Discussions are taking place at Downing Street about the country’s military budget. The military want more money. The Prime Minister, meanwhile, is trying to ensure the country doesn’t tip into bankruptcy. What emerges in terms of military spending in the coming months and years could define Britain’s military posture as we enter an emerging multipolar world.
The first thing that stands out about Britain’s military spending is how inefficient it appears to be. Britain fields a total army of around 217,100 personnel, comparable to Germany’s army of 233,550. But, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), Britain spent $68.4bn in 2021 on its military while Germany spent $56bn. Britain spent 22% more than Germany on an army 7% smaller.
You’ve noticed that our Army can actually fight, does not drill with broomsticks and all that?
I’ve noticed our armed forces have only been used to do disastrous and evil things for the past 40 years, and despite spending tens of billions every fiscal on ‘defence’, we somehow ‘can’t’ stop Britain being invaded via dinghy, or via Home Office invitation after we spent 20 years fucking around foolishly in Bacha-bazistan.
We don’t need to waste money on any of this shit, we can easily afford to abolish the British Army and the RAF without it making the slightest difference to our actual defence needs. Just give the Royal Navy a few more hulls and planes and focus on protecting British commerce at sea.
Frankly, if Britain is pulled into an economic war with China, it will leave a huge dent in the public purse.
No shit. They’re doing it anyway.
It does seem to ignore that the British Army still has bases in Germany & British defence commitments under NATO include defending Germany. Whereas the German Army has no corresponding bases in the UK & no commitments to defending the UK. (& to be honest, doesn’t seem to have much commitment to defending Germany)
Not exactly like for like, is it?
With disrespect, Steve, you do seem to have overlooked the RAF’s role of air defence of the UK. Or would you prefer your pal Vovo has it as a free-fly zone?
The top trumps approach to defence capability comparison
Frankly we need to double defence spending to restore our ability to fight a war against a peer opponent for more than a few days, and that’s without increasing the physical size of the armed forces
Logistics stockpiles have been run down since 1982 and even more since Russia’s aggression
We cannot reply on increased production either, the supply chains has been disinvested too
Thanks to all our governments’ lack of strategic vision
BiS – the RAF exists on nostalgia fumes from 1940, but it’s not 1940 and it’s now a criminal offence to mention Guy Gibson’s dog.
We don’t need three different armed forces in the Year of Our Lord 2023, we need a single, lean, tightly integrated force. Hopefully led by people who aren’t complete idiots, but you can’t have everything. Think the Israeli Defense Forces.
There’s nothing the RAF does that can’t be done just as well or better by the Fleet Air Arm. Intra-service bumfuckery is an expensive luxury.
Btw, if we’re learning anything from Ukraine (doubtful, since they failed to learn from Libya), we should be building massive quantities of missiles, drones and shells *now*. Because when we’re committed to a high intensity conflict, it’ll be too late. Though I expect further managed decline instead, and the next Labour government will probably find a transgender black lesbian to run the show.
With disrespect, Steve, you do seem to have overlooked the RAF’s role of air defence of the UK. Or would you prefer your pal Vovo has it as a free-fly zone?
Isn’t that what we’ve got two massive
missile targetsaircraft carriers for?Isn’t that what we’ve got two massive missile targets aircraft carriers for?
Doing CAP’s over a fleet at sea is a bit of a different role to air defence of the UK. The Navy doesn’t really have a viable AWACS capability.
I’d agree with you on this, Steve. The UK has 3 separate arms mainly to give jobs to admirals, generals & air commodores. An integrated UK defence force makes much more sense. Then they wouldn’t be expending 90% of their combat capability fighting amongst themselves.
Worth noting, maybe, that UK maintains nuclear missile submarines at huge cost, and a navy with a pretence at having a “blue-water” capability. That’s a lot of cost Germany doesn’t have.
Maybe the comparison isn’t so negative.
“a peer opponent”
The only one that springs to mind is France.
“Steve
January 3, 2023 at 1:17 pm”
The UK doesn’t have a fleet air arm of any note. It has one aircraft carrier – which is the same as having no aircraft carriers. “Two is one, one is none.”
And its position right off the coast of Europe means that its in range of mass strikes and an airfield is much more survivable than a carrier and allows you to manage more aircraft.
“BIS
Then they wouldn’t be expending 90% of their combat capability fighting amongst themselves.”
Oh, they still would. It’s just that as an integrated service it would present an opportunity for one mafia or the other to gain control and favor their own specialty over the others. *That’s* why you have separate services.
Especially when you’re trying to integrate very different combat specialities like Naval and big ticket items like ships. Even the USMC, an integrated service (in the sense that it does ground, fixed, and rotary wing operations) still isn’t going to get its own ships to operate.
