It is being said by many that the NHS cannot survive as it is and that a new funding model must be found.
That’s not the argument at all. I know this because I’m one of those making it.
Rather, the argument is that another way of managing health care is required. Precisely and exactly because the NHS as currently constituted has a real terms 4% per annum inflation rate. We need to improve productivity there. That means bringing in markets and competition. QED.
Funding is a second order trivia as against that.
But more funding would be a wonderful excuse for not doing anything else Tim.
The NHS worked in 2010. It did not in 1997. It does not again in 2023. There is a pattern there. It suggests that politics matters when it comes to this issue.
Well that is just a blatant lie – not even attempting to hide his partisan leanings.
What also matters is whether there is a relationship between NHS spending and GDP. Most commentary is incredibly conventional, and wrong, on this issue. The assumption is that accountants selling tax abuse in the private sector boost GDP and that this is what pays for the NHS.
I’m wondering if he has a substance abuse problem….
The perverse logic within society is that without the massive range of harms the market provides and which we are persuaded to consume, from foods that are bad to us, to credit we don’t need to pay for things only adverts persuade us we want, we can’t have the NHS.
So the state should ban certain foods and all private advertising – I’d say it’s like North Korea except I don’t think their rules extend to specifying what foods are ‘good and ‘bad’.
The claim is that even if something like being fit is essential to deliver well-being, and is vital to let us work to best ability, the organisation that underpins its creation adds no value to society. Just because we don’t pay the NHS it is assumed that it is worthless.
Without the NHS everyone would be unfit, just as they are in Holland, Norway, Germany…..
I am, of course, referring to the habit of those with more money than they need to meet basic needs to spend on private healthcare and education. That they do is very largely to virtue signal that they can afford to do so: this spending is what is called conspicuous consumption.
Yes of course – instead of going private we should allow cataracts (for example) to cause actual blindness. We should turn our children over to the local state school where they can be bullied and come out unable to procure employment because of collapsed standards.
So we need to spend more. I will not repeat my earlier arguments on where this money might come from. It’s easily available in a variety of ways, explained in this link. Anyone who says there is no money is wrong.
I am the way and the truth, whosoever believeth in me, that person SHALL NOT DIE….
Tax is also essential to reduce private sector spending capacity so we can increase state spending capacity. Tax is never really ever about revenue raising when it comes to government (see my free ebook ‘Money for nothing and my tweets for free’ as an explanation of that).
Again North Korea or Zimbabwe are the model
To summarise. We need to reallocate resources to the NHS and other state services. We need to do so because need is unmet, wellbeing is being crushed, people are being employed doing the wrong things, and the economy is failing as a sure sign of all that.
I know best how to allocate not just the health sector but the entirety of the economy, heedless of what happened over 4 decades post World War 2, I’m telling you I’VE GOT THE ANSWER….
Only tax can be used by government as a tool to redirect resources from where they are wasted to where they are needed. Using tax, government has the power to correct market failings of the sort we have seen for more than a decade now.
Taxes are at the highest in 7 decades but they AREN’T HIGH ENOUGH!!!
The entire thread is a good argument that he should ideally be sectioned. Insane really isn’t adequate to describe the level of self-delusion and intellectual arrogance on display. The man is a lunatic.
I saw an article on YouTube about Zahawis ‘carelessness’ regarding tax. I thought Dan Neidle’s interviews were excellent and was going to click on it then saw it was an interview between a certain young man named Owen and “Tax Expert” R. Murphy. Needless to say………
The problem with being retired is you lose track of days, but Spud comes to the rescue. Today governments must raise taxes in order to spend so it must be Wednesday. IIRC that means tomorrow is governments with their currency can spend as much as they like.
“Tax is also essential to reduce private sector spending capacity so we can increase state spending capacity. Tax is never really ever about revenue raising when it comes to government”
The first sentence seems to contradict the second. The second is his opinion that Governments create money at will and don’t require tax for funding. The first sentence seems to imply that there is a fixed stock of money in the economy and the Government has to fight for its share against taxpayers. Inviting him onto phone-ins is the modern equivalent of running tours of lunatic asylums
I suppose tomorrow, he will declare that “crowding out” is an impossibility
Just trolling, amirite?
Tangentially on funding, Amazon workers are striking to have their wage increased from £10 to £15 an hour.
As a skilled technical worker on £16 an hour, I shall then have to insist on being uprated to £25 to preserve my differential over unskilled non-technical work. Otherwise, WTF did I bother gaining and maintaining a technical skill-set when I could get the same as a labourer?
@jgh
“Tangentially on funding, Amazon workers are striking to have their wage increased from £10 to £15 an hour.”
At what rate does automation become more cost effective? I know Amazon already uses a lot of robots in its warehouses.
And they can sell them….
If prices are noise, what is productivity good for?
Is this some back handed tribute to Edwin Starr?
“Tax is also essential to reduce private sector spending capacity so we can increase state spending capacity.”
Utterly, utterly evil cunt. He only sees people as worker ants whose productive efforts can be exploited by his Curajus State. He would rather that we all had no agency at all.
I am, of course, referring to the habit of those with more money than they need to meet basic needs to spend on private healthcare and education.….
Perhaps professor potato can lead by example and stop spending money beyond his basic needs on toy train sets.
Anyone who demands more than a subsistence wage is a greedy neoliberal capitalist profiteer (and Tory scum).
If he wants interest on his savings he’s also a greedy rentier (and Tory scum).
Geoffers
‘Utterly, utterly evil cunt. He only sees people as worker ants whose productive efforts can be exploited by his Curajus State. He would rather that we all had no agency at all.’
Absolutely – there’s arguably people incriminated by ‘Operation YewTree’ who are less malicious than this man. He absolutely sees people as a means to an end. His end. As close to Pure evil as we’re likely to see.
Hmmm…. I’m not for a second siding with Dr. Potato, but the 4% real terms increase is surely not inflation as such, but an increase in demand as the age profile worsens, and an increase in supply as drugs and other treatments develop. That doesn’t mean I disagree with how such a problem should be addressed, though.
Private health care is “virtue signalling” is it? My late parents both had private medical cover, but would consider it rather naff to tell anyone at all that they had it. Rather, I would have thought, it would be virtue signalling to insist on using the NHS, thus using their resources, and pushing someone further back in the queue when you could well afford to to cover the cost yourself.
And the rise in energy prices has reduced spending, hasn’t it? How has that helped the NHS?
Thee man’s a loon!
I think you are all missing the point. Most of the NHS spend is in wages. And it’s a well known fact that more revenue is gained from NHS workers wages through tax, than they cost. So if you quintupled the NHS labour force there would be enough surplus you would all be living milk & honey & HS2’s.
BiS, dont you know how dangerous it is to start thinking like Spud?
Productivity? A 4% increase in real term funding vs a 15%ish increase in excess deaths? That is productivity, NHS-style. Could Spud bend his mind to working out how they could kill fewer of us for the same money?
I omitted trebling their wages, Diogenes. And it’d be HS3’s & 4’s & 5’s … A list of them.
That’s Spudthink.
Bis but a paragraph later he would be on about how you have to tax private spending to enable more public spend…. It’s like trying to wrestle Mick McManus
“Government funding”. The modern day proxy for Marxism!
trying to wrestle Mick McManus
Showing your (and my) age, there, Dio!