Very weirdJanuary 14, 2023 Tim WorstallFeminism11 CommentsMoving on from machismo: is noxious masculinity finally receding from sport? Hannah Jane Parkinson Eh? Sport is machismo. previousSounds like a good ideanextWhen your defence against theft is bribery 11 thoughts on “Very weird” The Meissen Bison January 14, 2023 at 10:29 am What’s relatively new is that toxic masculinity is advancing in women’s sport. Boganboy January 14, 2023 at 10:50 am In so far as I could bring myself to read the article, it seems to be complaining that men aren’t women. Grikath January 14, 2023 at 11:16 am Welllll… It is the Guardian, Boganboy. I don’t think there’s an actual male on the entire roster there. Sam Vara January 14, 2023 at 11:25 am Parkinson was the Guardian journalist who exulted in a police officer being injured after their horse crashed into a road-sign during a riot. That’s pretty noxiously macho, cheering and mocking someone on the other team when they are badly injured during the match. Of course, once HJP was informed it was a female officer she apologised and blamed it on the medication she had taken to control her mental health problems. When she gets a clean bill of mental health, it might be worth having a look at her writing to see if is worth reading. Bernie G January 14, 2023 at 1:26 pm Machismo a thing of the past? I’m watching Leinster on the box, thinking to myself I would be reluctant to walk into the same room as these guys. Then again, I would be reluctant to walk into the same room as a Guardian journalist. TomJ January 14, 2023 at 1:50 pm I’ve played a lot of rugby, occasionally alongside Premiership players, and been drinking with people who were playing at the very top level. The only one whose presence made me feel nervous was Craig Quinnell; not due to anything he said or did – he was boisterous but seemed to have his hear in the right place – but just because of how he filled the room. That said, I’ve never met Martin Johnson… Bloke on M4 January 14, 2023 at 2:42 pm “After Federer had played his last competitive match – teaming up with Nadal in doubles – the two sat and watched as the screens of London’s O2 Arena flashed highlights of the Swiss’s iconic career. Ellie Goulding belted out a ballad. Lights strobed. Federer did one of those hiccup-cries kids do. His pinkie finger moved towards Nadal’s. The Spaniard’s eyes were red; Federer’s nose was giving Rudolph with a coke habit. Pretty soon their shoulders were heaving in sync.” Yes, dear, after he played his last match. It’s like when you have old fighter aces from the RAF and the Luftwaffe shaking hands and having a chat about what they did. No longer in competition, they can just relax and show respect each other’s talents, reveal their vulnerabilities. “Do you know what Fritz? If you’d hit me on the other side, I’d have been a gonner”. “Undoubtedly a tedious “no homo” locker-room bro culture still exists (which would no doubt have perplexed the ancient Greek male athletes who came up with the Olympics and were not infrequently pro-homo), but there seems to be a definite turning of the tide.” I don’t actually believe that all this homosexuality was going on with the Greeks and Romans. There is no contemporary society where powerful men are homosexuals. Find a job that gets more homosexuals and women, and it’s a sign that the power is leaving (like the CofE, parliament). And tolerance of homosexuality is much more prevalent in more industrial societies than less. Roman pornography is overwhelmingly straight. I suspect that it was more about who did the writing, and who they know. “One could argue that the rise of women’s sports has had an influence. Women’s football, in particular, has boomed in popularity – especially with the Lionesses’ Euros triumph. Crowds are friendlier, more welcoming, less pugilistic and more diverse. This global growth in women’s sport has provided a refreshing change and the opportunity of an alternative: high quality, highly competitive, often heated and combative sport – without an undercurrent of dickishness and shithousery.” Yeah, they’re women. Doesn’t apply. MC January 14, 2023 at 3:06 pm In so far as I could bring myself to read the article, it seems to be complaining that men aren’t women. Worth saving for future copy/paste…. I don’t actually believe that all this homosexuality was going on with the Greeks and Romans. Well, the ancients didn’t really have any concept of sexual orientation as such, they focused (not unreasonably) on the act and assumed (equally reasonably) that everyone would get married and have a family. Professional male sports players are overwhelmingly heterosexual and traditionally/toxically male because sport is all about competition and aggression. The camper gentleman tends to be drawn to the arts etc. Likewise, the proportion of lesbians ie butcher women in pro female sports is hugely greater than in the general population. Stereotypes are almost never entirely true but almost always entirely valid. bloke in spain January 14, 2023 at 4:08 pm I’ve always believed sport was just a substitute for warfare. One to one combat or mob. Even down to being interested in it. Colour me non-machismo if you must, but I’ve never been able to work up any interest whatsoever in who wins in anything. My eternal hope is always been that England/Wales/Scotland/Ireland/UK get knocked out of whatever it is in the first round so I don’t have to suffer other’s enthusiasm. BniC January 14, 2023 at 5:38 pm Orwell said sport is war minus the shooting As for women’s sports Bill Burr hit the nail on the head, men predominantly watch sports women don’t so the lack of interest in women’s leagues is the fault of women not supporting them not the fault of men https://youtu.be/QY9Gz_IMn_k Bloke on M4 January 15, 2023 at 11:41 am MC, “Well, the ancients didn’t really have any concept of sexual orientation as such, they focused (not unreasonably) on the act and assumed (equally reasonably) that everyone would get married and have a family.” I don’t believe that more men wanted to fuck other men than they do today. They might not have defined sexual orientation, but most men just do not want to do it with other men. There’s various writing about honouring homosexual military leaders, about units based on lovers, but if this works, why doesn’t it exist now? Let’s be honest, a lot of historical writing is lies, exaggerations, distortions. 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