“despite spending tens of billions every fiscal on ‘defence’, we somehow ‘can’t’ stop Britain being invaded via dinghy”
This is an absolutely asinine comparison. You might as well write “despite spending billions on defence, you can still get stabbed in a British city”. I mean it’s true, but what difference would a bigger and better armed forces make on that point? The issue is the legal framework that we have for dealing with the boats. Coastguard vessels are under a duty to prevent these people drowning, rather than blowing their dinghies to smithereens.
Steve, whatever other qualities you may have, you know jack shit about defence.
BiS: “& to be honest, doesn’t seem to have much commitment to defending Germany”
Germany is in a bit of “Damned if you do/Damned if you don’t” territory there.
It could, in theory, probably in practice as well (still), set up a serious armed force. Probably quickly and efficiently as well.
And, as far as I am concerned, they finally should after all these decades.
But doing so would make various peeps very, very nervous. and start to dig up stuff and butthurt from almost a century ago.
Probably starting with the UK, who have a vested interest in keeping the german army stunted.
But doing so would make various peeps very, very nervous. and start to dig up stuff and butthurt from almost a century ago.
I thought that this time everyone was all in favour of Germany rapidly building an army and marching through Poland to fight Russia…?
“despite spending tens of billions every fiscal on ‘defence’, we somehow ‘can’t’ stop Britain being invaded via dinghy”
this might work better as:
“we spend tens of billions on ‘defence’ and we choose not to prevent an invasion”, thus
” what difference would a bigger and better armed forces make on that point?”
Answer: nunatall.
And therefore, whats the point in having them? Which rather brings us back where we came in and the “absolutely asinine” snark exposed for the soapytitwank that it is.
I know jack shit about defence if it snot vauban’s forts. but I do know we’re being invaded and aside from the half billion a year we’re paying generally to the protection racket currently governing (lol) us, we’re paying MoD £41 bn to do nothing, and fuck knows how much else to feed and house the trojan horse after the MoD’s done nowt.
The government does know jack shit, and where’s that getting us … those of us who doesn’t wish t0 be invaded?
Snark doesn’t cut it. we’re being invaded, ffs.
Actually real live honest fucking invaded. And you wankers are snarking.
“I thought that this time everyone was all in favour of Germany rapidly building an army and marching through Poland to fight Russia…?”
As far as I can determine (from living 10000 miles away), Europe still has France and Germany looking daggers at each other. Britain’s attitude is to balance them out.
For a while there the USSR did sort of concentrate minds a bit and once in a while (although not to the extent it should have).
Russia though? The mindset seems to have reverted back to the 19th century: “Russia? Uncivilized, and can’t get their act together militarily.”
I’m just waiting for someone to start declaring themselves the new would-be rulers of the world empire.
Actually real live honest fucking invaded. And you wankers are snarking.
Snarking at people who say we’re being “real live honest fucking invaded” but don’t do anything other than whine in blog comments seems fair enough.
There’s a subset of the right that has become the equivalent of “not in my name” leftie whiners. They’re about as much use to humanity and can fuck off to the same degree.
– I thought that this time everyone was all in favour of Germany rapidly building an army and marching through Poland to fight Russia…?
Notwithstanding the clown nose you’ve borrowed from Steve, it’s worth pointing out that Poland has rapidly built an army and isn’t going to take any shit from Russia (or Germany).
Agammamon – The UK doesn’t have a fleet air arm of any note. It has one aircraft carrier – which is the same as having no aircraft carriers. “Two is one, one is none.”
Britain is an aircraft carrier.
kimk1979 – Sadly true. Our “defence” spending is obviously very popular with the shareholders of BAE, but what we, the mugs who pay for it all, get out of it is mysterious.
Homeless veterans? Colonies of Afghans? £5,000 electricity bills? Idk why conservatives/libertarians keep simping for their enemies, despite being consistently treated like human shit. It’s like a battered wife who keeps insisting her man isn’t that bad, while wearing sunglasses over her black eyes.
Maybe they like the beatings.
Bloke in Powys – so you’re saying I should be Prime Minister?
BiS – The UK has 3 separate arms mainly to give jobs to admirals, generals & air commodores.
It shouldn’t surprise us that the armed wing of the civil service is just as overstuffed with useless management as the NHS is, but it still does. If we slimmed down the command chain we might get dangerously close to people in comfortably paid senior positions being held accountable for the outcomes they deliver.
Anon – The issue is the legal framework that we have for dealing with the boats
Lol. Have you looked up ‘gullible’ in the dictionary lately? There’s never any problem with ‘legal frameworks’ (which are just easily amended words on paper, btw) when the kakistocracy wants to do something evil, such as put you under house arrest for 2 years over a flu, or arrange to have your children sterilised on the NHS, or put people in jail for complaining too loudly about grooming gangs.
