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What understanding!

What should the govermment do about small boats

One answer being:

Rejoin the EU so that the Dublin regulation can be used to require asylum seekers to apply in the first safe country they get to

But Dublin isn’t the source of that. The source is the original international law. The EU, with freedom of movement, means that that can’t be imposed. Dublin then says it can, again, be imposed despite free movement.

We’ve therefore got that right being outside the EU.

14 thoughts on “What understanding!”

  1. Bloke in the Fourth Reich

    Freedom of movement allegedly applies only to EU citizens.

    And now we have re-introduced restrictions on that in order to prevent certain non-EU citizens from moving freely.

    I propose the libertarian solution, namely whoever you are and wherever you come from, your housing, clothing, welfare, feeding, pocket money, is entirely your problem. No government and no local authority is responsible for providing these things to you. At the same time I would eliminate all restrictions on ability to work for refugees and those with pending refugee status. Anyone legally, or possibly legally, in the country, should be allowed and encouraged to pay their own way.

    I know, I’m fired, and probably a racist nazi.

  2. Bloke in the Fourth Reich

    Incidentally the work thing will work even when you have vast numbers of people to deal with.

    If it had been clear in 2015 that Syrians could stay until shit calmed down there, and would then have to go back, you could have sold 10x the number of refugees to the German people. If you made an exception and granted long-term residency rights ONLY for those who had settled of their own accord, got work, etc, that would also be 100% sellable to most Germans. Instead Merkel tried and (predictably) failed at the forcible integration of over a million people.

  3. Agree with BiFR.
    Government should not grant refugee status to a single asylum claimant ever again. Getting them to make the determinations of who a country wants against politically chosen criteria is daft compared to the obvious alternatives.
    Of letting individuals, employers, community groups, mosques etc decide if they want to help immigrants using their own money.

    Only job government should take on is issuing work permits stamped No Recourse To Public Funds, NI numbers and making sure criminals don’t enter.

  4. Starfish: are lions in pedaloes sea lions?

    I’d go with Dr Evil on this “Sharks with fricking lasers on their heads”

  5. I disagree. Anybody fleeing the horrors of France should immediately be granted full asylum in the UK and even given some freedomgelt. If the people fleeing France, however, claim they have come from somewhere else, they are prima face clearly lying, which automatically invalidates all application. Determine the route they have taken and, in accordance with international law and requirements, transport them to the first safe country they travelled through. Greece/Turkey for Syrians, Italy for Lybians, Albania for Albanians.

    On the point of huge backlogs, I have never seen any job vacancies advertised to recruit the people needed to deal with it.

  6. Well, insofar as nations have rights (they have privileges), you’ve had the right simply by virtue of having enough guns to make it stick.

    International law isn’t really even law, just some agreements on behavior that more nations routinely violate than uphold.

  7. BiFR. You seem to be unaware of the history of the IV Reich. That was exactly what what the Germans were told about the gastarbeiters. Except, of course, they lied to.

  8. BiS, but at least the Turkish in the fourth Reich in the 1970’s invented the doner kebab. I have yet to see anything positive from any of the other freeloaders highly skilled refugees from oppression. Or, to be honest, the myriad moslems who have invaded since the 1960’s.

  9. Bloke in the Fourth Reich

    bis, you’ll note the subtle difference that people who can stand on their own two feet should be treated differently to the freeloaders.

    Germany is not the worse for its Turkish and Italian communities. You can argue if it is for the better or not, but it certainly isn’t for the worse.

    The key difference is the motivation for moving and the values brought, and whether those are instilled in later generations.

  10. . . . you’ll note the subtle difference that people who can stand on their own two feet should be treated differently to the freeloaders.

    That “subtle difference” won’t stop the invasions. These are primarily economic migrants we’re talking about and they mostly won’t mind if they are left to their own devices. There are literally hundreds of millions of them. We cannot, and should not, accommodate them.

    No. Non. Nein.

  11. Per PJF – These channel boat people are NOT refugees – not one of them. They were only refugees on arrival in the first safe country they came to. By moving west they then became economic migrants / chancers seeking to suck on the tit of British largesse /generosity. France has its bad points but no-one is in danger of torture, death, starvation, rape – not from the French population at least.
    However this latest attempt by this feeble ‘Tory’ government will fail like the Rwanda relocation idea.

  12. It’s not a matter of whether Germany’s better or worse for it gastarbeiters. That’s irrelevant. It’s that the Germans were told that they’d come for a limited period to fill a temporary labour shortage & then depart. I believe 10 years was widely believed. They were duped. They were allowed to bring their families & settle & it became a fait accompli. They were told they’re here now & you can’t expect them to leave.
    And governments do this every time with immigration. The UK gov has. The Irish, the Windrush, Ugandan Asians, the Pakistanis, East Europeans… The majority did not want them & were lied to. “It will be limited numbers” & “they will be a benefit” have been the usual lies. You really think the Windrush was a benefit to the UK? It’s one of the reason for the stagnation of the ’60s & 70s. Without that cheap labour in the service sectors, competition for labour would have forced industry to modernise both plant & working practises. And for a dividend, their children gave you Brixton & Broadwater Farm & have now turned parts of your cities into war zones. And one can say much the same for all the rest of them. I remember my time in Germany. “You want to get anything illegal, dubious or bent, go find a Turk.”

  13. It’s not just that PJF. They’ll stand on their own feet, all right. And step on yours.
    Something inevitably happens with immigration. There will always be a higher proportion of criminals amongst immigrants than in the places that they’ve left. Entirely predictable. Because they couldn’t hack it legitimately there, had less reason to stay & regard their new home as fresh grazing ground. The dislocation suits them. It’s happened with every wave to anywhere. The UK ended up with more Irish criminals than Ireland. The Mafia in the States. London’s very own Cypriot community. My very own outpost of British criminality here. The list is endless.

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