate. Grow two crops a year. If you needed to grow any. You could live off what grows wild. Minerals. New England. Freezing cold half the year. If you don’t get a crop in the first year you starve. You dont think a dago Catholic culture who’ll vote for any charismatic cunt who makes big “promises” about future lands of milk & honey without mentioning how they might come about mightn’t have something to do with it? And that’s exactly what Lula did in Brasil. Big promises, fuck all results. Story of S. America. Plus, like the Catholic church, they rob the punter blind in the process.

  17. And re: one of your other obsessions. You don’t think there’s any connection between Putin’s foreign excursions & his big buddy being the head of the Russian Orthodox Church who preaches the same Greater Russia theology he does? None at all of course. They’re all wonderful chaps compared with the Ukrainian Nazis

  18. As the sainted Pournelle used to say: “Democracy is for people prepared to vote against their cousin if he doesn’t deserve to win, and willing to accept the result whatever it is. Everyone else should find themselves a King.”

    Wise words, as ever.

  19. However it is not as bad as Islam – if it were then converts to Protestantism would be in fear of their life.
    No, they don’t burn as many a they used to, do they? You just can’t get the faggots these days.
    It was the Catholic church said it was all right to enslave South American indios because they weren’t human & didn’t have souls. Oh, and Rome divided up S. America & its peoples & gave half to Portugal & half to Spain. They didn’t go there as settlers. They went there as owners. They didn’t build, they stole.
    Not like Islam?

  20. -ish, sorta. Popes kept being fairly loud about this – Indians couldn’t be enslaved because they had souls etc.

    They were always rather quieter about Africans.

    Part of which may well be that by 1550 or so everyone knew that the Indios couldn’t do the heavy work everyone wanted done while the Africans could.

  21. Pope wasn’t in S. America, was he Tim? Or maybe they weren’t loud enough? The church in Brasil didn’t hear them over the noise of the Atlantic sloshing about?
    Sure the Jesuits set about converting a lot so they could have souls. (Do souls come in sizes & need fitting?) And left the mess they have now.

    I’ve tried really hard to help some poor people in S. America. It’s a hopeless task. What I get back is “Bendigo. Gracias Dio!” It is not fucking Dio. It’s an englishman who would spit on your Jesus as he passed on the way to his crucifixion. I’d pay for the nails. I’m not doing it out of Christian love. I’m doing it so you can better yourselves & get out of poverty. So you’re not constantly on your sisters ear’ole for the money she earns selling her…. whatever she sells. But they really can’t see the relationship between doing something today & profiting from it tomorrow. “Dio will provide” Either that or they’re too fucking lazy to get up off their fat latino arses.

  22. Part of which may well be that by 1550 or so everyone knew that the Indios couldn’t do the heavy work everyone wanted done while the Africans could.
    Yeah. Isn’t it strange that Brits & the Yanks are getting all this shit about reparations & in Spain & Portugal hardly a murmur. On the other hand, the woman I wake up with is a descendent of slaves. ( I put manacles & chains on her sometimes, whip her a bit to remind her) Most of them are. Yet it never gets mentioned. It’s history. They got over it. Protestant guilt? We can’t do the thing with the rosary & the Ave Marias gets you divine forgiveness.

  23. David “However it is not as bad as Islam – if it were then converts to Protestantism would be in fear of their life.”

    Funny you should say that.. That was exactly why the dutch revolted against the spanish way back when…

  24. Given the ethnic melting pot that is Brazil would someone doing the identity politics ‘black woman’ thing be considered representative of the general population. The Brazilians I’ve met don’t seem to have all the European and North American hang ups on race etc

  25. @jgh – “Your great-great-grandfather is responsible for your great-great-grandfather’s actions, not you.”

    Indeed. There’s a word to express what it means to treat someone on the basis of their ancestors – racist.

  26. would someone doing the identity politics ‘black woman’ thing be considered representative of the general population.
    Since I live with one, I can probably answer that for her & all her many similar friends. They’d think she was loca & avoid her. It’s just not a thing. Despite, in Brasil, there is actual racial discrimination that puts blacks at the bottom of the heap.
    I’d say the whole “black identity” thing is something got imported from the USA. I was living around Notting Hill back in the late 60s before it became the preferred address of cabinet ministers & actually was black. But it was a black culture. People from the Caribbean who were immigrants & by virtue of that poor, not having yet had the opportunity to become wealthy. It was something that they were, not something they had to identify with. I’d say a lot of the “black identity” thing is actually resentment of blacks who’ve managed to prosper by blacks who haven’t. So to qualify, you have to identify as being poor even if you aren’t. I don’t think that can work in Brasil where so many Brasilians have some portion of black ancestry & the dividing line between being black & not being black are so blurred. Take the girl I live with. She’s from Bahia which is a very black province. Some of her friends are from the same place. They range from pretty well black to pretty well white. Collectively they are the bahianas & they’re proud of being the Bahianas! Bahia! Best food in Brasil. And so’s the bass player of a band we know does a mix of 60s rock, blues & brasilian reggae. To look at him, not a drop of black blood in him. But he’s still bahiano (Or with the capital B). Bahia! It doesn’t make them better or worse than being a Paulista* or Carioca*. Except, of course, Las Bahianas! are the very, very best in Brasil. At everything.
    *Sao Paulo.
    **Rio

  27. @Grikath
    “David “However it is not as bad as Islam – if it were then converts to Protestantism would be in fear of their life.”

    Funny you should say that.. That was exactly why the dutch revolted against the spanish way back when…”
    Very true. I should have said it is not as bad as Islam today. Of course in the past it was an evil religion.
    I know lots of Latino Protestants who believe the world is worse today than ever before. I always point out that their chances of getting persecuted at home are smaller than ever before.
    Sadly they have very little knowledge of history.

    @bloke in spain
    I should have been clearer.
    About the Russian Orthodox Church I fear you are right.

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