The number of deaths registered in England involving Covid-19 vaccines causing adverse effects is miniscule compared to the number administered – 59 compared with 144.7 million.
I’d be surprised if a 144 million of absolutely anything at all – walking upstairs, packets of Smarties, lying in bed of a morning – does not cause that many deaths.
You seem to miss the point that the 59 will be completely bogus. Doctors are doubtless lying, being keen to keep their jobs and registrations. Hell’s bells, they lied throughout the pandemic.
How many will the vaxx have killed? God knows – but if the number is trivial you need to explain why the government, including the ONS, is trying hard to keep relevant data out of the hands of independent researchers. If the vaxx were safe why would they do that?
(The lying doctors have one defence: suppose the vaxx kills principally by buggering your immune system. Then they can write down the ailment that carried you off without worrying whether it was the vaxx that was the profound cause of that weak immune system. I dare say such a defence might work in the courts in the unlikely event of their being an attempt at a reckoning.)
There’s one route around the buggeration of observational data. Go back and look at the original trials. If you combine the data from the Pfizer and Moderna trials then the vaxxed had a statistically higher death rate than the control group. Moreover, as people scrutinise the Pfizer trial they see evidence that, in their view, Pfizer was suppressing or misattributing reported deaths. Oh what an utter fuck up the whole thing has been.
” Moreover, as people scrutinise the Pfizer trial they see evidence that, in their view, Pfizer was suppressing or misattributing reported deaths. ”
You mean the company that has been fined billions for fraud and misrepresentation of its drugs might have fiddled its vaccine trials in order to get its hands on some of the hundreds of billions of vaccine revenues? Surely not!
Where does the 59 figure come from? Autopsies? Coroners? Deaths have to be investigated before anyone can start comparing figures, and it is rumoured that autopsies are not happening because the death cert doesn’t flag anything to require them. Not to mention that the vax can seriously fuck up your health without killing you and that ought to be a factor in deciding its safety.
Oh, now it’s only about deaths, as opposed to “cases”?
Given that doctors can hauled up in front of the GMC and have their licence to practise removed for daring to question the effectiveness or safety of the vaccines, how many do you think are going to report a potential vaccine death unless they have a corpse of someone who has just been jabbed laying on their surgery floor?
You’re so ridiculously lax and evasive on this – the biggest story since WWII – that it almost makes me wonder whether you’ve been got at, or paid off.
I suspect the truth is you got jabbed and you’re worried about what it may have done to you, and that your head is thus inserted deep in the comforting sand.
Whatever, that’s your problem.
Dearieme makes the extraordinarily obvious point that the data is not to be trusted, for various reasons – not least that they won’t let anyone else see it. If that doesn’t set off the alarm bells in your head I’m not quite sure what will.
Pharma is provably and completely corrupt, the journals and the reviewers and many of the researchers are corrupted by pharma, governments are corrupt, and the media are corrupt, and the whole thing is being driven by unaccountable people who openly say they want to reduce the world population, but sure, let’s trust them all to tell the truth about this rather than to hold their hands up and walk into courts to be sentenced.
This preprint is worth considering – if the past is any guide it will be ignored by the media and rubbished by other scientists, both of which groups have many millions of £/$ at stake:
What do you think IS causing the high death rate and low birth rate across most of the vaccinated world?
Deaths should go down after a ‘pandemic’, with all the pull forward effect of weak and old people dying a year or two early. Instead, deaths have gone up.
It’s a total mystery, but let’s just trust, er, Rishi Sunak, Matt Hancock, Joe Biden, the head of Pfizer and their fellow travellers, because these are not people who would ever do anything to harm us, oh no, certainly not, they have our best interests at heart oh yes.
Three funerals of blokes in their fifties in my village and around last week alone. All heart attacks. One was a walking wicket, the other two – complete shock. Bloke I know aged 58, his brother aged 60, and two of the brother’s mates, both late 50s/early 60s, diagnosed with sudden galloping prostate cancer in the last fortnight, too.
Fuck it, who cares. Let’s ‘rag on Ritchie’ a bit more, that’s the important thing here.
My experience is similar to that of Interested, except that it involves soft tissue cancers, aggressive and fast.