We’re being invaded because the British establishment wants it. Because they hate you, and they mean you harm. Defend yourself.
PJF – Snarking at people who say we’re being “real live honest fucking invaded” but don’t do anything other than whine in blog comments seems fair enough.
Go and fight Russia then, we’ll wait.
Go and fight Russia then, we’ll wait.
Why would I do that? Ukraine is fighting Russia and I support this country’s support of Ukraine. On this issue I’m gold; you’re the one bitching and moaning and doing diddly.
“Snarking at people who say we’re being “real live honest fucking invaded” but don’t do anything other than whine in blog comments seems fair enough.”
Says the 62 year-old who’s slurping up all the east european military action he can get but is too old to do anything but cheer from the sidelines whilst encouraging others to get killed.
Anyway, I’ve got a haversack full of hairspray cans plus a couple dozen ciggie lighters. I’ll meet you tonight at Speaker’s corner at 0230 and we can go and do something. Plus, maybe we can get the MOD to give us some shoulder-launched missiles to launch against our enemies at the, er, MOD.
Anyway, see you at 0230. Speaker’s corner. I’ll be wearing the fuck you, smarmy cunts t-shirt.
Defend yourself.
Type louder!
Says the 62 year-old . . .
Harsh!
Anyway, see you at 0230. Speaker’s corner.
Sorry, other plans involving being in bed. Perhaps I’ll call Whitehall 1212 and tell them to look out for a sad twat strutting around with his school satchel.
The tens of billions in new expenditure and utilisation of existing manpower and weaponry are overwhelmingly spent on away fixtures.
Just a tiny fraction of that total put towards defending our own borders would be hugely popular politically as well as making sound economic sense. It isn’t going to happen though.
Still they did a good job at Gatwick recently.
Still think the UK keeping its nukes is one of its wiser decisions.
But I do agree that, since the government doesn’t want to stop the invasion, the armed forces aren’t much use. I always thought the good, old fashioned idea of chucking the invaders in a pit full of snakes was the way to go.
The only point in using the Navy in the Channel is if they were going to start machine gunning the boaters. As popular as that policy would be in Kent. I suspect that there may be a few legal issues.
My personal plan would be to buy an old cruise ship ( of which there are quite a few going cheap ), fill it with frozen halal meat and sail it to St Helena or South Georgia. Then helicopter the crew to an awaiting destroyer. As all these illegals apparently are engineers and doctors, they should be able to hold it at anchor and keep the motors running. As we are dealing with British teritories there won’t be any European Court problems.
“As we are dealing with British teritories there won’t be any European Court problems.”
That has been the thing puzzling me. Why on earth pick Rawanda to send migrants to, when we have dozens of far-away tiny islands that *we* control and that do *not* have right of entry to the UK that we could send them to.
Diego Garcia jgh??
More seriously, if they’re stuck in some foreign shithole, they can’t appeal to the UK courts because it’s run by some foul foreign fiend. Who’ll lose his bribe—–oops foreign aid if he sends them to the UK.
Since they’re detained not imprisoned, they can also depart for any foreign clime that’ll take them. If the UK wishes to appear generous, it can offer to pay their airfare if they wish to go home and take what’s coming to them.
PJF must be this blogs resident Nazi. Love the way you support probably the only actual live extant National Socialists still in existence, all because they make you cream yourself when you think of them ?
But doing so would make various peeps very, very nervous. and start to dig up stuff and butthurt from almost a century ago. Probably starting with the UK, who have a vested interest in keeping the German army stunted.
I don’t think the UK any longer feels that its our job to prevent the Bundeswehr panzers from rolling down the Champs-Élysées, if they fancy their chances. That’s the role of the Berlaymont, these days.
As El Draque mentions, we have a “fairly expensive” submarine program – both the hunter-killers (Astute class currently replacing the last of the Trafalgar class), and the nuclear deterrent with the Dreadnought class currently under construction to start replacing the “getting rather old and tired with associated maintenance and availability problems” Vanguard class around 2030.
Part of being in NATO is the “all for one, one for all” aspect. So we have the subs, others have more tanks, others have more of something else. So you can’t pick one aspect (e.g. number of tanks or number of soldiers) and compare that – if you were to pick nuclear missile carrying subs, then apart from us and the Americans, the rest of NATO would look rather rubbish with a grand total of zero subs to show for their expenditure.
But leaving that aside, Starfish is right that the Russia-Ukraine conflict has shown up the folly of depleting stocks of “old fashioned” weapons and munitions, and of not keeping your supply chains intact. But at least we haven’t (yet) exported most of our supply chain to China …
PJF must be this blogs resident Nazi. Love the way you support probably the only actual live extant National Socialists still in existence, all because they make you cream yourself when you think of them ?
I doubt he’s a Blairite, Bently. Nor even a Tory.