Four cases in a year, when a much wider acquaintance in the past threw up perhaps one a decade. Three victims are dead, the fourth was diagnosed only a month ago with a Stage 4.
My brother in law has been collecting news of the heart attacks, so far without making the connection.
Oh, and of course, everyone had at least one dose of the Vaxx.
Gerald Ford withdrew the swine flu vax for less.
Given that for most people the covid is a trivial inconvenience (see Diamond Princess) the risk / benefit calculation is to avoid vaccination if you can. 144 million injections is way over the top. The USA pushing to vaccinate babes in arms is so ridiculous it’s evil.
You might also want to check out data on menstrual irregularities, miscarriages and still births, Tim.
But hey, we all know that correlation is not causation, don’t we.
Are there 144 million people in the the UK?
You missed the obvious misdirection, quoting the number of people who died versus doses given, rather than number of people vaccinated – it’s that apples and oranges thing.
Also: “ The Yellow Card reporting scheme has reported that between 9 December 2020 and 8 September 2021 there were 1,645 deaths where the person died shortly after receiving one of the coronavirus vaccines. ” (https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/)
So that 59 number is suspect. It is generally accepted that reporting systems like Yellow Card report only 10% of actual. The last recent figure I read, was 2 300 deaths (UK).
The next question is, how does that compare with other vaccines, and the answer is significantly higher.
The people dying are mostly fit, in good health and in no danger from the SARS CoV 2, do even if just 59, that’s 59 murders.
And let’s nit forget the tens of thousands (UK) serious adverse reactions, like myocarditis, neurological disorders, drop in fertility, still-births, for example.
‘You might also want to check out data on menstrual irregularities, miscarriages and still births, Tim.’
Young chap I play cricket with, his girlfriend – very bright, just finishged a masters at Cambridge and now on the Foreign Office fast track – has suffered terrible menstrual irregularities since the jab. Neither she nor he are having any more (after the first two plus a booster, FFS).
@The Other Bloke in Italy
That’s just the prostate cancers. I also know a bloke (70) who developed very aggressive bladder cancer (had to have his bladder removed) and a woman (63) who developed breast cancer; my own father (last 70s) has developed kidney cancer and my mother (similar age) recently died from a sudden internal bleed after a year of bizarre side effects. All jabbed.
That’s off the top of my head, there are more.
Obviously, at these ages cancers and so on are what you find, and it (genuinely) could all be coincidental, but I’ve never known anything like this in these numbers before.
“And let’s not forget the tens of thousands (UK) serious adverse reactions”
It’s more than that..;)
‘The Yellow Card reporting scheme has reported that between 9 December 2020 and 8 September 2021 there were 1,645 deaths where the person died shortly after receiving one of the coronavirus vaccines.’
I had a discussion/argument with Tom Whipple, ‘science correspondent’ of the Times, at a party a while back. (He knows a friend of a friend.)
He was arguing that the Yellow Card data was meaningless.
I asked in that case why was it that the government had a reasonably long history of promoting the YC system, including trying to get mnore doctors etc to use it because it is known to be subject to significant under-reporting, and why it spent some unknown number of millions (it will be quite a few, knowing the government) in running the damned thing.
He didn’t really have an answer.
The government seems to have stopped sending out press releases asking people to remember to use the YC system in favour of using court hacks to rubbish its own system’s data. Most odd.
I’d be surprised if … 144 million . . . packets of Smarties . . . does not cause that many deaths.
According to wiki, there were 5 billion Smarties lids produced over 25 years, so 200 million per year (this backed up by 570,000 packs per day production). If more than 59 people died annually due to eating Smarties, Rowntrees/Nestlé would have been sued into oblivion if not shut down first.
Quite, Interested. Live long enough, and cancers are more likely.
But, as you say, present numbers seem unprecedented. Sufficient anecdata become a statistical series.
The death rate *did* drop below normal after the first wave. The pick-up above normal during nd after second wave was prtly due to all the opertions andtreatments that NHS had failed to carry out while it was focussing its attention on the pndemic.
The Counterfactual is number of deaths with no vaccination and the NHS being mostly unavailable – data not available. Data *is* available for Peru which depended on Chinese vaccines (no-one can trust data for Chinese deaths) 6524 per million: well over double that of the UK and more than twice the death rate in Brazil the target for left-wing condemnation; eastern european countries that relied largely on Russian vaccines (e.g. Hungary) have death rates around 50% higher than the UK.
Actually most of the vaxes given in Peru were Pfizer. Chinese vaccines were only used at the beginning.
‘The death rate *did* drop below normal after the first wave. The pick-up above normal during nd after second wave was prtly due to all the opertions andtreatments that NHS had failed to carry out while it was focussing its attention on the pndemic’
Excess mortality did drop slightly for a brief time John – though this is equally compatible with virtually no-one driving anywhere, lots of places of work being shut down etc.
But then it rose and it stayed high; it’s obviously no good something working for 6-10 weeks if it then makes matters worse, and clearly the yearly figures are of more interest than a few good weeks or even months.
I assume there is some element of inaccess to medical care involved later on, but you yourself say this is only partly to blame.
If you look at the recent NZ data, where hospitals were more accessible than ours (because their country was shut down and they had ‘beaten’ Covid), what caused the 38,178 extra hospitalisations in NZ in 2021 across 12 categories (eg kidney and liver injuries, various thormboses, myo/pericarditis etc) compared with 2019 – even allowing for the traditional data trick of registering vaccinated people as unvaccinated, as familiar in the UK and as outlined below?
Either way, the cover up is the canary in the coalmine: they’re hiding most of the figures, manipulating others, and there are no nightly TV news conferences about it.
@Bloke in Callao
Actually most of the vaxes given in Peru were Pfizer. Chinese vaccines were only used at the beginning.’
Yep, Pfizer took over as the primary jab on May 3, 2021. Sinopharm was dished out from Feb 11, Pfizer from Mar 4 and has since been fiven more than 2x as often (52 million doses vs 21 million – Moderna and AZ have been given 14 million times).
My mother-in-law developed breast cancer, her brother died of stomach cancer and her son had a Downs baby, all within a few months. Two colleagues had heart attacks and another developed lymphoma. This was all within a couple of months. It happened about ten years ago, but there must be something in it, right?
“ Deaths should go down after a ‘pandemic’, with all the pull forward effect of weak and old people dying a year or two early”
Not necessarily. Deaths remained high after the 1918 pandemic.
There hasn’t been a drop in still births or fertility in the UK.
The data isn’t being hidden or manipulated. The ONS and NRS publish death data weekly. It’s all available for anyone to study. There is no link between any of the vaccines and increased deaths. There isn’t any statistical analysis that stands up to scrutiny that shows that.
And in the UK, when looking at death data, people are counted as vaccinated from the moment they first receive a vaccine. There is no waiting period so claiming “the traditional data trick of registering vaccinated people as unvaccinated, as familiar in the UK” is incorrect.
There hasn’t been an increase in still births or drop in fertility in the UK.
When I said “partly” I did not mean that vaccination was also partly responsible for the recurrence of excess deaths: lockdown made us, overall, significantly poorer – that and the breakdown of routines and consequential lack of exercise would all contribute to a rise in deaths.
So Chinese vaccines were eventually only one-third of the Peru total – perhaps Peru would have had double the death rate if it had relied totally on the Chinese vaccines! The death rate in EU countries that used Russian vaccines is around 50% higher than those that used BioNTech’s or Moderna’s or AstraZeneca’s.
Nice one, Tim
“Deaths remained high after the 1918 pandemic.”
Which is one of the signals that the inexplicable lethality of the 1918 pandemic wasn’t necessarily down to the circulating virus. More particularly, that the excess deaths were down to people being encouraged to consume the wonder drug aspirin like Smarties. If their flu symptoms didn’t respond to aspirin, they were encouraged to increase the dose.
“In summary, just before the 1918 death spike, aspirin was recommended in regimens now known to be potentially toxic and to cause pulmonary edema and may therefore have contributed to overall pandemic mortality and several of its mysteries. Young adult mortality may be explained by willingness to use the new, recommended therapy and the presence of youth in regimented treatment settings (military). The lower mortality of children may be a result of less aspirin use.”
When the toxicity of chronically high aspirin use was finally recognised, the post-1918 death spike disappeared with it.
It all sounds remarkably similar to events a hundred years later. Covid cases failed to decline after the administration of the Covid vaccines, so the population was urged to queue up for second, third and fourth boosters. And here we are again, with ongoing excess mortality three years after the ‘pandemic’.
john77 – . . . eastern european countries that relied largely on Russian vaccines (e.g. Hungary) have death rates around 50% higher than the UK.
Which death rates? Vaccine related death rates? Covid infection death rates? Total death rates? Excess mortality rates?
Just asking ‘cos lots of apples and oranges get thrown around in these discussions.
“ You might also want to check out data on menstrual irregularities, miscarriages and still births,”
The More or Less Team have debunked the miscarriages claims.
Nice one, Tim
I wonder if Mr Worstall enjoyed disturbing ant nests as a child?
“The More or Less Team have debunked the miscarriages claims.”
Ha ha ha. Ahahahahaha ha ha ha. Ha ha. Ha. Ha ha ha.
The More or Less Team have debunked the miscarriages claims.
From which one should deduce…
Paul in Somerset
I have to admit I didn’t know about the aspirin effect. Thanks, I shall look that up.
But we mustn’t forget that the Spanish Flu was exacerbated by troops bringing it home with them. Mass demobilisation of the British Army didn’t really get going until into 1919. It spread through India by exactly this medium and also Chinese and Indian labourers ( of whom there were thousands on the Western Front ) took it home with them ( remember that they were often handling corpses and not everyone died of getting shot/blown up ).
I wonder if there is a difference between the Allied and Central Powers death rates ?
It’s probably better to go to the original ONS information rather than a newspaper’s summary. See https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines#deaths-by-vaccination-status
And, of course, nobody cares how many people die as a result of a vaccine for a disease that almost everyone will catch. What we care about is the difference in deaths between the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Didn’t they recently claim that the trend of excess deaths had slowed/stopped when what had happened was the 1st wave of pandemic deaths were now being rolled into the averages
Ottokring: The key thing is that Bayer’s patent on aspirin expired in 1917, so by 1918 the world became awash with drug for the first time. Factories manufacturing the drug sprang up worldwide. The flu season arrived, and when young people were dying despite suddenly having access to as much of this wonder drug as they wanted, it was taken to be evidence that the flu that season must be a novel virus of unprecedented lethality.
You read some of the reports from that period, as quoted in that article from the Journal of Clinical Infectious Diseases I linked to above, and they’re blood-curdling, e.g.,
“In February 1919…Edward’s fever kept getting higher and higher…aspirin…was given to him by the 1/2-handful over and over…Edward sweated through his mattress…Dr.…could not save his patient.”
—Clella B. Gregory, Pandemic Influenza Storybook, US Department of Health and Human Services 
“ The More or Less Team have debunked the miscarriages claims.
From which one should deduce…”
The rest of his claims need to be treated with suspicion.
Like the rest of the BBC, the ‘More or Less team’ are funded by the government (via the tax it collects from old ladies) along with helpful donations from Mr Gates, but we can certainly trust it to investigate the actions of the government and Mr Gates with rigour and determination.
Maybe More or Less is selective in the fights it picks, but that doesn’t mean the ones it does pick aren’t valid. As a long time listener I’m not aware of them being forced to apologise for getting something wrong.
300,000 vaxx deaths in the US according to these chaps. No doubt they could refine their estimates if the Fed and State governments would release their bloody records. If you need an FOI request to get data, the govt is hiding stuff.
It is not true or even possible that the vaccines are injuring and killing people, which is why the US and UK and all other major governments have given the vaccine manufacturers legal indemnity so that they can’t be sued for injuring and killing… er hang on that doesn’t make sense.
I’m not aware of them being forced to apologise for getting something wrong.
Now I know you’re pulling our leg! The BBC? Forced to apologise? Getting something wrong?
Bless you for the generous old-fashioned soul you are, BiND.
Reported covid deaths, which are significantly higher than UK “Excess Deaths” (which include covid deaths).
So I am comparing apples with apples, but it would still be the case with oranges as the Russian-vaccine-using countries’ death rate oranges are bigger than UK death rates grapefruits.
Declining fertility – Gates must be delighted. Job done.
Was it that the Russian vaccine didn’t offer as much protection as western vaccines or that it was better at killing people? Why do you think Poland had a lower death rate than the UK but a much lower vaccine uptake? The UK has over 70% of people with at least three doses, whereas Poland managed 56% with at least one (despite a bribe lottery). It’s almost as if the picture is quite muddy and there might be too many variables at play to pin down vaccines as a win or lose.
If we look at the last couple of years excess mortality across Europe (UK not included):
it’s interesting to compare Hungary with Germany.
And Sweden with everywhere else.
Hard to compare anything with that chart PJF, it’s just relative % changes for individual months.
What are you seeing?
Doshi et al:
“The pivotal covid-19 vaccine trials used a primary endpoint of lab-confirmed, symptomatic covid-19.8-11 Not all covid cases, however, factored into the estimate of vaccine efficacy. Investigators did not begin counting cases until participants were at least 14 days (7 days for Pfizer) past completion of the dosing regimen, a timepoint public health officials subsequently termed “fully vaccinated.”12 The rationale for excluding cases occurring before the start of this “case-counting window” was not provided in trial protocols–and legitimacy of excluding post-randomisation events has long been debated13—however, one Pfizer post-marketing document states that in the early period post-vaccination, “the vaccine has not had sufficient time to stimulate the immune system.”14
In randomised trials, applying the “fully vaccinated” case counting window to both vaccine and placebo arms is easy. But in cohort studies, the case-counting window is only applied to the vaccinated group. Because unvaccinated people do not take placebo shots, counting 14 days after the second shot is simply inoperable. This asymmetry, in which the case-counting window nullifies cases in the vaccinated group but not in the unvaccinated group, biases estimates. As a result, a completely ineffective vaccine can appear substantially effective—48% effective in the example shown in Table 1. (The placebo data in Table 1 comes from the Pfizer Phase III randomised trial, and is the assumed case counts for the unvaccinated group in a counterfactual observational study occurring simultaneously; this setup illustrates the potential size of a case-counting window bias in a real-world setting as well as why this bias does not exist in a randomised trial.).”
If you’re interested, it comes from here:
Expand it to 36 months to include 2020 and download into excel. As each number is a monthly variation from the respective 2015-19 average, then – simplistically – one can add three columns for each year on the right (sum 12 months/12) and then add a 4th column for the three year total (sum 3 years just created/3). From which you can (roughly) see the total yearly excess by country (2020-2022) and the average yearly excess for those 3 years.
Sweden wins comfortably, followed by Norway then Denmark. Northerns generally do better than southerns or easterns, but with a number of variations.
Whatever happened in 2020 and 2021, I might have expected 2022 to come back down (at least materially). It hasn’t. If you average 2020/2021 and then compare that with 2022 (we’re now generally post lockdowns and firmly into the Omicron sniffles) there are some interesting numbers/variations that really should warrant a lot more investigation.
[ If Tim had the facility, I’d upload it (or even just post a formatted table), but it’s easy enough to recreate/expand quickly if you’re interested.]
. . . it’s just relative % changes for individual months.
No, read the title and short blurb at the top of the chart to understand what it’s showing.
@Interested: So basically the vaccine trials worked like this: ‘We’ll jab you with something thats supposed to stop you getting X. But if you get X within 14 days of being jabbed then we won’t count that as a failure of the drug. And if by some chance being jabbed actually increases your chance of getting X in the first 14 days then the trial will not catch that fact at all.’
I wish I had time to engage on this.
Unfortunately I am knee deep in work and a ludicrous legal fight.
So I will for once pull rank and say this is the least effective and most dangerous vaccine that has been pushed for public use in over a century. The damage it has done in terms of direct side effects, compared to any vaccine ever is catastrophic. Mostly because it was used too widely.
The unprecedented coercion that was used to force it on people was utterly unacceptable and has destroyed immense amounts of trust in public health, vaccination, and medicine more generally for at least a generation. The costs of that drastically outweigh the direct impact of covid vaccine side effects.
The unprecedented NPIs deployed against this slightly worse than average cold virus have wrought lasting damage on our society and culture.
This vaccine of limited duration of efficacy is fit only for those at massively elevated risk of death from covid. Those same people are at massively elevated risk of death from any respiratory infection.
Jim – yes, exactly.
BitFR – yes, exactly. The only question is to what extent it was deliberate.
Thanks, Bi4R – good luck wit your legal issues.